[Hatari]

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM

Well, why is Red-Bull so keen on the Mercedes Rear Wing design.

FIA has already twice clarified that ITS LEGAL.

Is there any signs of Desperation by the team as they are no more the HOT FAVORITES this season..?

Red Bull still seeking clarification about the legality of Mercedes's rear wing - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

Would not blame them. This is grey area within the rules.
The only driver operated system that it allowed to change the aerodynamic configuration of the car is DRS. Rules clearly state that the extent of DRS is limited to the flap on the rear wing.

The F Duct after all does change the aero configuration of the car via a driver operated system (even though it acts as a secondary device here)

[anachronix]

More analysis on the F2012 by CrucialXtreme@AtlasF1

The problem is Ferrari are running the F2012 with much less rake than was originally intended and was shown in testing. This is a direct result of the original exhaust not working properly and the team having to use an interim solution. The lower ride height requires a stiffer rear suspension(remember the stiffening arm shown on F1 site) to prevent the car from bottoming out. A stiffer suspension is more troublesome & frequently causes instability with the rear end all over the place. The addition of full fuel mitigates this effect, but as the car gets lighter, it gets worse.

The reason for the reduced rake is obviously from the original exhaust solution not working and providing additional downforce as well as other aerodynamic problems from a few other issues with the car. The stiff rear suspension with light fuel compromises the cars performance under braking & it's traction out of slower corners which in turn hinder top speed performance. The fact that the team is also having to significantly increase the front wings AoA is another factor seriously limiting top end speed. The car also suffers from pitch sensitivity which is shifting balance around under braking & hurting in slow corners as well. This also explains why the car looks like it's all over the place because the team has adjusted/compromised the optimal suspension settings to try to make the car more competitive.

Getting the original exhaust solutioni working will be a huge step in getting the car on the right track. Even a modified version of the original, or a copy of another teams solution will do the same. It will allow the team the get some much needed downforce at the rear of the car, thus allowing the team to adjust the rake to a more aggressive position and then adjust the suspension to softer settings. There has also been talk that the FWEP's(Front Wing End Plates) aren't doing as good a job as they should and this is due in part to the new Pirelli's. So we should expect to see a new FW. And of course more downforce at the rear will allow the team to lower the AoA of the front wing and help the car gain some top end speed. The bottom line is the path to improving the F2012 start with getting the exhaust sorted. Believe it or not once that is sorted, some of the other things will start to fall into place.

The car has shown that even in a very compromised state it has a pretty decent race pace. If the team can get the issues sorted the car can be competitive, no questions about it. It's only a matter of if and when.

[myavu]

Radically updated Ferrari F2012 to copycat Sauber

Ferrari is said to be following Sauber’s lead when the first major development of the disappointing F2012 car is unveiled soon.

“No doubt about it,” Fernando Alonso said after winning the Malaysian grand prix, “they (Sauber) were quicker than us.”

The Italian magazine Autosprint have mischievously christened the updated Ferrari a ‘Ferrauber’, explaining that the rear of the ‘B’ F2012 will be very similar to Sauber’s impressive C31.

Source: Radically updated Ferrari F2012 to copycat Sauber | YallaF1.com

[anachronix]

Originally Posted by myavu

Radically updated Ferrari F2012 to copycat Sauber

Ferrari is said to be following Sauber’s lead when the first major development of the disappointing F2012 car is unveiled soon.

“No doubt about it,” Fernando Alonso said after winning the Malaysian grand prix, “they (Sauber) were quicker than us.”

The Italian magazine Autosprint have mischievously christened the updated Ferrari a ‘Ferrauber’, explaining that the rear of the ‘B’ F2012 will be very similar to Sauber’s impressive C31.

Source: Radically updated Ferrari F2012 to copycat Sauber | YallaF1.com

Oh no, what would they name the Redbull, Bullber

[anachronix]

Felipe baby! From his twitter account

[deetjohn]

^
Rubens wants Massa to 'relax'.

Rubens Barrichello says Felipe Massa needs to 'relax' to get out of his Formula 1 slump - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

Originally Posted by speedmiester

Red Bull Racing really needs to take a chill pill and stop acting like losers.

Why am I not surprised seeing it is from the 'advisor' Helmut Marko. He is majorly responsible for creating tension between RBR and the rest on the paddock. I wonder what value does he bring to RBR.

[speedmiester]

Miffed RBR send manager to backmarkers | Planet F1 | Formula One | News, Standings, Results, Features, Video

Red Bull Racing really needs to take a chill pill and stop acting like losers.

Narain was penalized (although incorrectly). That should have ended the matter. Mistakes happen, but this is taking it too far.
Stop bullying the back markers. They have paid their fees and have every right to race on the track. If you are unable to complete a clean overtaking move, go learn it first.

Just because vettel is unable to show his index finger on podium anymore, doesn't mean he can shove his middle finger at other drivers. Grow up, Red Bull!

[mgh]

Marussia and HRT need to tell RBR to go fly a kite.

[PAVAN KADAM]

Originally Posted by speedmiester

Miffed RBR send manager to backmarkers | Planet F1 | Formula One | News, Standings, Results, Features, Video

Red Bull Racing really needs to take a chill pill and stop acting like losers.

Narain was penalized (although incorrectly). That should have ended the matter. Mistakes happen, but this is taking it too far.
Stop bullying the back markers. They have paid their fees and have every right to race on the track. If you are unable to complete a clean overtaking move, go learn it first.

Just because vettel is unable to show his index finger on podium anymore, doesn't mean he can shove his middle finger at other drivers. Grow up, Red Bull!

Originally Posted by mgh

Marussia and HRT need to tell RBR to go fly a kite.

With these kind of developments , RBR sure will loose hell loads of Fan-following, Especially Vettel.

What a cry-baby, he's no World Champ. Undoing his position.

I expect Marrussia and HRT to ask those managers to "GO CLIMB A TREE" the moment they arrive.

[asr245]

Boooooooooooo! The champions are a bunch of cry-babies! Maybe HRT/Marussia should play some lullaby tapes for them. (Did I get my English right there?)

Boooo RBR!

[akshay380]

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM

With these kind of developments , RBR sure will loose hell loads of Fan-following, Especially Vettel.

What a cry-baby, he's no World Champ. Undoing his position.

I expect Marrussia and HRT to ask those managers to "GO CLIMB A TREE" the moment they arrive.

Originally Posted by asr245

Boooooooooooo! The champions are a bunch of cry-babies! Maybe HRT/Marussia should play some lullaby tapes for them. (Did I get my English right there?)

Boooo RBR!

Can the back markers complain about this to FIA? What does the new code of conduct say? Driver has to sign that for getting the superlicense. What about CoD for teams?

[Hatari]

Originally Posted by speedmiester

They have paid their fees and have every right to race on the track. If you are unable to complete a clean overtaking move, go learn it first.

Want to state only 2 facts, without getting into this particular incident :

1. When a driver is lapping another driver, at that point of time, they are no longer racing each other
2. It is not considered an overtaking move. It is the lapped driver's mandate to let the driver on the lead lap pass him.

[anachronix]

Great to see all the emotions against Marko. I would agree he is the bad face of the RBR team when he goes public. The way the whole team at RB including Vettel has reacted in the whole incident is pathetic.

But... its clearly Narain's fault of coming back into the racing line too quick spoiling Vettel's race! Its a penalty he deserved, there are enough video proof to prove that and I have already shared it here!

[speedmiester]

Originally Posted by Hatari

Want to state only 2 facts, without getting into this particular incident :

1. When a driver is lapping another driver, at that point of time, they are no longer racing each other

Even though they are getting lapped, doesn't mean they are not racing for their own position.

2. It is not considered an overtaking move. It is the lapped driver's mandate to let the driver on the lead lap pass him.

Passing the back marker is one thing and closing the door on the other driver and causing incidents is another thing. Just because it is a backmarker, doesn't mean the backmarker has to stop by the road and allow the lead driver through. You still need to overtake him. Safely!

My answers to your comments are in bold.


The thing that is more disturbing is that Red Bull is still keeping this issue alive even after almost two weeks. This shows the team's petty nature. They need to bury the issue and get on with the racing. They are definitely not making any friends by pulling such stunts.

[asr245]

Originally Posted by Hatari

Want to state only 2 facts, without getting into this particular incident :

1. When a driver is lapping another driver, at that point of time, they are no longer racing each other
2. It is not considered an overtaking move. It is the lapped driver's mandate to let the driver on the lead lap pass him.

Exactly what speedmiester said. Even though the slower teams may not be racing with the leaders, they are still racing.

Originally Posted by anachronix

But... its clearly Narain's fault of coming back into the racing line too quick spoiling Vettel's race! Its a penalty he deserved, there are enough video proof to prove that and I have already shared it here!

I disagree. For me NK came back (he says he was on marbles and had to come back) and Vettel cut across him too soon. Should have been a racing incident. Vettel was trying to hustle Lewis and didn't want to lose even a tenth while overtaking backmarkers and he lost a minute (& 12 points). Maybe he's learnt a lesson.

PS: maybe this is the wrong thread to be discussing this incident.