[Sandy Damodaran]

https://www.livemint.com/auto-news/i...602897054.html

Not sure if this was shared elsewhere, but thought this is a good place to put it in

[Vtach]

Maybe I've been living under a stone then! If being OK with OEMs giving incomplete products in exchange of complete payment is the new accepted norm, then I'm going to hold on to my totally analogue vehicles as long as they let me run them!

[whitewing]

Originally Posted by Sandy Damodaran

https://www.livemint.com/auto-news/i...602897054.html

Not sure if this was shared elsewhere, but thought this is a good place to put it in

This is not surprising especially after looking at their response, holding an complaining customer at fault, absolving their product of fault.

Quoting a relevant section of the article.

Reetam Singh, who is recovering from his injuries, accused Ola Electric of using troll accounts.

“Many other Ola customers left comments on my father’s tweet about my accident that they were facing similar issues as we had—and troll accounts went after them too. When I started seeing a pattern in what was being said to troll us, I was stunned to find out the company was employing either bot handles or some social media agency to discredit my story. I realized these were not authentic customers or handles, and they were amplifying tweets from a common marketing agency. There were 50-60 handles like that", Singh said over the phone.


To be sure, there is no direct evidence as to whether Ola Electric was aware of or responsible for this activity. The company did not respond to a request for its version of events. On 22 April, however, it had blamed overspeeding for the accident, citing the scooter’s ride data, and claimed the vehicle was faultless.

Mint also found out that about 100 Twitter accounts, including some of the 50 accounts mentioned above, work to like, retweet, and applaud tweets positive about Ola Electric’s self-driving experiment, founder Bhavish Aggarwal’s disruptive vision for Make in India, about the world’s largest two-wheeler factory it has built and its all-women workforce.

[sri_tesla]

People can stick with their analog vehicles (whatever that means) if they want but don't expect EVs to be analog vehicles.

No product is being sold in isolation. But it seems most people seem to be ignorant of what is happening with other options in the market. Ola always said their ex-showroom price includes all the features coming in the future and no extra charges for navigation, app usage, etc...

On the other hand, Ather charges Rs 3304 per year for features like navigation, ride statistics on the app, etc... For service subscription (scheduled maintenance, labor charges, RSA, etc...) you need to pay Rs 3776 per year. These are optional but replacing brake pads, front panels, etc... which commonly fail due to poor quality will cost a bomb. These subscriptions cost as much as the electricity costs for charging the vehicle for traveling 1000 km a month.

Chetak never mentioned app charges at the time of purchase but after 1 year, they sent the buyers a bill of Rs 4,700 for data renewal charges. Otherwise, you will not be able to use the app to check ride statistics, charge status, etc... Again, these data charges cost more than charging costs.

[Gansan]

^^ Is it the same with Okinawa, Komaki etc? I see a lot of people whom we can call blue collar riding them. Komaki especially sells specific load carrrier bikes. I am not sure these people will line up for them if there are such repetitive and hidden costs. I think they are analog. Just an electric motor instead of IC engine.

[sri_tesla]

Originally Posted by Gansan

^^ Is it the same with Okinawa, Komaki etc? I see a lot of people whom we can call blue collar riding them. Komaki especially sells specific load carrrier bikes. I am not sure these people will line up for them if there are such repetitive and hidden costs. I think they are analog. Just an electric motor instead of IC engine.

Yes, most if not all of these Chinese imported kit scooters (Okinawa, Hero Electric, Komaki, Pure EV, etc...) are just similar to ICE scooters. As far as I am aware, none of these have big dashboards for navigation. New models have features for GPS tracking, anti-theft alarm, etc... Not sure about the subscription charges though.

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by sri_tesla

The breakdown is most likely due to the battery percentage sudden drop from 20 or 30% to 0%. The battery percentage shown on the dashboard is not updated if the scooter is kept idle for a few days. As with any electric scooter, there is some idle drop per day. Only after reboot, the dashboard is being updated with the actually available battery percentage.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

sri_tesla, Im not sure I fully understand your post since you have thrown in the idle drop (battery drain for the laymap) in between. Is there any correlation between the idle drop and the faulty software going from 30% to 0% due to poor coding and / or negligent testing from Ola? Or are they unrelated? Your post makes it look like they are related.

sri_tesla, can you please clarify whether there is any correlation between the immediate drop from 30% to 0% and the daily battery drain? Or is it poor calibration / software / implementation?

I believe there is no correlation because then we would hear the same thing happen in other EVs.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Also, do you have any insights into why the Ola scooters go backwards when owners give it acceleration? You seem to have a lot of knowledge on the EV space, so it will be great if you can shed some light on this potentially life threatening behaviour of Ola scooters, that the company doesnt publicly acknowledge.

Also, any thoughts on this?

Originally Posted by Sebring

Don't be worried, there's no point now that you bought it. I'd buy a tiny fire extinguisher like CeaseFire and keep it under the seat

Sebring, from what I have read, the last thing to do in case of a fire with a EV, is to try and put it out yourself. Given the complexity of the batteries and how they reacts to fire, even our trained firemen may not be best equipped to deal with an Ola scooter (or any other electric scooter) that is burning. I would just leave it to burn and claim insurance, rather than trying to douse the flames.

Originally Posted by whitewing

This is not surprising especially after looking at their response, holding an complaining customer at fault, absolving their product of fault.

Even less surprising is Bhavish playing the victim.

If we look at their track record, Ola
- made claims of huge production (fell flat),
- made claims of bulk deliveries as though they were Amazon India (fell flat),
- hid from user complaints of battery drain and scooters going in reverse (major self inflicted wound),
- targetted a user who had an accident with a heavy handed response while frightening off others worried about how data was being misused (another major self inflicted wound),
- has a digital marketing team to whitewash their image and is now playing the victim.
All this has the makings of a major business implosion. I want Ola and every other player in the EV space to succeed on the merits of their products. However, this company seems to lack genuine leadership and vision from the top. And the way things are going, soon there wont be anyone left, for volkman10 and Ventakesh to report about on the Ola exits thread.

Last week, I was chatting about Ola with a friend of mine who works in one of India's largest two wheeler companies. I told him that the biggest threat to Ola's success is Ola themselves. The more clownish antics I see from them, the more I am convinced that I am right.

[sri_tesla]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

sri_tesla, can you please clarify whether there is any correlation between the immediate drop from 30% to 0% and the daily battery drain? Or is it poor calibration / software / implementation?

I believe there is no correlation because then we would hear the same thing happen in other EVs.

Also, any thoughts on this?

Daily battery drain is idle drain when not in use. It is just similar to any electronic device or other EVs. Due to continuous data transfers of these so-called smart vehicles, the percentage of the drain per day is on the high side. It happens with Ather also which has been reported by many users on Ather's official forums. Examples below.







So, if the scooter is charged to 100% and kept idle for 4-5 days, the battery may reduce by 20 to 30%. In the case of Ather, the BMS is able to calculate the accurate percentage including these drains much better than Ola and the same is being displayed on the dashboard. After seeing the low percentage, people will charge before starting the ride to avoid stranding on the road. In the case of Ola, the true percentage is not being calculated and the display still shows a higher percentage of charge than the actual percentage available. Workaround for this is to reboot the Ola scooter after which the actual percentage is showing up then if required charge the scooter before the ride.

I am still not sure if Ola's BMS is not able to calculate the true SoC (State of Charge) as the correct percentage is showing up after reboot. Maybe it's the software issue but I have no idea.

Sebring, from what I have read, the last thing to do in case of a fire with a EV, is to try and put it out yourself. Given the complexity of the batteries and how they reacts to fire, even our trained firemen may not be best equipped to deal with an Ola scooter (or any other electric scooter) that is burning. I would just leave it to burn and claim insurance, rather than trying to douse the flames.

Yes, it's not wise to put out the battery fires or petrol vehicles fires ourselves. Just move the nearby vehicles or items far away from the vehicle if possible.

Also, the fatal incidents are happening with the scooters with the removable batteries where the people are charing the batteries in the same rooms where they are sleeping or living. Also, these are actually battery blasts that happen due to low-quality cells or some issues with battery cell chemistry.

If we look at their track record, Ola
- made claims of huge production (fell flat)

Well, Ola became the biggest EV 2-wheeler manufacturer and sold more vehicles in April than anyone else within 5 months of starting deliveries. Also, Ola sold more scooters in 5 months than Ather did in 3 years 4 months. Ola sold more vehicles in 5 months than Bajaj and TVS sold in 2 years 4 months.

While Ather, Bajaj, and TVS are blaming it on semiconductors or other parts shortages despite being in the market for 3+ years, Ola is able to deliver more than double that of all these companies combined in April

Ather in November 2021 claimed that they have an operating capacity of 10,000 vehicles per month. But they did not deliver more than 3000 scooters per month since then. They also claimed in 2018 that will set up 6,500 fast chargers by 2022 but the total number is just around 300. Funnily, just 2-3 months back they signed up an MOU with the Karnataka govt to set up 1,000 fast chargers in Karnataka alone.

The media which has been questioning Ola about delays stays mum about the delays of Ather, Bajaj Chetak, and TVS iQube.

- made claims of bulk deliveries as though they were Amazon India (fell flat),

Fell flat on what exactly? Ola is delivering scooters all over India. A friend of mine who lives in a rural area has been waiting for Ather to come to a nearby city for the last 4 years. Ather expanded to 20+ cities yet the nearest Ather showroom is 300+ km in any direction. He booked Ola, made the final payment on 21st Jan 2022, and on Feb 16th he got the vehicle delivered to his home. If anything its the established companies that are struggling with deliveries and expansions. Even after 3 years, Ather, Chetak, and iQube are only available in 20 to 30 cities.

- hid from user complaints of battery drain and scooters going in reverse (major self-inflicted wound),

The reverse issue is fixed through software update version 1.0.16 which was released in the middle of March as per Ola Engineer. For December, and January deliveries Ola technicians will visit the homes and updated the software. For later batches, 1.0.16 is released through OTA. There was a poll conducted on the Ola owners club telegram group if this issue is really fixed with 1.0.16. No one got the reverse issue after this version. All the new scooters from the end of March are already coming with 1.0.16.

- targetted a user who had an accident with a heavy handed response while frightening off others worried about how data was being misused (another major self inflicted wound),

If you follow that user's initial tweets, Ola responded to him privately and offered to service the vehicle also even though it's not Ola's fault. But the guy actually criticized Ola on Twitter and asked to share the data publicly.

I want Ola and every other player in the EV space to succeed on the merits of their products.

I am sorry, but you are hoping for Ola's success is just pure comedy.

You were defending the Chinese imported scooters when many forum members including mods raised safety concerns about these scooters. Not a single post from you criticizing the numerous fires happening with these scooters and not a single post on the EV scooter fires thread. But you don't miss any chance to mention the Ola incident.

As per you, Ola should start producing 2 million vehicles from day 1. Delivery should happen the next day after payment. But these targets only apply to Ola.

If Ather delivers 4 months after booking or 1-2 months after full payment then that's fine. If Chetak increases prices by 50% and does not honor old prices then that is also good. Ather quality issues (suddenly stopped working, display bubbles, vehicles stopping due to motor heating, parts quality, higher pats costs, pathetic service despite dealerships, etc...) do not matter.

Coming to Ola, they should just ignore the noise and concentrate on improving the quality, and service and make safety a top priority. Tesla has been subjected to much worse targeted attacks by mainstream media for more than a decade and caused financial damages as well. Yet it became the most valued automobile company in the world.

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Sebring, from what I have read, the last thing to do in case of a fire with a EV, is to try and put it out yourself. Given the complexity of the batteries and how they reacts to fire, even our trained firemen may not be best equipped to deal with an Ola scooter (or any other electric scooter) that is burning. I would just leave it to burn and claim insurance, rather than trying to douse the flames.

My BIL charges the Ola scooter outside in the open only, by drawing the power chord through the living room window. I have told him to ensure sufficient space around the scooter for people to rush past in case of any emergency (it is an apartment complex). And not to try to put out the flames but call the fire service immediately.

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by sri_tesla

Well, Ola became the biggest EV 2-wheeler manufacturer and sold more vehicles in April than anyone else within 5 months of starting deliveries. Also, Ola sold more scooters in 5 months than Ather did in 3 years 4 months. Ola sold more vehicles in 5 months than Bajaj and TVS sold in 2 years 4 months.

While Ather, Bajaj, and TVS are blaming it on semiconductors or other parts shortages despite being in the market for 3+ years, Ola is able to deliver more than double that of all these companies combined in April

Sri_tesla, I will admit to being puzzled by your responses and your questions, since you very clearly know the answers to all of them. I dont know why you keep diverting the discussions on Ola to bring in the competition, when nobody else is talking about the competition. Cynics would say that it is falling back on the Ugly Friend theory.

Nonetheless, to jog your memory, here are some facts
- Ola's factory is supposed to have an initial capacity of 2 million units per year in the Phase 1 alone. I will come back to this. Link (Ola wants to build the world’s largest two-wheeler factory).
- Phase 1 is nearing completion in June 2021. Link.
- Production to begin in July as per Bhavish. Link.
- Bookings delayed by a week in September due to technical issues. Link.
- Deliveries to start in November. Link.
- No deliveries in November. Link.
- Less than 250 scooters delivered in December. Link.
- Ola registers 12,683 units in April 2022. Link.
- Now lets go back to the first point. It is 11 months since Bhavish claimed that the phase 1 of the factory was nearing completion. Lets assume that it got completed in July 2021. As per the numbers that Ola themselves claimed, they will manufacture 2 million scooters per year. Lets put that in simple numbers that everyone can understand. 2 million = 20 lakhs. So that is 2,000,000 scooters per annum. To achieve that, they should manufacture 1,66,666 scooters per month. That is the target set by Ola. Not by me.
- You seem to be pleased by Ola's numbers in April. The reported number is 12,683 units. However, as per their own targets, they should be doing 1,66,666 units per month. By simple math, that is a 7.6 % achievement rate of their own publicly stated targets.
- Any management guru will tell you that 7.6% achievement rate is a failure. Any college student will tell you that 7.6% achievement rate is a failure.

If there are facts that I am unaware of, regarding Ola's production numbers and how they will meet their 2,000,000 scooters by July number, that you would like to share, then please do so. I am happy to learn from you.

If you want to share Ather's, Bajaj's or TVS's inability to meet their stated targets, as I have done so above, please feel free to do so, on those threads.

Originally Posted by sri_tesla

The reverse issue is fixed through software update version 1.0.16 which was released in the middle of March as per Ola Engineer. For December, and January deliveries Ola technicians will visit the homes and updated the software. For later batches, 1.0.16 is released through OTA. There was a poll conducted on the Ola owners club telegram group if this issue is really fixed with 1.0.16. No one got the reverse issue after this version. All the new scooters from the end of March are already coming with 1.0.16.

Has Ola made any claims that they have resolved the reverse issue through an OTA update? Has Ola even acknowledged the reverse issue in public? Or is this information that you received through your contacts?

Originally Posted by sri_tesla

If you follow that user's initial tweets, Ola responded to him privately and offered to service the vehicle also even though it's not Ola's fault. But the guy actually criticized Ola on Twitter and asked to share the data publicly.

As others have mentioned, the gentleman's twitter feed is a goldmine of information. I request anyone interested to check out this link and make up your own mind on user feedback.

Originally Posted by sri_tesla

I am sorry, but you are hoping for Ola's success is just pure comedy.

You were defending the Chinese imported scooters when many forum members including mods raised safety concerns about these scooters. Not a single post from you criticizing the numerous fires happening with these scooters and not a single post on the EV scooter fires thread. But you don't miss any chance to mention the Ola incident.

I urge you to read (The Chinese Scooter Thread | Products from small & unknown brands) what I had actually posted and look at it in the context of what was being discussed in the thread. If there is something that you would like to contradict from that post, please feel free to quote me and we can have a productive discussion on that corresponding thread.

Originally Posted by sri_tesla

As per you, Ola should start producing 2 million vehicles from day 1. Delivery should happen the next day after payment. But these targets only apply to Ola.

My friend, have I ever made such a claim on either front? I am struggling to understand what has caused you to say this. I have simply pointed out that the company looks set for failure on their targets. Which were set in public. Im not referring to some confidential internal documents that are out of the public purview. 2 million vehicles per annum is the number published by Ola. They arent going to meet their numbers.

And before you think that I am unfairly targetting Ola on this front, go back through the different threads on this forum. You will find that I have criticized Bajaj for falling on it's face with its Dominar, on the sales front as well. Same point. Different manufacturer.

Originally Posted by sri_tesla

If Ather delivers 4 months after booking or 1-2 months after full payment then that's fine. If Chetak increases prices by 50% and does not honor old prices then that is also good. Ather quality issues (suddenly stopped working, display bubbles, vehicles stopping due to motor heating, parts quality, higher pats costs, pathetic service despite dealerships, etc...) do not matter.

Again, my friend, have I ever made such a claim? Where is all this coming from? I dont recall posting anything regarding this.

[sri_tesla]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Sri_tesla, I will admit to being puzzled by your responses and your questions, since you very clearly know the answers to all of them. I dont know why you keep diverting the discussions on Ola to bring in the competition, when nobody else is talking about the competition. Cynics would say that it is falling back on the Ugly Friend theory.

Funny thing is, I kind of expected that you will say I am diverting from Ola to bring the competition. No company is operating in isolation. Ola or any other company will be compared or judged with competition only. But you repeatedly choose to ignore the negatives of the competition but highlight Ola's. I choose not to reply many times despite you mentioning me directly and asking different things because of the obvious bias in all your comments on this thread. Anyway, I am not an employee or investor, or customer of Ola. No more replies on this from me.

I genuinely hope Ola improves the quality and rectifies all the issues and becomes successful. Similarly, I hope the other companies (Ather, Bajaj, TVS, etc...) also become very successful with their EVs. I am not pretending.

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

My friend, have I ever made such a claim on either front?

You will find that I have criticized Bajaj for falling on it's face with its Dominar, on the sales front as well. Same point. Different manufacturer.

Again, my friend, have I ever made such a claim? Where is all this coming from? I dont recall posting anything regarding this.

To be fair, I don't think anyone here tracks others posts, the general sentiment is understood through your numerous posts against OLA. I don't even remember what you claimed before, I dont read ICE 2W threads.

BTW, a factory ready for 2 million vehicles is different to making 2 million vehicles which also require your suppliers help, which I believe is not so easy for a start up. Why? Suppliers will not add new manufacturing for a start up.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by sri_tesla

Funny thing is, I kind of expected that you will say I am diverting from Ola to bring the competition. No company is operating in isolation. Ola or any other company will be compared or judged with competition only. But you repeatedly choose to ignore the negatives of the competition but highlight Ola's. I choose not to reply many times despite you mentioning me directly and asking different things because of the obvious bias in all your comments on this thread.

What you seem to be missing about @NeilJericho's point is this thread is on Ola S1 review. This is not an Ola vs the competition thread. Your posts otherwise are extremely useful but it's about time we all call out the elephant in the room for what it is.

Everyone wants Ola to succeed - more the competition in the market, better for us consumers. But Ola definitely is in a very poor state and not very confidence inspiring for customers. This is from a potential customer who canceled an Ola booking (500+20k deposits paid) after waiting for 4+ months.

[srini1785]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

- hid from user complaints of battery drain and scooters going in reverse (major self inflicted wound)

When CDI was introduced, there were instances of 2 strokes going in the reverse. I am not sure what type of motor is used in a OLA but its mighty easy to reverse a motor than an IC engine. Just reverse the polarities and you go backwards. Works with both BLDC and normal DC motors.

Originally Posted by sri_tesla

The breakdown is most likely due to the battery percentage sudden drop from 20 or 30% to 0%. The battery percentage shown on the dashboard is not updated if the scooter is kept idle for a few days. As with any electric scooter, there is some idle drop per day. Only after reboot, the dashboard is being updated with the actually available battery percentage.

The way a BMS algorithm works is complex and i am not a software guy. The BMS samples the current and voltage continuously (even when the vehicle is idle). It comes to a conclusion on how much energy went into the battery during charging and how much of it was spent during riding to arrive at the state of charge. Its a complex process to write a code that matches the a real time system accurately since components like battery and contacts loose their properties as they age. There is every chance of something going wrong as some components like heat dissipation and grounding leakages are approximations and not real time figures. I am pretty sure that OLA has not installed any sensors to check the ground leakage. So OLA still is in the initial phases of getting this process right and reliable. Our own IC vehicles were not as reliable as they are now some 30 years back.

[Pigcee]

My EV experience is limited to extensively riding my cousin's Ather 450 which I always enjoy, and also have ridden the kit scooters, a relative got an Okinawa praise pro+ and it's thoroughly disappointing.

Was following the ola news since the start and was genuinely impressed by the spec sheet, initial reviews kept me away but seeing more of them on Bangalore roads made me go for it the second time around .

Got my S1 Pro delivered on May 4th, had booked it on March 18th.

I had paid entire amount (1.4l approx ) during booking, got the dispatch date as April 29th. Dispatched on 28th, insurance from ola itself and registration done from the local RTO, they sent an employee to get my signature on the documentation. Got a call on 3rd saying they'll deliver the next day and arrived on 4th.

The scooter arrived on a small truck, was secured with sturdy bars and packaged well. Thankfully no scratches or damage . The personnel were helpful and whole process took half hour.

My initial impressions are based on the 50km I covered in 2 days.

Initial impressions:

The good part:

The scooter looks stunning , the features are intuitive and the bootspace just gobbles up everything. Infact it came with two half helmets, the charger and a vehicle cover all in the boot!

I was skeptical about the keyless start ,but now I find it cumbersome to use keys on my other vehicles, I predict this will catch on with the other competitors too.

The scooter is genuinely quick on Hyper mode , but i find the normal mode quite adequate for Bangalore traffic . A steep incline with a pillion demands sport or hyper mode.

The not so good part:

Build quality isn't really the best , but it's comparable to the competition. Will have to see long term.
And the true range seems to be around 100km , which is still adequate without range anxiety. Will definitely do a long ride soon. Also I reset the scooter for the true range, it drops by 4-5% overnight which doesn't show up on the display.

Was riding in hyper mode once and got a message about shifting to normal mode due to high temperature, happened once so far.

And the worst thing about this scooter is the image the public seems to have about it. I had to explain people that it's not a ticking bomb that'll just explode . No, it doesn't catch fire easily and it's really not as bad as people seem to think. People love to hate Ola now. Would recommend they try it first.

My scooter runs 1.0.16 and the reverse issue seems solved now , which was present in the first lot.

Conclusion:

I would recommend everybody to try the scooter , and everybody who's ridden it also feels that it's overall a good product.

For the price , it's a good scooter with a 100km+ range.
Will post a proper review after I put on some good distance on it.

Now for the pictures.