[aaggoswami]

Originally Posted by AlokSriva

Am not sure what is the basis of your comment on FE of Fiesta.. my petrol 1.6 Fiesta returns minimum of 11-11.5 kmpl in city driving (bangalore's). Please don't take shots in air..

I have seen that Fiesta 1.6 in A'bad and Rajkot ( where my relatives own this car and find A.S & S. good ) the car delivers the same efficiency as you have mentioned. And father's boss 77bhp G2HC delivers 13-13.5 kmpl in the same cities.
So it is a good enough gain.

And from my above reply I meant that the fuel efficiency might go down from G2HC's good levels down to the level of SX4 and Fiesta. Both, SX4 and Fiesta owners have in general reported around 11-12kmpl in city driving.

And fuel efficiency depends upon many things. So I was not blaming Fiesta in short.
My basic point is still the same. The high specific output Honda motors are not able to deliver bottom end juice, so this results in poor fuel efficiency for city driving. Accord, despite having a relatively ( by Indian standards ) has big motor, still from 2K rpm to 4K rpm, G2HC VTEC feels faster.

But here, both Accord and Civic are not having long stroke engines, but G3HC has a very long stroke engine, so the torque delivery might not be a problem, but owing to some weight increase, there might be a drop in fuel efficiency.
This is same as G13 and G16 offered by Suzuki. Baleno has great toruqe, but Swift/Esteem and Original Zen are famous for poor bottom end torque.

[filcord]

Was just looking through the specs and prices of the G3HC and the SX4.

Ex-showroom Goa for SMT version is 8.35L, while SX4Zxi with leather is at 7.66. I believe it has everything the SMT has, and more, leather seats/steering, alloys, 6-spk CD system, climate control.

Now I took my own running as the base.
Assuming 14kpl for the Honda, and 11 kpl for the SX4, running 15000km per year, the Honda will make more economic sense after almost 5 years, by which time I would be ready to sell the car.

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by Su-47

What's EPS?
I know of EPS as Electric Power Steering. Does the HPS pump put so much load on the engine that it affects FE figures?

Yup, same EPS. No other reason for switching to EPS but FE. Everyone is doing it. Good for at least 1-2 mpg.

[jerish666]

In the sept Autocar India issue TD of ANHC they mentioned the tyre is 175/65 R15 and rear they mentioned is 285/35 R18.What does that mean?

[GTO]

Originally Posted by jerish666

What does that mean?

That means its a misprint.

[amit]

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

SX4 owners have in general reported around 11-12kmpl in city driving.

That's too high a figure. I have a feeling that the figures are being inflated by the owners for whatever reason.

In my SX4's case,

-single person.
-70% highway driving.
-Driven normally. Not focussing entirely on FE and not focussing entirely on redlining the car in every gear.
-A/C on 100%
-Tyre pressure at 28psi all round. (Against recommended 33psi)

It's been 11 months of driving the car now. Best average monthly FE was 12.65kmpl in Feb 2008 and worst was 10.80kmpl in June 08.

Driven similarly, my Palio S10's best performance has been 12.73kmpl in Feb 07 and worst of 11.61 in November 06. Palio's air pressure is maintained at 26psi against the recommended 29psi.

Having said that, when comparing mileage between the other C segment sedans and SX4, we have to take into account the poorer aerodynamics of the SX4 due to it's height and the bigger 16" tyres in the Zxi variant too.

[filcord]

Originally Posted by amit

That's too high a figure. I have a feeling that the figures are being inflated by the owners for whatever reason.

In my SX4's case, . . .
-Tyre pressure at 28psi all round. (Against recommended 33psi)

It's been 11 months of driving the car now. Best average monthly FE was 12.65kmpl in Feb 2008 and worst was 10.80kmpl in June 08.

Your tyre pressure is much much too low, and potentially very dangerous if you drive at above 60 kph for long periods of time, as the constant flexing of the soft tyre can lead to a blow-out. Besides which your mileage will suffer by at least 1.5-2 kpl. Always use at least the recommended pressure, and you can even go to 35 psi without any issues (except the ride of course).

[autoenthusiast]

One other thing about tyre pressure. I always used to fill air via the digital filling air station that they have at the Indian oil pumps. I recently picked up a digital pressure gauge and found that the petrol pump filling stations gauge was miscallibrated and there was an actual difference of 5PSI. So if I filled 30 PSI at the pump, it was actually 25PSI. Darn, it really helps to have your own pressure gauge.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by amit

when comparing mileage between the other C segment sedans and SX4, we have to take into account the poorer aerodynamics of the SX4 due to it's height and the bigger 16" tyres in the Zxi variant too.

Effective outside dia of the tyres would be same across all variants irrespective of the rim size. IMO wheel diameter doesnt have influence on FE anyway but the tyre width would have.

[Eddy]

Originally Posted by autoenthusiast

One other thing about tyre pressure. I always used to fill air via the digital filling air station that they have at the Indian oil pumps. I recently picked up a digital pressure gauge and found that the petrol pump filling stations gauge was miscallibrated and there was an actual difference of 5PSI. So if I filled 30 PSI at the pump, it was actually 25PSI. Darn, it really helps to have your own pressure gauge.

But how do you ensure that your own gauge is correct, especially if it is some unbranded chinese ones ?

Edit: I don't mean that yours is a local one, I was talking about the ones flooding the markets.

[freddie]

Post edited by the Team-BHP Support : Please do NOT use more than 2 smilies per post.

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Pray tell me why do these foreign car companies shortchange the Indian consumer and why do we meekly accept.

Like these photographs evidently portray that Honda is no exception to that fact, the new Honda City sold elsewhere indeed does come with Climate Control and some additional buttons on the steering wheel (amongst the first few things that struck me, I haven’t scrutinized and compared it in detail with the Indian variant and I am sure there will be many more differences).

Isn’t the Indian consumer good enough for them or isn’t or money good enough??? Sheer bias and truly unfair trade practice…

Previously many companies have modified their engine capacities to qualify as a small car and avail the nonsensical small car classification passed by the Finance Ministry a couple of years ago but this approach is honestly prejudicial. At least have the decency to launch a model in its entirety and then let the consumer decide if they would like to pay for the same.

I can cite several examples on various car companies that shortchange the Indian consumer but as this is a Honda City thread and I think I have managed to convey my point across and I will stop here. Seems like Honda is extending this bias to most Asian countries as these pictures are for a left-hand drive City signifying it to be an European speck variant.

And to think that we were naïve enough to believe that Honda were (finally) offering us a state of the art, complete, Internationally specked car whereas in actuality they are selling us a car just as per their whims and fancies. Whilst a feature like Climate Control or additional steering wheel mounted control buttons might not seem much as compared to perhaps say if they were shortchanging us with a lower grade engine – it’s the matter of principal that counts.

Point is can and will we do anything about this???

[GeekSrik]

is this thread digressing from original topic?

[autoenthusiast]

Originally Posted by Eddy

But how do you ensure that your own gauge is correct, especially if it is some unbranded chinese ones ?

Edit: I don't mean that yours is a local one, I was talking about the ones flooding the markets.

Well this one is a branded digital pressure gauge that I picked on my trip to the US.

[autoenthusiast]

Originally Posted by freddie

Pray tell me why do these foreign car companies shortchange the Indian consumer and why do we meekly accept.

Like these photographs evidently portray that Honda is no exception to that fact, the new Honda City sold elsewhere indeed does come with Climate Control and some additional buttons on the steering wheel (amongst the first few things that struck me, I haven’t scrutinized and compared it in detail with the Indian variant and I am sure there will be many more differences).

Hello Freddie, the way I look at it, Honda tried to keep the cost of the new model within reasonable limits. It's still a pretty good package, though a bit of a premium charged for it. Knowing Honda, 2 years down the line they would launch an anniversary edition or an updated version with all those features (ACC, Alloy Wheels etc..).

[oss]

Originally Posted by freddie

Pray tell me why do these foreign car companies shortchange the Indian consumer and why do we meekly accept.

Like these photographs evidently portray that Honda is no exception to that fact, the new Honda City sold elsewhere indeed does come with Climate Control and some additional buttons on the steering wheel (amongst the first few things that struck me, I haven’t scrutinized and compared it in detail with the Indian variant and I am sure there will be many more differences).

Isn’t the Indian consumer good enough for them or isn’t or money good enough??? Sheer bias and truly unfair trade practice…

It's not just the auto climate control; it also has all wheel disc brakes, alloys ofcourse and fog lamps in the front.

I can't buy the cost argument as the Indian versions are no cheaper. For the price that is demanded, i think these should come as standard fitment.

We can't really do much as there is not much of competition for City in this segment, and that's what helps them in taking us for a ride