[Latheesh]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

No offence but without reading anything - the image looks as if its a bunch of recyclable garbage bags!
Why have they packed them like this?

Engines are transported using reusable and returnable pallets. One pallet will have mounting provisions for bolting few engines based on the volume and type of trucks used. That picture shows exactly the same, few engines mounted on a pallet, ready to be shipped to the car assembly plant. Polythene covers are to protect engines from dust during transportation. These pallets are shipped back to the engine plant and they reuse it.

[vivekgk]

Originally Posted by power ranger

What I am trying to say here is - can anyone tell me what is the advantage Nexon offers over something like Ertiga, which has an advantage of atleast accommodating 4 adults and 2 kids ( not to mention the Maruti herd mentality and apparent peace of mind )?

Let me try.

Firstly, you're comparing apples to oranges. But the number one advantage would be the image that an urban crossover has over an MUV. Ertiga doesnt really have an aspirational value. It's a people mover, plain and simple. It lacks a certain class. It is very practical, but it isn't exactly pretty. It's the same reason the Kwid is doing so well despite being priced over the Alto 800. Looks matter.

The Ertiga sold well for a while, as did the Mobilio, but now it's been relegated to the taxi trade, along with the Lodgy, while Honda has given up on the Mobilio altogether. Ertiga now has the highest discounts in the entire Maruti range.

Summing up, I'd say the Nexon offers the same advantage that the Brezza offers over an Ertiga, plus better interiors and more features. Personally I think the Nexon scores in everything but brand value over the Brezza.

[jayded]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

I would gladly take the trouble to take a good car 400 kms once every 9600kms rather than drive a bad car 9990 kms just so that the service station is just 10kms away! If you prefer the latter, I wouldn't disagree with your choice! It's just a matter of personal preferences.

"Disclaimer - I totally acknowledge the advantages in Nexon including the best in class quality, interiors, the excellent music system, build quality (probable), best in class engines etc."

I think you have answered your concern yourself. You still bought your car with those panel gaps, because it was something you could easily ignore in the bigger scheme of things.

People who want to buy a particular car will buy it mostly for it's merits, and not really turn it down for something like a few millimeters extra panel gap, and that too when it's something you noticed so hypercritically by rerunning a video review multiple times and taking screenshots. People usually talk about panel gaps and fit and finish after experiencing the car first hand, and not online though images and videos, when there are multiple photos of the same car floating around, not revealing any such glaring defects to begin with.

Being a Fiat owner, I am sure you would've perfected the disclaimer game by now.

P.S: I am not a Tata owner, nor have I been one. Just couldn't stop myself from saying as much, seeing the critics giving in-depth analysis of a car which they have not yet seen in person.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by jayded

People who want to buy a particular car will buy it mostly for it's merits, and not really turn it down for something like a few millimeters extra panel gap, and that too when it's something you noticed so hypercritically by rerunning a video review multiple times and taking screenshots.

This post of mine had a screnshot to show the brilliant finish on the centre console. Many likes, no one has any issues.

This post of mine had a screenshot where it was first seen pitted against Brezza for a short moment, for the first time in the media drives. Likes only and no issues.

But wait, did you notice panel gaps? And share it on the forum? Now that's "hypercritical" bashing of a product "the critics haven't even seen in person." For sharing the good points, source is not needed. But point out a negetive, it better be from personal experience.

Originally Posted by jayded

People usually talk about panel gaps and fit and finish after experiencing the car first hand, and not online though images and videos, when there are multiple photos of the same car floating around, not revealing any such glaring defects to begin with.

Exactly the point. The fit and finish seems quite inconsistent across the range. Same panels across cars show different finish in different review cars.

Or otherwise you mean to say, others cars are fine so these images are edited? In that case you're welcome to see the videos and cross check yourself!

Originally Posted by jayded

Being a Fiat owner, I am sure you would've perfected the disclaimer game by now.

Just couldn't stop myself from saying as much, seeing the critics giving in-depth analysis of a car which they have not yet seen in person.

Anyways, point beaten to death. Nothing more to contribute and so I'm out (of this panel gaps discussion) Continue with the personal attacks (reference to other posts replied earlier and some ignored), against a post that only had two screnshots against TATA. . And let me not disappoint with the disclaimer.

Disclaimer - I totally acknowledge the advantages in Nexon including the best in class quality, interiors, the excellent music system, build quality (probable), best in class engines etc. And readers/ members are requested to use their own discretion on any negetives mentioned.

[jayded]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Anyways, point beaten to death. Nothing more to contribute and so I'm out (of this panel gaps discussion) Continue with the personal attacks, against a post that only had two screnshots against TATA.

I apologize if it came across as a personal attack. I never meant to do that. I was just trying to put my point across, being, it would be kind of unfair to assume that a manufacturer took a "step backwards" in terms of fit and finish based on a couple of photos. Thats when most of the reviewers, who actually experienced the vehicle were happy with the overall quality they saw in the car. I too will stop this discussion to maintain decorum. I do read all your in-depth reviews and test-drives. Would love to read about your impression about the Nexon if you happen to take a test drive.

By the way, that was a Brezza alongside the Nexon, and not an Ecosport.

[RavenAvi]

Fresh spyshots, courtesy my good friend Autospy from Pune.

Two variants noticed - one with roof rails + alloys in dual-tone combo + shorter stubby antenna at rear (possibly an XZ/XZ+) and one without roof rails + plain steel wheels + longer antenna at front (possibly an XE/XM).

[trek]

Tata can get a good advantage on sales if they launch and start delivering Nexon now. The current hype would help them before things get slightly difficult with the Ecosport facelift.

[keeprevving]

Judging by Tata's poor record of launching their products late, makes me think if the case is same with Nexon's launch too. Ford Ecosport facelift is just round the corner. I don't know what is taking them so long. Either TML is aware of Ecosport's launch date, or they are confident to beat competition easily. Let's wait and watch.

[fuelinmyveins]

As predicted, the interest in NEXON has already started to wane.

More than 2 days and not a single post in the thread.

Should have rung some alarm bells at Tata but I guess they are just too bureaucratic to take notice. Even if they plan to reveal prices after clarity on the cess, they should have at least put the vehicles on display and started with customer test-drives.

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by keeprevving

I don't know what is taking them so long

Originally Posted by fuelinmyveins

As predicted, the interest in NEXON has already started to vain.

Says more about our attention span than Tata's competency or engineering chops. For the Nexon, the turnaround time is actually quite short. Aditya's first post on this thread gives us a fair idea of the timelines involved from concept to production. About 3.5 years. That is very good.
Originally, the car was rumored to share the powertrain with the Zest and the Bolt. As you already know, that is no longer the case, and whether you choose to think of the powertrains as brand new or evolutions (adding a turbo for the petrol, and a cylinder for the diesel), testing and tuning engines takes time. And that is just the powertrain, figuring out the tooling/stamping/mass production and testing all takes time.

Sometimes, the timing of the launch works out. You start planning for a product, and you launch it at just the right time. An example of that would be the XUV. And sometimes, the timing does not work out. Rushing a product to market for a company is Tata's position would be more damaging to the brand than releasing a product and selling middling numbers.

By all indications, Tata is in the car business for the longer run. And they are showing tangible signs of progress. The Nexon has shown signs of promise in the video reviews we have seen in this thread, we shall see how things turn out with the long form TBhp review.

I'll finish by pointing out a couple of more things:

a. If you sort the Indian Car Scene thread by number of views, the Nexon shows up number 7 in the list. Even if you adjust for Team-Bhp's own growth and popularity/membership numbers, that is phenomenal.

b. Judging waning of interest based on number of new posts on a thread is foolhardy. All that needs to be said or can be gleaned from information that we have (video reviews/media drive etc.) has already been discussed. The next phase of interest/posts would happen in the Official Review section. For now, I'd recommend patience, and if that's in short supply, heading to a competitor's product by voting with your wallet.

[fuelinmyveins]

Originally Posted by Amartya

Says more about our attention span than Tata's competency or engineering chops. For the Nexon, the turnaround time is actually quite short. Aditya's first post on this thread gives us a fair idea of the timelines involved from concept to production. About 3.5 years. That is very good.
Originally, the car was rumored to share the powertrain with the Zest and the Bolt. As you already know, that is no longer the case, and whether you choose to think of the powertrains as brand new or evolutions (adding a turbo for the petrol, and a cylinder for the diesel), testing and tuning engines takes time. And that is just the powertrain, figuring out the tooling/stamping/mass production and testing all takes time.

A) I have voted with my wallet twice and burnt my fingers:-
1. Bought TATA ZEST petrol which I have driven over 65000 Kms in just two years and loved every bit of it. Now I wish to sell it as I absolutely need a diesel car but resale value is absolutely disastrous.

2. Invested in Tata motors stock pinning my hopes on their effort only to see it's value erode by 9% on a single day.

B) The market goes by what it can recall that's why companies spend considerable money on brand recall and if TATA needs to be successful it needs to stay relevant in customer's minds and not fall off the radar. If TATA can't manage that then it's the failure of their marketing team.

C) It's based on an age old vista platform. Agreed that engines are new but if TATA didn't have the foresight of developing their own engine lineup before then it's their problem. Keeping that in mind almost 4 years in development is a long time.

D) I don't care about number of views on the thread, if a thread with such large number of posts is falling onto the second page it only shows that member's interest is going down. Just like in the case of Fiat where initial hoopla leads to long lull. If I have to wait for my pizza too long then after some time I just loose my appetite for it.

E) when it come to marketing , timing is everything thing. If TATA keeps on waiting for all the stars to align then they will keep on delaying their launches where as the competition will move in and block them out.

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by fuelinmyveins

1. Bought TATA ZEST petrol which I have driven over 65000 Kms in just two years and loved every bit of it. Now I wish to sell it as I absolutely need a diesel car but resale value is absolutely disastrous.

If you are financially savvy enough to invest in equity shares, you can also do a financial break even analysis of the price you will need to get on the sale of the Zest and get a diesel car instead. I expect you to discover that no car of any make at the same purchase price would have retained value to the extent necessary for the breakeven, unless you are doing 100,000+ kilometres in a year.

I would now just stick with the Zest, and use it for at least 5 years, unless petrol isn't available where you live/drive.

[discoverwild]

Originally Posted by fuelinmyveins

A) I have voted with my wallet twice and burnt my fingers:-
1. Bought TATA ZEST petrol which I have driven over 65000 Kms in just two years and loved every bit of it. Now I wish to sell it as I absolutely need a diesel car but resale value is absolutely disastrous.

2. Invested in Tata motors stock pinning my hopes on their effort only to see it's value erode by 9% on a single day.

1. I actually find it amusing that you love the vehicle but now you want to change it and you find resale to be disastrous. First, if you were planning on anything above 20k KM's per year, a diesel always made better sense. Your choice of a petrol was flawed.

Second, it's a well known fact that resale value of Tata cars are bad, though I haven't found it to be so. It's an assumption most of the time. Check your purchase price Vs that of it's competition and then their resale values. The margin that seems big will actually negate itself.

Third, any car you buy will depreciate the highest in the first three years, after which it evens out. Typically cars will begin to hold their prices around the 4th year onwards. A 5 lakh car will depreciate 50-60k straight out of the showroom, about 1-1.2 lakhs by the first year, 80k-1 lakh the second year and 60-80k by the third year. That's roughly 2.5 lakhs or 50% in the first three years, give or take a few.

I paid 6L for my diesel Vista almost 6 years back and have done 1.2L kms. On a daily basis, I carry 100-300 kgs of materials that I ship out to customers. I can still get in the range of 2.5-2.75L for a reasonably maintained (never babied) car. The Swift was selling at a lakh more at the time (similar variant). Today, it might sell for 3.25-3.5L if maintained really well. When people read that a 6 year old Maruti sold for almost a lakh more than a corresponding Tata, they fail to notice the input prices and relative mileage.

I always write-off the investment I make in a car, because I make the utmost use of it. So, I hardly bother about resale value or the lack of it. I plan to use the Vista for at least another year or two, raking up another 60k kms before looking for a change, by which time, the car would have paid for itself in full and then some.

2. Regarding the stocks, that could happen with any company. Win some, lose some. Three years ago, my friend made 72k in profits on an investment of 45k in a single day. Over the last three years, even with a capital of 3.5L, he has barely managed 40k in a month consistently.

[fuelinmyveins]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

I would now just stick with the Zest, and use it for at least 5 years, unless petrol isn't available where you live/drive.

Originally Posted by discoverwild

1. I actually find it amusing that you love the vehicle but now you want to change it and you find resale to be disastrous. First, if you were planning on anything above 20k KM's per year, a diesel always made better sense. Your choice of a petrol was flawed.


2. Regarding the stocks, that could happen with any company. Win some, lose some. Three years ago, my friend made 72k in profits on an investment of 45k in a single day. Over the last three years, even with a capital of 3.5L, he has barely managed 40k in a month consistently.

Ouch. That was savage and now I need a burnol

Sir if I would've had even a slightest inkling of the future where in, a change in my job profile would result in such a drastic shift in car usage pattern, I would have definitely gone for the diesel.

Secondly I brought up the point of stock investment just to show that as an investor I want TATA to do well and why I'M concerned about certain aspects of their marketing.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by fuelinmyveins

Sir if I would've had even a slightest inkling of the future where in, a change in my job profile would result in such a drastic shift in car usage pattern, I would have definitely gone for the diesel.

However, at this point - their suggestion makes perfect sense.

It's better to retain the Zest petrol than make the switch to a diesel Nexon. The depreciation hit on both the old Zest and the new Nexon will be much more than the amount for petrol required to keep you happy.