[PatienceWins]

It is a weird world out there. We even have to be aware of the agents through which the tuner is sourcing the parts and make sure that they do not cheat us.

Why cannot the tuner/ customer source parts from market than going through the so called "agents"?

I fail to understand the role of agents when a customer is getting work done for a tuner, who has the know how to carry out the modification.

@Tadu, I agree with you 100%.

[tadukuttan]

Originally Posted by amitoj

I dont think anyone is biased here really. The so-called victims here know who really is at fault. If my modded car's radiator goes bust when i meet with an accident, i can hardly blame the tuner for it, can i?

Hm, Are you sure you are being fair?

How can you equate the clueless suspension job from the suspension guru of our forum to a busted radiator from an accident?

And to top it, he blames his rather good mechanic, Vasu, as he was away with a "failed kidney"(story of the year, really!). I have only heard good things about Vasu, even from the "victims". Why blame that good soul?

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by tadukuttan

How can you equate the clueless suspension job from the suspension guru of our forum to a busted radiator from an accident?

Huh? When did i do this equating?? Dont go looking for hidden comparisons where none exist.

Originally Posted by tadukuttan

And to top it, he blames his rather good mechanic, Vasu, as he was away with a "failed kidney"(story of the year, really!).

I can personally vouch for the fact that he was hospitalised. You need to get your story straight.

[Psycho]

Originally Posted by tadukuttan

Hm, Are you sure you are being fair?

How can you equate the clueless suspension job from the suspension guru of our forum to a busted radiator from an accident?

And to top it, he blames his rather good mechanic, Vasu, as he was away with a "failed kidney"(story of the year, really!). I have only heard good things about Vasu, even from the "victims". Why blame that good soul?

Tadu, I consider this as a baseless personal attack. Please do not use this forum to malign people without knowing the facts. As for me being hospitalized and health problems all people around me knew what I have been going through the last year, and I don't deem it fit to even discuss this on the open forum.

Please keep Vasu out of this as he is a gem of a person and and his work speaks for him, I have never blamed him and have openly accepted the issues that happened then.

I have never seen you post anything straightforward, have always seen you beating around the bush. If you have a problem with me please come out in the open with it instead of this farce of you being a nice guy.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by tadukuttan

We go after every other dealership, Skoda etc, but never ever admonish members who have been using the forum to pick up customers, and then "cheat" them. Why is that? These guys offer freebies to some of us to keep us quiet?

And the funny part is, it is more true for activities from down south, as I have routinely seen commercial mis-users of the forum getting kicked when they are from Bombay/Delhi etc. That has never happened in Bangalore? And the biggest set of public complaints are from Bangalore.

No offence to the Bangalore support team, but just maybe, you could keep an extra eye on this aspect?

Let us make this clear that those who have been infracted, have been on hard evidence of using the forum - ie PM'ing directly etc.

As far as we know, most of the commercial engagements have happened directly from the team-bhp meets.

If T-bhp forums have been used for cheating., please prove with hard evidence. What goes on 1:1 beyond a meeting is between the two parties unless it was a "designated T-bhp tuner-customer meet", which it was not. If you review the issues raised in this thread, all concerned parties initially approached Keshav directly.

If there is hard evidence contradicting what I am saying or I have missed somethings - please do provide this.

Let the direct parties speak direct and keep "hearsay" issues away

[pramodkumar]

Originally Posted by iceman91

Pramod,
Agree with a few things and disagree with some.
1.Most of us who have done modifications to our cars are not due to "wannabe" attitudes.
2. Some of us are well aware of what is being done to the car if not it is the tuner's onus to explain the dos and donts as he is the one giving advise and is more well versed.
3. He is charging for this it is not free.(most cases a premium)
4. who is installing the "cheap" parts? Isn't it the tuner?
5. reading and assuming are the biggest mistakes a person can make.
6. I agree this is to debate and benchmark our experiences/reviews of tuners.
7. I agree it is going off track.
8. I am surprised this is becoming a bash one tuner thread, there are many many experiences tbhpians have had with other tuners surprised to see no one posting. maybe they are scared of a ban

By wanna be attitude I meant not to stereo type people but to point a view about what modding culture really mean to most of us, remember most of us who came to the forum did not have this level of knowledge initially, if a person goes to a tuner without knowledge chances are he might get ripped because at the end they are there for business and profit is the favorite word in any business. I have not seen any tuner who does all this for the passion of cars, all of they do it for the money so it’s little immature to expect compassion from them for your car. There is a social responsibility each tuner has to ensure his brand image grows, and which is also subjected to his own discretion. Yes I understand that since the tuner in question is a friend as well as a fellow member who is highly respected for his knowledge and work his moral responsibility increases but correct me if I got it correctly I do not think this thread was started with the intension of letting him know that he should have a statuary warning with every work of his. Let’s all stop this mud sling, I have joined the forum in 2006 and only posted 127 times, and I swear I have visited this forum every single day, and I have never seen such a war of words ever. We were all one family, I feel during our BHP meets to be conducted in future we will see a lot of people holding a glass of beer and saying “Hey I know that guy he is the same guy who messed up x’s car” do you think we need that kind of publicity for someone who knows his stuff right or because of someone who was great at narrating an emotionally charged his side of the story, I think we, like sensible people should stand up and make a list of best practices every tuner should follow and rate them accordingly rather than speaking so some unsaid things which we expected should happen like “may be a light on the dashboard saying you are driving crazy and if you mess up something you cannot blame me” i think i have spoken a lot i am now scared of a BAN

[RX135]

Originally Posted by ajmat

Let the direct parties speak direct and keep "hearsay" issues away

Very true!

Though I am not even remotely related to all these stories, I find this thread quite useful. It may appear like mud-slinging and personal bashing at times, but it is serving very important purpose, i.e. know HOW TO (and HOW NOT TO) modify your ride.

I would request moderators not to close this thread. There are many important take aways for both tuners and prospective customers. Of course, personal dogfights are best kept out of this thread.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by RX135

I would request moderators not to close this thread. There are many important take aways for both tuners and prospective customers. Of course, personal dogfights are best kept out of this thread.

We have no intention to unless these personal attacks become excessive. Now lets reiterate the ground rules

1: Speak about your experience with tuners (not just Keshav but others!)!

2: Avoid bringing in other sideshows - ( my parts, your parts etc)

3: Speak facts, we seem to be veering into mere hearsay

Unfortunately, we are seeing too much of a lynchmob mentality like in some other threads. Criticising with facts is fine but mere mud flinging without direct experience is becoming the unwelcome norm

[iceman91]

Pramod, Firstly I cannot see your point clearly. Maybe I am missing it. apologise for that.
Secondly this thread is to hear BOTH sides. So if the tuner does not post or the customer does not post it is his choice/mistake.

Today Keshav and me have sorted our stuff and my EXPERIENCE has been posted and acknowledged by Keshav, So I dont see any mudslinging happening. Mudslinging happens when people not involved start giving views/advise/opinions without knowing the FULL story.

Again been stressed by Ajmat, keep hearsay away.

[Ricky_63]

Just read Iceman's post + 1 to that

It'd be nice if now on ONLY people with "real" first hand experiences write here. So we get a first hand report from the "horse's mouth" so to speak, rather than talking of just heresay...





Cheers

[tadukuttan]

Originally Posted by ajmat

If T-bhp forums have been used for cheating., please prove with hard evidence. What goes on 1:1 beyond a meeting is between the two parties...

Sorry Ajmat, that was not the spirit demonstrated jointly in the Skoda issue. We stood by the truth, even though team-bhp was most definitely NOT a party to stealing the spares, or whatever is it that went on there. Why do you think we need to be different here?

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by ajmat

We have no intention to unless these personal attacks become excessive. Now lets reiterate the ground rules

1: Speak about your experience with tuners (not just Keshav but others!)!

2: Avoid bringing in other sideshows - ( my parts, your parts etc)

3: Speak facts, we seem to be veering into mere hearsay

+1 to point 1.

3a. Speak complete facts. Leaving some facts out to suit one's point of view is as bad as lying.

[pramodkumar]

Originally Posted by iceman91

Pramod, Firstly I cannot see your point clearly. Maybe I am missing it. apologise for that.
Secondly this thread is to hear BOTH sides. So if the tuner does not post or the customer does not post it is his choice/mistake.

Today Keshav and me have sorted our stuff and my EXPERIENCE has been posted and acknowledged by Keshav, So I dont see any mudslinging happening. Mudslinging happens when people not involved start giving views/advise/opinions without knowing the FULL story.

Again been stressed by Ajmat, keep hearsay away.

Sir, I totally agree with you, in my earlier posts I have clearly mentioned about the level of negligence shown in messing up the lowering arm of your car, in the previous post as well I have pointed out his moral responsibility as a friend to have guided you in a better manner about the pros and cons of the entire deal. I also sympathize on the fact that you have lost a lot of time and money I am talking about perceptions being built here. I have only known Keshav through team BHP, have never met him or never known anyone personally who has met him, my friend has spoken a lot about him who is part of RD Dreams and is in lukhnow, so I have perception about this man’s ability which is getting ruined for some reason which I feel is not justified. I totally agree about your loss and when I read Alias’s post I thought there is always a second side to the story as well, all I am saying now is that we all talk about a list of best practices to expect out of a tuner and the best part how to ask for it. Let’s keep our dirty laundry out of the forum.

[iceman91]

Agree, I get it now, Thanks Pramod

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by tadukuttan

Sorry Ajmat, that was not the spirit demonstrated jointly in the Skoda issue. We stood by the truth, even though team-bhp was most definitely NOT a party to stealing the spares, or whatever is it that went on there. Why do you think we need to be different here?

Well the complainant spoke his facts, presented his paperwork etc.

In the cases that you allude, who are "the cheated" ? They have not spoken!