[hserus]

Originally Posted by swift_guy

1. Condition of the Jeep - You have to check thoroughly as 3 Lac is a big amount for an old Jeep and you should expect a decent bodyline and no rusting at all (for this price). If it was restored recently, then 3 Lac is also fine as restoration demands time and involvement and asks for a decent premium in second hand market.

...

My take on this would be : If you are not into serious offroading and want showoff stuff, get a newer model (around 2004-2005) Gypsy or something for 2.5 Lac

It has surely been restored as the OP said it had alloys and a music system.

Now the question is whether a true hardcore jeeper refitted the vehicle, or has just made it a flashy junkheap (oversized tires, parts taken from random other vehicles, body cut into strange shapes etc).

Jeep comfort can certainly be improved to some extent despite sacrificing authenticity if you fit for example a car's front seats with better ergonomic support.

As for me - I would appreciate your advice.

I am not into serious offroading or anything, but some months back I got into a job situation that involves regular commutes between chennai and bangalore whitefield. I want a decent ride for highways, and for those minefield interior roads in and around Whitefield.

Doing this ride in a soft suspensioned ride like my (petrol) Honda Amaze is hell on the body and tyres. Or any other sort of car I think, some of those roads are only fit for bullock carts. And anyway as I said upthread, I was looking for a 2nd (diesel burner) vehicle for the commute, as my family is carless during my bangalore trips.

Maybe a gypsy - or would one of those shorter wheelbase jeeps be just as good? I've never driven anything other than hatches and compact sedans, pure newbie. Not even a ford ecosport or duster type "carlike" baby SUV. And I'm on a limited budget for this, so a jeep of some kind that I make driveable + rock solid reliable in the driving department might be a good idea compared to a 10 lakh ++ vehicle even 2nd hand.

[swift_guy]

Originally Posted by hserus

As for me - I would appreciate your advice.

I am not into serious offroading or anything, but some months back I got into a job situation that involves regular commutes between chennai and bangalore whitefield. I want a decent ride for highways, and for those minefield interior roads in and around Whitefield.

Maybe a gypsy - or would one of those shorter wheelbase jeeps be just as good? I've never driven anything other than hatches and compact sedans, pure newbie. Not even a ford ecosport or duster type "carlike" baby SUV. And I'm on a limited budget for this, so a jeep of some kind that I make driveable + rock solid reliable in the driving department might be a good idea compared to a 10 lakh ++ vehicle even 2nd hand

A petrol Gypsy would drink fuel like anything on your Chennai-Bangalore drives, which is 350 km per side as per Google.

Problem with having a go-anywhere car is the high maintenance. You will very soon realise that instead of spending big bucks on upkeep of a 4x4, you could have managed these drives in a normal low-slung vehicle and replaced parts as and when they gave up.

Pajero, Scorpio and Safari are great choices but will be expensive to maintain as you won't find a <60k km driven car in a 4-5 Lac budget. Xylo, Quanto, Bolero and the like would be also good. Xylo is very car-like (in feel) and can take a lot of beating without breaking into sweat. For highways, body roll might be a problem but you will be impressed with overall maintenance it needs and value this car offers for the price.

Duster is a good softroader, perfect for rural roads (with inclines, potholes, loose gravel, etc.) but I couldn't find one for less than 6 Lac in the used market here. Duster has a good suspension setting and eats up most potholes and bad roads with ease. At the same time, Duster is pretty good at highways also (though 110Ps will offer much relaxed cruising). You can keep a benchmark of 6 Lac (which can get you an Ecosport or Duster or Scorpio) and decide according to it. A benchmark of 2.5 Lac for a Gypsy or Jeep will make all other cars look overpriced. You can also try a Petrol used car (+ add CNG to it) like Punto, but any hatchback won't be able to compensate for an offroader.

Another thing is that commuting on a soft (or even hard) top for work would be daring!! Gypsy or Thar or Jeep, all are fit for an enthusiast (for joyrides or offroad sessions) but not as a daily drive. Your family won't be happy with it incase you change your mind and use Amaze. This SUV and 4x4 things are very very tempting but for those who have the money to spare. Buying one as the only or second car (if you have 2 users) isn't good according to me.

[hserus]

Thanks - so it remains a nice dream is all. How about XUV rather than Xylo? Tried the Xylo and besides the body roll and tractor-sounding engine, it had absurdly long gearing that felt like a truck more than anything else.

[swift_guy]

Originally Posted by hserus

Thanks - so it remains a nice dream is all. How about XUV rather than Xylo? Tried the Xylo and besides the body roll and tractor-sounding engine, it had absurdly long gearing that felt like a truck more than anything else.

I haven't driven the XUV yet, so won't be able to comment on it. I would still stick to Xylo or Bolero if abuse-taking capability is in consideration. XUV simply doesn't feel sturdy enough. I doubt XUV will be available in 5 Lac bracket, a minimum of 7-8 Lac is required for it. And instead of spending 7-8 Lac on a used XUV, one can try a used/new Duster or Terrano. Terrific FE, good drivability and ride quality and decent softroading ability.

Xylo goes around 3.5-4 Lac in NCR for an abused piece, so 5 Lac should get you a decent condition vehicle. Gears are notchy as well, I remember driving one (base variant) in hilly areas of Uttarakhand (Nainital route) and body roll was extreme. OTOH, it is spacious for 7 and comfortable (at least in a straight line). In the used car market, sells for the same price as an i20 or Polo - which makes it sheer VFM for those looking for an abuse friendly vehicle. Bolero is also one good machine for rough driving, but not many owners are willing to sell it.

If you talk to taxi drivers, they say Xylo is a poor man's Innova. Many of them are using Xylos clocked over 1.5 Lac kms and the vehicles still are reliable. Did I mention that the car I drove had done 1.49 Lac kms, belonged to a friend in Uttarakhand!

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by hserus

Thanks - so it remains a nice dream is all. How about XUV rather than Xylo? Tried the Xylo and besides the body roll and tractor-sounding engine, it had absurdly long gearing that felt like a truck more than anything else.

Sorry, I dont know if you've disqualified this as a choice, but I didn't see it on the current page. The safari. A non storme one can be had for peanuts, and are easy to maintain as well. Almost every FNG is adept at fixing them up, since its sold so well. Even the interiors can be refurbished back to new in under 40k.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by mayankk

Sorry, I dont know if you've disqualified this as a choice, but I didn't see it on the current page. The safari. A non storme one can be had for peanuts, and are easy to maintain as well. Almost every FNG is adept at fixing them up, since its sold so well. Even the interiors can be refurbished back to new in under 40k.

I love the styling. How does it do in the driving department - crisp gear changes, responsive steering? And hopefully comfortable seats - the real bad back that I have is what is motivating me to find a better ride for highways and bad roads.

Oh, does it schwimmen in benzin wrt fuel efficiency? I was actually thinking of the Tata Aria, as a friend has that and loves it - though it seems to have gone off the market pretty fast.

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by hserus

I love the styling. How does it do in the driving department - crisp gear changes, responsive steering? And hopefully comfortable seats - the real bad back that I have is what is motivating me to find a better ride for highways and bad roads.

Driving wise it will take about 5-10 minutes of adjusting to the size of the vehicle. The worst bit is the tremendous turning circle compared to anything else you may have driven. Gear shifts, you'll have to fish through a sea of safaris and pick the one that is the best. Crisp, not the word for her gear changes.. Not in the league of any jap/korean/european, but not bad in any dealbreaking way.

I personally love the seating. That, with a good ride, is a decent enough combination. In fact, its the weapon of choice for most people I know who like long distance travel over varying terrain, but also want a car with character.

Originally Posted by hserus

Great. I'm liking this better and better till I find a good test drive. Which engine, I assume the 2.2 dicor one, as you say not the storme?

At least random tempo traveler / indica types will treat it with slightly more respect than they treat a honda sedan

Nein. Diesel
2.2.
And don't be turned off by bad interiors. They're typically the first to go. If you find a good example, a little bit of a spend can fix the interiors up quite nicely.

[hserus]

Great. I'm liking this better and better till I find a good test drive. Which engine, I assume the 2.2 dicor one, as you say not the storme?

At least random tempo traveler / indica types will treat it with slightly more respect than they treat a honda sedan

[swift_guy]

Originally Posted by hserus

I love the styling. How does it do in the driving department - crisp gear changes, responsive steering? And hopefully comfortable seats - the real bad back that I have is what is motivating me to find a better ride for highways and bad roads.

Oh, does it schwimmen in benzin wrt fuel efficiency? I was actually thinking of the Tata Aria, as a friend has that and loves it - though it seems to have gone off the market pretty fast.

Why not? Safari is a good choice for long distance highway travels. SUVs are battle-tanks and you can't expect the smoothness or refinement of your Honda i-vtec. FE can be in the range of 10-11 km/l for majority of these vehicles. In fact, I read somewhere than an Innova owner managed 14+ kmpl only once in 90k kms of ownership. That is the reason why softroaders like Duster were a hit. You can do decent stuff off the road and still get 18+ km/l on highways - having your cake and eating it too.

Tata cars depreciate fast. Finding an Aria would be difficult as it had limited buyers. Maybe you can show your friend some Fortuner videos and convince your friend to sell his Aria!

Take test drives of new ones as well as used ones to check if you actually like these big monsters or not.

About the road presence part, most UVs have good presence and especially the Safari and Fortuner (if you notice closely, the have a very similar size). This looks like a good thing until you are on a busy city road when negotiating simplest of turns becomes a nightmare. Why not open a seperate thread as this thing looks off-topic here.

[hserus]

I got the hint. I need to negotiate highly congested city roads as soon as I get off the highway and I can scarcely fit a nano into the safari's boot and drive that over

Needs to be some happy medium between this and my i-vtec - let's see. Or ok, let the i-vtec swim or sink on its own merits. Tyres, suspension and some occasional underbody hits from stones are the main casualties on the last 10 km of my trip (which tend to take longer than the previous 100 km at times)

[swift_guy]

Yes, something in between (OMG I can't stop praising Duster and Terrano) will be fit for your requirements.

Suppose you travel twice from Bangalore-Chennai, i.e. ~1400 kms total. Assuming petrol and diesel prices of NCR (15 rupee difference) i.e. Rs. 60/l and Rs. 45/l respectively.

On a 10 kmpl Safari, you will need to spend Rs. 6300 on fuel, and let us say Rs. 1000 on maintenance. On a 15 kmpl Amaze, you have to spend Rs. 5600 on fuel, so you get a reserve of Rs. 1700 every month for maintenance. Simple reason to hold on to your Amaze, isn't it?

[hserus]

Originally Posted by swift_guy

Yes, something in between (OMG I can't stop praising Duster and Terrano) will be fit for your requirements.

Suppose you travel twice from Bangalore-Chennai, i.e. ~1400 kms total. Assuming petrol and diesel prices of NCR (15 rupee difference) i.e. Rs. 60/l and Rs. 45/l respectively.

On a 10 kmpl Safari, you will need to spend Rs. 6300 on fuel, and let us say Rs. 1000 on maintenance. On a 15 kmpl Amaze, you have to spend Rs. 5600 on fuel, so you get a reserve of Rs. 1700 every month for maintenance. Simple reason to hold on to your Amaze, isn't it?

Amaze is rather more fuel efficient than you think.

On my amaze I tend to use up around 75..80% of a tank of petrol one way (tank up early on in the ride and I end up with my fuel indicator hovering around 3 bars). Assume 1800 rupees for an average tank fill.

323 km via NH4 for my typical commute chennai to whitefield.

I'll keep the amaze for sure, it is a fantasic car and lovely VFM.

But I never said I was trying a replacement due to FE reasons.

Repeating myself from a post on this thread a couple of days back .. The Amaze seat sucks - horrible lumbar support and **integrated rather than adjustable headrest**, so I get a backache even with a neck pillow and wooden bead curtain. I'm six feet and heavyset, plus had an accident about 20 years back that caused whiplash. So lower back and neck comfort is paramount for me.

If I could rip at least the drivers seat out and fit something that has better ergonomics I'd keep it just fine, regardless of the soft suspension that makes bad roads a bit uncomfortable to say the least.

[swift_guy]

Originally Posted by hserus

Amaze is rather more fuel efficient than you think.

On my amaze I tend to use up around 75..80% of a tank of petrol one way (tank up early on in the ride and I end up with my fuel indicator hovering around 3 bars). Assume 1800 rupees for an average tank fill.

323 km via NH4 for my typical commute chennai to whitefield.

I'll keep the amaze for sure, it is a fantasic car and lovely VFM.

But I never said I was trying a replacement due to FE reasons.

Repeating myself from a post on this thread a couple of days back .. The Amaze seat sucks - horrible lumbar support and **integrated rather than adjustable headrest**, so I get a backache even with a neck pillow and wooden bead curtain. I'm six feet and heavyset, plus had an accident about 20 years back that caused whiplash. So lower back and neck comfort is paramount for me.

If I could rip at least the drivers seat out and fit something that has better ergonomics I'd keep it just fine, regardless of the soft suspension that makes bad roads a bit uncomfortable to say the least.

Oh I know. I took a conservative figure for both the cars. It was just to show how expensive these big cars can become in the long term.

Replacing the seat with some other car's seat would be possible, and a worthy investment considering your back problems. You should talk to an aftermarket professional and try replacing the seat with something better. I think seat mounting points need to be same, and pretty much any seat will go in. I have seen members fit Zxi seats in Vxi variant (of Swift) to get height adjust facility, so it is a very much possible idea.

Yes, I agree about soft suspension. Offroading in Amaze won't seem like a good idea but one has to manage. Take it easy over that bad 10 km stretch, and if you wish you can have a used small beater for these roads (a Punto/Swift/Ritz) to take the abuse instead of your primary car.

[StallionAmit]

Originally Posted by swift_guy

If you are not a Jeep enthusiast (i.e. know-it-all of Jeeps), then it is not a good idea to put down money by checking it out yourself.

--
Hi Swift_Guy you are bang on, on your observations. I am not an experienced Jeep-er. But wannabe 4x4 enthusiast. Gypsy might be a good option, but not much available in good conditions and whatever available are 15-20 year old. Which doesn't make much sense.
One question, can Gypsy be used as a daily drive.?
I drive a Honda Civic right now.

[swift_guy]

Originally Posted by StallionAmit

--
Hi Swift_Guy you are bang on, on your observations. I am not an experienced Jeep-er. But wannabe 4x4 enthusiast. Gypsy might be a good option, but not much available in good conditions and whatever available are 15-20 year old. Which doesn't make much sense.
One question, can Gypsy be used as a daily drive.?
I drive a Honda Civic right now.

It would be quite a big change, from a low slung smooth Civic to a uncomfortable (in comparison) and noisy Jeep. Every single thing that I can think of will be exact opposite in both the cars. Pickup, comfort, smoothness, revv-friendliness, offroad capability, NVH (read : N. V. H. ), seating position, features, high speed capability, visibility and what not - you can see all these major aspects are exact opposite.

I would advice you to get some compact/full size UV and then hardcore offroaders. Shifting directly to Jeep from Civic will make you hate the Jeep, practically speaking.

Using it as a daily drive is possible (some members are using it also) but will require changes in electricals and body (AC, seats, covered roof incase you get an open Gypsy, etc.) to make it more car-like. Get these hardcore offroaders only if you have some other car at home (no way your parents would like a Jeep or Gypsy) and obviously cash to spare.