ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

CrackedHead · 21st April 2009, 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenhorn

um dude , you're just adding to it

What confusing nomenclature. Now is there a GTD for petrol engines too ?

Btw - is this available in India ? CASTROL GTX HIGH MILEAGE 20W-50

Raccoon · 21st April 2009, 17:16

^^^Once again, I have no idea why Castrol Magnatec is being compared to fully synthetic oils like Shell Helix Ultra and Edge, etc. Magnatec is NOT a fully synthetic product.... don't get fooled by the words "Synthetic technology"!!'

In fact even Castrol's Edge may not be a true synthetic. I suspect they use severely hydro cracked base oil. I'm not 100% about it though. However the fact they don't even mention the details it more suspicious.

Even the "intelligent molecules" and all that being hyped about Magnatec is suspect.

Castrol is all about clever marketing...

nitrous · 21st April 2009, 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by raccoon

In fact even Castrol's Edge may not be a true synthetic. I suspect they use severely hydro cracked base oil. I'm not 100% about it though.

Why would you post such a thing when you yourself are not sure?
I'm not a fan of Castrol but I know their standards of quality having used their products and compared them with other brands. I'd be amazed to hear one mech who doesn't recommend Castrol. This is why Castrol cans are in high demand with spurious oil makers.

Coming back to the topic, Castrol EDGE is NOT clever marketing. I've personally seen race engines and formula cars being filled with Castrol EDGE and if it is not a proper synthetic that performs, Championship winning teams wouldn't go anywhere near it.

CrackedHead · 21st April 2009, 18:23

Has anyone tried "high mileage" engine oil ?

I have a couple of petrol cars that are past the 100K km mark and require 2-3 liters of engine oil as top-up within a 5K km period. There are no leaks from the engine and I haven't noticed blue smoke at the exhaust either.

I am trying to get hold of some "high mileage" oil as it claims to reduce oil consumption on such engines.

I did find one such product at the Shell India website -

Shell Helix High Mileage But - this oil is 25W-60.

Should I try this in a M800 and Zen ?

Raccoon · 21st April 2009, 18:33

Mechanics? Since when do mechanics say sensible things when it comes to oils??? Castrol is obviously in demand because they have captured the market with their marketing, etc. Also, IIRC they were the 1st private oil company in India... then the only other choices available were PSU brands. So they had a headstart too. It is not so today when better products are available.

While I'm not 100% sure about the Edge that is sold in India... I do know that Castrol was involved in a legal tussle (in the US) that made it possible to legally label non-fully synth oils as fully synth. Please note that I have not said that Edge or Castrol's other products are bad per se. What I'm saying is if Edge is indeed severely hydroprocessed, it is technically NOT a fully synth product. That does not make it a bad product, but it does make it an OVERPRICED product!

Also if Edge is indeed a true synthetic (PAO/Ester basestock), why is this not being disclosed? I cannot imagine Castrol's clever marketing team not to mention this if it were! All the more reason to suspect that its not a true synthetic.

I do not know what race cars use, etc. What I know is that it is not at all right to compare race conditions/enviroment for regular street use. Even if they use it in race cars, it does not at all mean its the best product for street use. They may have other reasons to use it for race engines which may be right/wrong... but it does not negate what I have stated above.

IronWolf · 21st April 2009, 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raccoon

In fact even Castrol's Edge may not be a true synthetic. I suspect they use severely hydro cracked base oil. I'm not 100% about it though. However the fact they don't even mention the details it more suspicious.

Castrol is all about clever marketing...

I might agree partly on the Magnatec nonsense on it sticking to the engine, etc.
However, I seriously doubt that Castrol would falsely advertise esp on its flagship product. Can you provide reliable data/reports to back this up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrous

Why would you post such a thing when you yourself are not sure?
I'm not a fan of Castrol but I know their standards of quality having used their products and compared them with other brands. I'd be amazed to hear one mech who doesn't recommend Castrol. This is why Castrol cans are in high demand with spurious oil makers.

Coming back to the topic, Castrol EDGE is NOT clever marketing. I've personally seen race engines and formula cars being filled with Castrol EDGE and if it is not a proper synthetic that performs, Championship winning teams wouldn't go anywhere near it.

+1 I agree completely to this post.

I have the Edge and am fully satisfied. Not that I have a race car, but I'd like to know that I did not get cheated by a 'Clever Marketing team'.

Raccoon · 21st April 2009, 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronWolf

I might agree partly on the Magnatec nonsense on it sticking to the engine, etc.
However, I seriously doubt that Castrol would falsely advertise esp on its flagship product. Can you provide reliable data/reports to back this up.

+1 I agree completely to this post.

I have the Edge and am fully satisfied. Not that I have a race car, but I'd like to know that I did not get cheated by a 'Clever Marketing team'.

By flagship product you mean Edge? I don't think I have yet been understood. Let me state it simply again - severely hydroprocessed oils can be LEGALLY labelled as fully synthetic. This is as per US law, at least. I don't know about India. I wont be surprised at all that there is no law governing this in India... so the same thing will very likely be applicable here. So Castrol is not doing anything that is legally wrong. But it is technically wrong!

Please google for data... I'm sure you will find something.

What is your definition of "fully satisfied"? From the way you have said it, I suspect you will say car goes smooth, no problems, etc, etc. And thats just not the point...

And btw, the cleverest marketing is where the customer does not even realise that he has been cheated.

nitrous · 21st April 2009, 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raccoon

Mechanics? Since when do mechanics say sensible things when it comes to oils???

So, whom do you believe? Google?
Guess you haven't met the right mechanics who would make an IIT engineering graduate run for cover, forget enthusiasts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raccoon

Castrol is obviously in demand because they have captured the market with their marketing, etc.

Marketing can do nothing if the product ain't worth it. Especially if it is a consumable.
Marketing can only take you so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by raccoon

That does not make it a bad product, but it does make it an OVERPRICED product!

That is absolutely incorrect.
Rs. 2300 for 4 Litres is excellent VFM. I don't remember the last time I so less for a product.

That said, I speak from my experience with lubricants for so many years as i manage a fleet for pleasure and have used lubricants from Castrol, Shell, Valvoline, Pennzoil, British Petroleum, Mobil, etc. And I have personally used synthetic oils from OWS, Shell Helix Ultra, Mobil 1, Castrol EDGE.

IronWolf · 21st April 2009, 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raccoon

By flagship product you mean Edge? I don't think I have yet been understood. Let me state it simply again - severely hydroprocessed oils can be LEGALLY labelled as fully synthetic. This is as per US law, at least. I don't know about India. I wont be surprised at all that there is no law governing this in India... so the same thing will very likely be applicable here. So Castrol is not doing anything that is legally wrong. But it is technically wrong!

Interesting, again I dont see a back up in terms of documentation etc on this.

So applying this logic, we should conclude that other companies as well are 'hydroprocessing' mineral oil to charge us heavily on something with no real extra benifit?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raccoon

Please google for data... I'm sure you will find something.

Gee, we can find stuff on Google? Like I said since you are convinced about this, there must be somewhere where you read this. If you could enlighten us, we would be glad to accept that Castrol is pulling an excellent bluff on most of us on this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raccoon

What is your definition of "fully satisfied"? From the way you have said it, I suspect you will say car goes smooth, no problems, etc, etc. And thats just not the point...

I completely agree thats not the point. The point however is what I have stated after that. I dont buy it that most of us on this thread who have bought a Fully Synthetic are buying Hydro Mineral Oil.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raccoon

And btw, the cleverest marketing is where the customer does not even realise that he has been cheated.

Like Nitrous said. Products like this will speak for themselves, Plus, I have not seen a single Edge Ad in my life. I bought it because of reviews and this thread. I have seen quite a few reviews and tests on the performance of Edge and other Synthetics. You suspect Castrol paid them off?

In case you are wondering what reviews and test - I guess you have to Google to find these reviews.

dockap · 21st April 2009, 23:28

ok guys now i am totally confused 3 days of searching the net and team bhp everyone seeems to have a different opinion
some forums say this oil is the best other forums they say its crap
even the manufacture websites take for example shell and castrol
on their european sites they have shell helix ultra and shell helix ultra diesel
castrol magnatec and castrol magnatec diesel
different names for same product for petrol and diesel engines
but in india no such differentiation for petrol and diesel engines
what gives?

btw my magnum needs 7 ltrs of oil shell helix ultra = rs 7105/-

gm uses elf oil in their service centers 7 ltrs= rs 1260/-
is my car going to fly or work underwater with the shell oil or is the oil going change by itself or regenerate itself once its efficacy is over?

nitrous · 21st April 2009, 23:32

For a 140bhp diesel saloon, I'd suggest you try sourcing the Mobil Delvac 1
Its the only API-CI4 rated synthetic oil. Rest are just API-CF which is actually obsolete in the US already.

Raccoon · 22nd April 2009, 01:14

Gosh guys... I just mentioned what I know. Its upto you how you wanna use it. Don't wanna get into arguments/debates. I repeat I'm not saying that Edge or other Castrol products are bad per se. They are more like overrated/overpriced/overhyped.

And this is a fact, like it or not - you may very well have bought fully synth oil which is actually dyno oil...... lol! You can't escape from the possibility of that!

I asked to Google because I do not have links stored with me. It wasn't to cheese anybody off... lol!

Quote:

ok guys now i am totally confused 3 days of searching the net and team bhp everyone seeems to have a different opinion
some forums say this oil is the best other forums they say its crap
even the manufacture websites take for example shell and castrol
on their european sites they have shell helix ultra and shell helix ultra diesel
castrol magnatec and castrol magnatec diesel
different names for same product for petrol and diesel engines
but in india no such differentiation for petrol and diesel engines
what gives?
btw my magnum needs 7 ltrs of oil shell helix ultra = rs 7105/-
gm uses elf oil in their service centers 7 ltrs= rs 1260/-
is my car going to fly or work underwater with the shell oil or is the oil going change by itself or regenerate itself once its efficacy is over?

You can also consider Delo 400. Has many fans here. Do a search to know more.

the_maassk · 22nd April 2009, 17:42

Can I please draw the oil gurus' attention to this thread:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...resetting.html (Basic ECM Resetting)

Can I have a second opinion on this?

dockap · 23rd April 2009, 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raccoon

You can also consider Delo 400. Has many fans here. Do a search to know more.

sent email to chevron india they replied back immediately and directed me to their dealer in mangalore
havoline synthetic not available will take a week but its 5w-30 so dropped the idea
they had delo 400 and delo gold when i asked for delo 400 they said its for engines that run all day long and recommended delo gold for car engines
so went for delo gold sae 15w-40 multigrade isosynthetic 7 ltrs cost -Rs 1282/-(one 5 ltr and two 1 ltrs cans) will change oil next week
anyone here used delo gold before?

skoloseven · 24th April 2009, 01:29

Is royal purple available in India? If it is, you should get it. I've seen the royal purple videos and it looks like it reduces wear and friction a lot. Check it out if you have time!~

21st April 2009, 17:16	#1547
Raccoon Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Poona Posts: 1,832 Thanked: 105 Times	^^^Once again, I have no idea why Castrol Magnatec is being compared to fully synthetic oils like Shell Helix Ultra and Edge, etc. Magnatec is NOT a fully synthetic product.... don't get fooled by the words "Synthetic technology"!!' In fact even Castrol's Edge may not be a true synthetic. I suspect they use severely hydro cracked base oil. I'm not 100% about it though. However the fact they don't even mention the details it more suspicious. Even the "intelligent molecules" and all that being hyped about Magnatec is suspect. Castrol is all about clever marketing...
	() Thanks

21st April 2009, 18:23	#1549
CrackedHead BHPian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Seattle Posts: 575 Thanked: 50 Times	Has anyone tried "high mileage" engine oil ? I have a couple of petrol cars that are past the 100K km mark and require 2-3 liters of engine oil as top-up within a 5K km period. There are no leaks from the engine and I haven't noticed blue smoke at the exhaust either. I am trying to get hold of some "high mileage" oil as it claims to reduce oil consumption on such engines. I did find one such product at the Shell India website - Shell Helix High Mileage But - this oil is 25W-60. Should I try this in a M800 and Zen ?
	() Thanks

21st April 2009, 18:33	#1550
Raccoon Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Poona Posts: 1,832 Thanked: 105 Times	Mechanics? Since when do mechanics say sensible things when it comes to oils??? Castrol is obviously in demand because they have captured the market with their marketing, etc. Also, IIRC they were the 1st private oil company in India... then the only other choices available were PSU brands. So they had a headstart too. It is not so today when better products are available. While I'm not 100% sure about the Edge that is sold in India... I do know that Castrol was involved in a legal tussle (in the US) that made it possible to legally label non-fully synth oils as fully synth. Please note that I have not said that Edge or Castrol's other products are bad per se. What I'm saying is if Edge is indeed severely hydroprocessed, it is technically NOT a fully synth product. That does not make it a bad product, but it does make it an OVERPRICED product! Also if Edge is indeed a true synthetic (PAO/Ester basestock), why is this not being disclosed? I cannot imagine Castrol's clever marketing team not to mention this if it were! All the more reason to suspect that its not a true synthetic. I do not know what race cars use, etc. What I know is that it is not at all right to compare race conditions/enviroment for regular street use. Even if they use it in race cars, it does not at all mean its the best product for street use. They may have other reasons to use it for race engines which may be right/wrong... but it does not negate what I have stated above.
	() Thanks

21st April 2009, 23:28	#1555
dockap BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Mangalore Posts: 845 Thanked: 378 Times View My Garage	ok guys now i am totally confused 3 days of searching the net and team bhp everyone seeems to have a different opinion some forums say this oil is the best other forums they say its crap even the manufacture websites take for example shell and castrol on their european sites they have shell helix ultra and shell helix ultra diesel castrol magnatec and castrol magnatec diesel different names for same product for petrol and diesel engines but in india no such differentiation for petrol and diesel engines what gives? btw my magnum needs 7 ltrs of oil shell helix ultra = rs 7105/- gm uses elf oil in their service centers 7 ltrs= rs 1260/- is my car going to fly or work underwater with the shell oil or is the oil going change by itself or regenerate itself once its efficacy is over? Last edited by dockap : 21st April 2009 at 23:31.
	() Thanks

21st April 2009, 23:32	#1556
nitrous Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: UAE/Lon/Madras Posts: 6,965 Thanked: 288 Times View My Garage	For a 140bhp diesel saloon, I'd suggest you try sourcing the Mobil Delvac 1 Its the only API-CI4 rated synthetic oil. Rest are just API-CF which is actually obsolete in the US already.
	() Thanks

22nd April 2009, 17:42	#1558
the_maassk BHPian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Vadodara/ NG7 2QP Posts: 205 Thanked: 4 Times View My Garage	Need a second opinion! Can I please draw the oil gurus' attention to this thread: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...resetting.html (Basic ECM Resetting) Can I have a second opinion on this?
	() Thanks

24th April 2009, 01:29	#1560
skoloseven BHPian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Mumbai-Tampa Posts: 67 Thanked: 0 Times	Is royal purple available in India? If it is, you should get it. I've seen the royal purple videos and it looks like it reduces wear and friction a lot. Check it out if you have time!~
	() Thanks

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