[navpreet318]

Originally Posted by Ricky_63

Ok - so we have a self taught tuner in the making ???

I thought you were going to go in for a Turbo for your Civic, what happened ?? Reliability ??

Thanks for sharing your "tooning " experiences






Cheers

Well about the turbo civic.here goes.the tuner i contacted for the job had a very long and detailed discussion about my driving preferences,the civic kit and how the engine was very very much handicapped to be modded too much and added to that was the risk of blowing up the engine which would cost over a lakh to rebuild.

my tuner was good enough to keep me off the turbo and teach me about the problems faced in turboeing a car and how the reliability is really traded for.Also the minor details.here goes.

1.the AEM ECU is a crappy signal modifier.it just changes the signal of the Lambda sensor to change the values of the fule map in the stock ECU.it is not a piggy back ECU as such.This info was found out from the AEM engineers themselves.My prospective tuner was good enough to get in touch with TSI (who make the kit) and AEM to get a lot of info.

2.Because of this the car cannot adapt to changing altitude.that leaves me out of even going to mussoorie which i visit nearly everyday just for the fun drive.that removes the turbo out of contention at all.

3.One has to be seriously loaded to go down this route.say i have only X amount of money for the turbo,tuner fee,accessories like an extra lambda sensor,Scan tool etc. and then something happens to the engine what do i do?where do i get the extra money from.
Turbo is not for people sitting on the fence with budgets.one has to have a huge extra stockpile of greens for that.

4.Biggest fact was the budget.I totalled all the different expenditures myself to come to a figure in which i can buy a badly used OHC and swap it with a B16.Lol.so whats the point.

5.finally i have learnt that these big fancy cars are not meant to be tuned highly in india.In USA this very civic is the car of a poor college student hence the all the modding.But here in india this is a resonably high end luxury car.atleast for me.i was out to buy a 3 lakhs ki OHC or a lancer and ended up buying this civic.so its a very very special acr to me which i don't want to be screwed up.

And all thanks to my Tuner whom i consider more of a guru and a friend who advised me against it even though it would have been a resonably profitable project for him.

[Ricky_63]

@navpreet

And who is this gentleman ?? If I may ask - for future reference that is !!

It is always nice to know about nice & honest people...people who are not ONLY interested in PROFIT



Cheers

[navpreet318]

Oh i guess a lot of people here know him.

R D Chinoy of the RDDreams fame.

He's helped me many times with my cbz,12r and civic.the best part is that whenever i have gone in with a query,the way he has solved it has been a learning curve.Infact many members have gone through his threads and started giving wisdom in this forum.hehe.

The way he backs up his work and is totally frank with people as to whether they should be buying his products or not is commendable.

A star example is the baleno of Crazydiablo.i have heard the reviews from people i blindly trust that this is one fast fast car.

[low_bass_makker]

Read this article in yesterday news paper.

[karthik247]

GTO's and Supra's are available for under 4lakhs??!!!

[iceman91]

AEM ECU is a signal modifier?

I am flabbergasted

[ImmortalZ]

No iceman. The AEM F/IC specifically is a signal modifier. It is not a stand alone and neither is it a piggy back. This is the reason why once you add the thing, your car loses it's capability to adjust to altitude changes. There is only a single map on it that relates to the changes it makes.

It is possible to add a proper stand alone and make it work in parallel with the existing ECU thus giving you a fully capable tuning solution while retaining all your creature comforts and safety features. But doing this isn't cheap. You'll need a proper stand alone ECU, a custom wiring harness and you'll have to live with a CEL for the cam angle sensor (hasn't been fooled yet). But it has been done and I can point you to semi-complete instructions to do this if anyone is willing to go the distance and know a tuner who can tune whatever standalone you go for.

[iceman91]

Ok, Fair enough.
I was a bit taken aback, as AEM is one of the most expensive ECU's in the market and offer complete standalone plug and play options.

Thanks

[iceman91]

Originally Posted by navpreet318

.

2.Because of this the car cannot adapt to changing altitude.that leaves me out of even going to mussoorie which i visit nearly everyday just for the fun drive.that removes the turbo out of contention at all.

Isn't that why we have an O2 sensor attachment??

Also even most stand alones have single maps. You have to load new maps via an external device.


Also for the price of AEM F/I C you can buy a good stand Alone ECU.
AEM - Fuel / Ignition Controller (F/IC)*

Sorry to go off topic

[cinclaturbo]

Originally Posted by ImmortalZ

the reason why once you add the thing, your car loses it's capability to adv just to altitude changes. There is only a single map on it that relates to the changes it makes.
You'll need a proper stand alone ECU, a custom wiring harness and you'll have to live with a CEL for the cam angle sensor (hasn't been fooled yet). But it has been done and I can point you to semi-complete instructions to do this if anyone is willing to go the distance and know a tuner who can tune whatever standalone you go for.

Are you sure about what your posting about the AEM FI/c (altitude changes) buddy??

AFAIK, once you get the CEL for the Cam sensor...the car will go into limp mode and won't rev past 3000rpm. The Vtec will not function/disengage....

We played around with a fair number of R18 civics now.!

Sorry for going Off topic.... But customers with half knowledge and hearsay...landup with some Tuners, make a mess of the car trying to beat the tuner at his game and finally blame the Tuner for everything!!

[ImmortalZ]

Originally Posted by cinclaturbo

Are you sure about what your posting about the AEM FI/c (altitude changes) buddy??

Yes.

Originally Posted by cinclaturbo

AFAIK, once you get the CEL for the Cam sensor...the car will go into limp mode and won't rev past 3000rpm. The Vtec will not function/disengage....

This is true. However, since the stock ECU is not controlling the engine, it doesn't matter. The way this parallel shindig works is by wiring all the sensors with a T connection to both the standalone and stock ECU and terminating the stock ECU's outputs with resistors et al to make it believe it is connected to the injectors and whatnot. The standalone meanwhile, controls the engine.

Originally Posted by cinclaturbo

We played around with a fair number of R18 civics now.!

Sorry for going Off topic.... But customers with half knowledge and hearsay...landup with some Tuners, make a mess of the car trying to beat the tuner at his game and finally blame the Tuner for everything!!

This is true. However, if the tuner doesn't have a game to begin with, who do you blame? RDD rightfully told manveet the pitfalls of using any of the bolt on turbo kits available for the R18A. That level of professionalism it seems, unfortunately, is not very common.

If you managed to get the F/IC to work with altitude changes properly and by that I mean the car is as drivable and safe doing a hill climb to Manali or even Ooty as it is on sea level, cruising a GQ, then please, post your findings. It'll help quite a number of people the world over run their boosted 06+ Civics properly.

P.S : I'm not being an *** here - I would truly appreciate any light you can throw on the subject.

[Psycho]

Originally Posted by ImmortalZ

This is true. However, since the stock ECU is not controlling the engine, it doesn't matter. The way this parallel shindig works is by wiring all the sensors with a T connection to both the standalone and stock ECU and terminating the stock ECU's outputs with resistors et al to make it believe it is connected to the injectors and whatnot. The standalone meanwhile, controls the engine.

Are you sure? Ending stock ECU connections with resistors?

I thought the definitions said:
Standalone: When the stock ecu is completely replaced with a unit that drives all the functions of the car

Piggyback: When you use the stock ECU to drive certain functions and use the piggy back to alter / run the injection and ignition separately and leave the rest to the stock ECU.

[rdkarthik]

Originally Posted by navpreet318

1.the AEM ECU is a crappy signal modifier.it just changes the signal of the Lambda sensor to change the values of the fule map in the stock ECU.it is not a piggy back ECU as such.This info was found out from the AEM engineers themselves.My prospective tuner was good enough to get in touch with TSI (who make the kit) and AEM to get a lot of info.

.

The AEM F/IC is a piggyback ECU. Any ECU that is capable of modifying fuel/ignition related OEM ECU signals (1) Directly ( Injector outputs, ignition outputs, etc) and/or (2) Indirectly ( Load signals like MAP, MAF, etc ) can be labeled as piggyback.

[navpreet318]

Originally Posted by iceman91

AEM ECU is a signal modifier???????

I am flabbergasted

I'm here specifically speaking of the AEM ECU/ FI/C supplied with the TSI turbo kit.

also because of the complex electronic system employed by honda the ECU cannot be replaced.I don't have the knowledge about what Immortalz is saying about.so maybe now it has been done but any way i'm not interested in it as its too much of a risk.

Also if you see competition cars prepared by honda have completely different console for the speedo etc.


The point here is not whether it can be done or not.Anything can be done.and it'll blow up the next day.lol.

But the point here is that i was told about the risks involved which were above my financial capacity and also advice given as a friend to me.which i have not seen yet in the tuning scene.

[rdkarthik]

Originally Posted by navpreet318

2.Because of this the car cannot adapt to changing altitude.that leaves me out of even going to mussoorie which i visit nearly everyday just for the fun drive.that removes the turbo out of contention at all.

Thats an invalid statement. Your altitude corrections are handled by stock ECU, and since the AEM is just a piggyback correcting stock ECU parameters, altitude changed as still in place.

For an arguments sake, even if you do put in a "crappy" signal modifier to lambda sensor, OEM ECU altitude corrections CANNOT be nullified in conditions that are most critical ( higher power requirements )