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Old 15th April 2022, 11:59   #271
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re: Honda City Hybrid | Unveiled on 14th April 2022

It is a good and genuine effort by Honda by bring in this hybrid. In Indian context, Honda has shown the depth they have in engine and now hybrid technologies and i feel it will be a game changer for Honda in the present context of rising fuel prices and range anxiety with EV. City still has a better brand recognition then Ciaz and bento/Virtus and with correct pricing of closed to 20 lacs it can be a booster for Honda India. With SUV likely next year and a reliability and cost of ownership still among the best, as a proud 3rd gen honda city owner, I just want Honda to come out of its slumber and with right product mix, it can slowly but surely get its glory back. All the best to HCIL.
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Old 15th April 2022, 12:03   #272
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re: Honda City Hybrid | Unveiled on 14th April 2022

Honda City e:HEV media drive in the last week of April:

Honda City Hybrid -possible 1000+km in one petrol tank!


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Old 15th April 2022, 14:26   #273
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re: Honda City Hybrid | Unveiled on 14th April 2022

Quote:
Originally Posted by kushagra452 View Post
I did a quick "time to break even" back of the envelope calculation. Assumptions made are as follows:

1. Fuel price: Rs.100/L and Rs.130/L
2. Honda City ZX CVT ex-showroom price: Rs. 15L
3. ZX CVT Mileage: 18 Kms/L
4. eHEV mileage: 25 Kms/L
5. Not factoring in the cost of battery replacement in this calculation.

Hope this helps!

Attachment 2296704

Attachment 2296727
Hey thanks for this. Can you check the second table row #1 though? Seems like 'years to break even' is inversely proportional to price premium in this row.
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Old 15th April 2022, 15:07   #274
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re: Honda City Hybrid | Unveiled on 14th April 2022

Quote:
Originally Posted by kushagra452 View Post
I did a quick "time to break even" back of
I think your assumption of City ZX mileage is wrong. In Mumbai city I don't get more that 8-9 kpl in my Yaris. Considering my highway runs, I average about 11.5 to 12 kpl in a 50:50 City to Highway cycle.

eHV s expected to give an overall mileage of 25 kpl, so the numbers would change drastically

Last edited by Palio_2005 : 15th April 2022 at 15:10.
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Old 15th April 2022, 15:31   #275
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re: Honda City Hybrid | Unveiled on 14th April 2022

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raskolnikov View Post
Hey thanks for this. Can you check the second table row #1 though? Seems like 'years to break even' is inversely proportional to price premium in this row.
Thanks for pointing out the error. Have corrected the values. The updated table reads as follows:

Honda City Hybrid | Unveiled on 14th April 2022-screenshot-20220415-114023.jpg

Dear moderators: Kindly update or delete the second table in post #270. Kindly use the updated table in this post. Thanks!

Last edited by kushagra452 : 15th April 2022 at 15:39.
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Old 15th April 2022, 15:33   #276
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re: Honda City Hybrid | Unveiled on 14th April 2022

Quote:
Originally Posted by Palio_2005 View Post
I think your assumption of City ZX mileage is wrong.
Thanks for your feedback. You're right. However, I have taken the claimed ARAI mileage for both ZX CVT and eHEV variants. The real life figures will surely differ. I took the mileage figures from Carwale.com.

Last edited by kushagra452 : 15th April 2022 at 15:35.
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Old 15th April 2022, 15:49   #277
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re: Honda City Hybrid | Unveiled on 14th April 2022

Quote:
Originally Posted by kushagra452 View Post
I did a quick "time to break even" back of the envelope calculation. Assumptions made are as follows:

3. ZX CVT Mileage: 18 Kms/L
4. eHEV mileage: 25 Kms/L
The main issue with the calculation is the assumed mileage of the City ZX CVT. The latest Autocar issue has road tested the Slavia and City petrol cars and found the real world city mileage of the regular City petrol CVT to be 12 kmpl.

So now, for someone with a 15000 km per month urban commute, they will need 650 additional litres of petrol per month with the City ZX CVT as compared to the eHEV. Assuming mid-term petrol costs of Rs 120 per litre over the next 3-4 years, we are talking of an incremental cost of Rs. 78,000 per year for the ZX-CVT. Now, if the price difference is 3 lakhs, break-even will happen in less than 4 years for someone with this type of typical city commute, and from year 4 to year 8, one saves over 3 lakhs. Ideally one should sell the car after the 8 year battery warranty period, avoiding any costs for battery replacement.

Now for those with longer commutes, the break-even drops dramatically. For someone with 30K kilometres a year in urban running, the break-even happens in less than 2 years.

What this analysis does not consider is the value of the additional features in the eHEV, like the advanced safety features such as adaptive cruise cruise control, lane keeping assist, rear disc brake, electric parking brake etc.

In reality, I expect the on-road price difference to be around 5 lakhs, so it will make sense only for those with longer commutes or those who just love all the mechanical, electric and electronic tech in the car and is ready to shell out a fat premium. Hond expects only 10% of the City's sales ro come from the eHEV, which confirms to me their intent to price it at a hefty premium.
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Old 15th April 2022, 15:53   #278
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re: Honda City Hybrid | Unveiled on 14th April 2022

Quote:
Originally Posted by 84.monsoon View Post
Now for those with longer commutes, the break-even drops dramatically. For someone with 30K kilometres a year in urban running, the break-even happens in less than 2 years.

What this analysis does not consider is the value of the additional features in the eHEV, like the advanced safety features such as adaptive cruise cruise control, lane keeping assist, rear disc brake, electric parking brake etc.
I was about to say something similar regarding your calculations. But let me also add- I think with the kind of technology that Honda is bringing, the fuel economy will have less variations across traffic conditions as it is mostly expected to be EV powered during that time.
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Old 15th April 2022, 16:18   #279
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re: Honda City Hybrid | Unveiled on 14th April 2022

I have a query. What happens if the battery is fully charged when running, as in specific conditions like going down hill or stopping for long in red light?

Will the engine stop itself? If not, will it lead to wastage of energy?

Specially in hill driving when you need extra energy to climb up, the same is recovered via regen when going down, if the battery is large enough as in pure EVs. I see this may not happen in EHEV.

Last edited by fordday : 15th April 2022 at 16:19.
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Old 15th April 2022, 17:57   #280
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re: Honda City Hybrid | Unveiled on 14th April 2022

Quote:
Originally Posted by 84.monsoon View Post
The main issue with the calculation is the assumed mileage of the City ZX CVT. The latest Autocar issue has road tested the Slavia and City petrol cars and found the real world city mileage of the regular City petrol CVT to be 12 kmpl.
This is somewhat true, have rarely see ANY petrol sedan crossing 12kmpl in heavy Chennai traffic, gets worse during peak time! This is probably where hybrids offer 50% better FE, will need to wait for the actual numbers though.

For someone like me, who drives around 30k km/year, hybrids could be a great option. Had ideas of getting an EV, but my friend who lives in the US sold his small electric car for a Hybrid SUV, for him the range anxiety was just too much to deal with, even though they have one of the most advanced charging infrastructure. I would fare much worse than him with an EV here.
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Old 15th April 2022, 18:28   #281
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re: Honda City Hybrid | Unveiled on 14th April 2022

Thank you Honda for bringing this Hybrid. With the raising costs of both Petrol and Diesel, this Hybrid makes it own case for Honda's sustenance in the market.
  • Its a simple hybrid, so should be easy to maintain.
  • Lighter on pocket and does break even quicker as the mileage goes up. Similar to the Diesel's case some 10 years back.
  • Some cool technology like ADAS. Very useful in Highways, especially during night drives.
  • 80% of annual driving is in City like conditions with an average speed of 30KMPH for many of us here and so, this hybrid should be able to cater that 80% drives with ease.
  • May end up late ~5 minutes on a highway competing with those enthusiasts driving TSI's & Turbo Petrol's. But, one look into the DTE will give more happiness along with monetary gains.
  • Very few pack the entire home for a two day vacation. So the reduction in the boot space shouldn't be a major deciding factor. After all, the current CSUV and wannabe SUV's have lesser boot space.
  • Happy that Honda decided to provide a space saver instead Puncture repair kit.

This the car, I would want to switch from my Jazz(D).

EV is success, only when it takes same time as filling petrol to fully charge the batteries. Until then, its Halleluiah to Hybrids.
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Old 15th April 2022, 19:10   #282
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re: Honda City Hybrid | Unveiled on 14th April 2022

Press Release of the Honda City e:HEV:


Honda City Hybrid | Unveiled on 14th April 2022-1.jpg
Honda City Hybrid | Unveiled on 14th April 2022-2.jpg
Honda City Hybrid | Unveiled on 14th April 2022-3.jpg
Honda City Hybrid | Unveiled on 14th April 2022-4.jpg

Last edited by volkman10 : 15th April 2022 at 19:13.
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Old 15th April 2022, 22:14   #283
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re: Honda City Hybrid | Unveiled on 14th April 2022

Here's another stab at the cost-efficiency table with different assumptions.

Given that the HEV maintainance cost is going to be higher for sure.... not to mention there might be an expensive battery replacement at the 8-10 year mark, the break-even point will be higher than this.

I think it'll be the safety features - honda sensing etc that push people toward buying this car rather than the cost efficiency. Heart over mind!
Attached Thumbnails
Honda City Hybrid | Unveiled on 14th April 2022-ayfl2ti.png  


Last edited by Alterlife : 15th April 2022 at 22:20. Reason: clarity
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Old 15th April 2022, 22:22   #284
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re: Honda City Hybrid | Unveiled on 14th April 2022

Quote:
Originally Posted by fordday View Post
What happens if the battery is fully charged when running, as in specific conditions like going down hill or stopping for long in red light?

Will the engine stop itself? If not, will it lead to wastage of energy?
Basically you do not have much of control on the exact operation of the engine. You only have limited and indirect control over it. Like for example if you drive with a heavy right foot, then the engine will be running longer, and also at higher speeds, but if you drive with a very light foot, the engine will only be occassionally on to top up the battery. Its all managed electronically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alterlife View Post
Here's another stab at the cost-efficiency table with different assumptions.

Given that the HEV maintainance cost is going to be higher for sure.... not to mention there might be an expensive battery replacement at the 8-10 year mark. .
Quote:
Originally Posted by kushagra452 View Post
Thanks for pointing out the error. Have corrected the values. The updated table reads as follows:
Thanks for the number crunching guys. The only positive aspect of the hybrid is that you feel mentally better with the higher FE, and also might get some brownie points in case NGT or some authority decides to clamp down on ICE cars in the future. The rest, ie wrt economics, performance etc there is not much to gain here.
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Old 15th April 2022, 22:35   #285
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re: Honda City Hybrid | Unveiled on 14th April 2022

ASEAN N-CAP 5 star equivalent? I hope this is not another '2 African elephant' kind of thing. Is Honda indirectly claiming that they would achieve 5 star in GNCAP.
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