[whitewing]

Originally Posted by srivibhu

While the reply is good ..

Originally Posted by niteshsharmab

While everyone is cheering ola for their response. I'm still not convinced at all

In addition to the privacy concerns.

Given that the scooter needs reboot to recover from niggles (the scooter mixing up reverse&forward modes (Ola S1 Electric Scooter Review)), which on surface atleast it appears that there is an issue in recognizing the drive mode.
I wonder what the telemetry data would indicate in such scenarios? The physical state of the drive mode or the mode that the scooter "thought" was engaged?
How does one trust that the telemetry info captured is not having gaps in its implementation and does not suffer from say, latency issues?


Would have been welcome if the company would be as transparent in publishing the data related to

1. Erroneous engaging of reverse mode incidents.
2. Related telemetry information on the battery/charging systems when the fires occurred.

However, if the data is accurate, this hopefully reduces insurance premiums for safe drivers who opt for it. Although in a previous poll the forum members were overwhelmingly against the data being used by insurers for discounts for safe drivers (Would you share your data & allow tracking for insurance discounts?) (~80% voted they are not comfortable sharing info, out of ~180 participants).

[Shumi_21]

It's hard to determine the cause of the accident because there are many variables at play here. For example, what were the road conditions and more importantly the lighting conditions as the crash took place in the night. The "panic braking" Ola refers to might as well be the rider spotting an unmarked speed breaker too late. We've all been there.

The deceleration 80-0 in 2-3 seconds at the end probably indicates the time the scooter may have crashed and scraped to a halt.

The only thing that we can unambiguously conclude from the graph is that the scooter was being ridden enthusiastically, i.e, the rider was either on the brakes or accelerating in the given timeframe. Sound familiar? As a forum of enthusiasts, we do enjoy riding our motorcycles/scooters/cars "enthusiastically" at least once in a blue moon if not all the time, right?

Now, Ola has chosen to insinuate that the rider was "overspeeding", hence all fault lies with the rider. The data they've shared certainly does contradict the customer's version of the events.

But I'm really concerned that this response from Ola would become a standard template for all manufacturers to deflect blame even when their product would be at fault. Everyone has been "enthusiastic" at some point and no one drives/rides at a constant 40 km/hr always and everytime. Who's stopping the manufacturer from (mis)using the data, and accusing you of "overspeeding" as and when it suits them?

[TorqueyTechie]

^^^ From the data which OLA has shared scooter was ridden at >100KMPH speeds which IS over speeding! I don't think its wrong on their part to blame the rider. They are not accusing the rider blindly here or "as and when it suits them".

If you want to overspeed (or enthusiastically as mentioned), one can take it to track or do it on a private road. If not be prepared for injuries or more. Blaming the manufacturer for a dumb move is incorrect I feel.

[Shumi_21]

Originally Posted by TorqueyTechie

^^^ From the data which OLA has shared scooter was ridden at >100KMPH speeds which IS over speeding! I don't think its wrong on their part to blame the rider. They are not accusing the rider blindly here or "as and when it suits them".

If you want to overspeed (or enthusiastically as mentioned), one can take it to track or do it on a private road. If not be prepared for injuries or more. Blaming the manufacturer for a dumb move is incorrect I feel.

Not blaming the manufacturer here. Not defending the rider too. It's after all the rider's prerogative to use the vehicle responsibly under all conditions.

I'm just raising a concern what/who stops the manufacturer (all of them, not singling out Ola) from blaming the customer when it's not rider error. From the current standpoint, it seems nothing at all.

Taking forward your example, I go to the track and ride at high speeds to my heart's content and while returning from the track I have an accident because something on my vehicle failed. The manufacturer (again could be any one of them, not singling out one) might as well say I was overspeeding and that's what caused the accident. Again, I'm just pointing out, how manufacturers have the ability to release data as and when it suits them. Which is what has happened in this case.

[nish6474]

Ola released this document after the parent of the kid said that the scooter malfunctioned- the father's version of the story was that the son tried slowing down and opted for manual regen option by twisting the throttle clockwise, the throttle increased unexpectedly rather than decreasing, thereby causing an accident.
How did the bike go from 80-0 in 3 seconds? The kid may have panic braked and the rear wheel got locked and the scooter started skidding and he eventually lost balance and hit the ground. Ola's speedo sensor is mounted to the rear wheel from where it gets the readings.
The throttle input to the motor is cut off even on the slightest touch of the brakes.
Now coming to the tracking part of the story- I am sure the ECU's on our cars also store the logs and the manufacturer can access the logs and deny liability in certain cases. A lot of VW-SKoda owners can relate to this.
I feel we are moving towards an era where the user wants all the data on their smartphone and the manufacturers want user data to fine tune their product.

[igemini]

Just curious about the data collected by each of these manufacturers. It seems privacy was a thing in the past. Now each and every company want data from the users. Let it be cars, scooters, search engines, websites and whatnot.

Tracking everywhere.

This is a double-sided sword and those who support the data collection are either too naive or someone who believes to be benefited from the data collection.

Maybe in this case we might feel that OLA did the right thing by publishing the data and saving themselves from painting bad by others due to this mishap. Well, I am against it but others will have a different opinion for sure.

[skrao]

Has anyone looked at the graphs, they seem manipulated especially the X-Axis, this looks like it was edited to make it look more dramatic than the data actually suggests. Also going after the little guy is never good for corporates. The dictum of "customer is king" holds good even today.

[ambandla]

Originally Posted by skrao

Has anyone looked at the graphs, they seem manipulated especially the X-Axis, this looks like it was edited to make it look more dramatic than the data actually suggests. Also going after the little guy is never good for corporates. The dictum of "customer is king" holds good even today.

Whether x axis is manipulated or not. There are two points:
1. Speeds way above safe limit.
2. Panic braking.

We should not forget that the father guy overly dramatized the whole incident, twisted facts. Either this or the kid lied to father to escape further punishment. We all know how Indian fathers are when it comes to kids doing stupid things.

One good thing that came out of this incident is the father's twitter fees. This guy is collecting all the issues happening for Ola s1 owners and retweeting them. One single link to know all the QA issues with Ola S1 Pro and majority of them are baffling. Ola should take a page out of their rulebook and provide reports for every one of these incident as to why those are happening. Only then, I can say "good job, Ola". If they provide details, log and response for incident where they did not do anything wrong and stay mum for everything else, I would not even think of going to them to buy future vehicle.

[whitewing]

I'm surprised that many members are assuming the telemetry data is accurate - this from a bike which thinks it has to backwards, when the user thinks it has been asked it to go forward. Of course the users could be at fault, if ola was kind enough to publish that data as well.
Just because data is logged, and put in a nice graph, it does not mean that it has captured the real world data accurately.

I'm not condoning reckless driving. Infact I dread the time when these EVs will get used to do wheelie stunts. With IC bikes, the sound of the modded silencers would give forewarning to other users of the road, unlike these EVs which at most cause a whine.

[skrao]

Originally Posted by ambandla

Whether x axis is manipulated or not. There are two points:
1. Speeds way above safe limit.
2. Panic braking.

We should not forget that the father guy overly dramatized the whole incident, twisted facts. Either this or the kid lied to father to escape further punishment. We all know how Indian father's are when it comes to kids doing stupid things.

I would still say Ola has handled this in a heavy manner, and manipulation of data shows something is fishy

[Brumby]

Software based electric propulsion (road, air or water) is not reliable period.

I am working on ships with most advanced electric propulsions made specifically for ice breaking (5m thick ice), even there we frequently encounter issues, sometimes petty ones and of serious nature at other. Considering the kind of environment those ships operate in (designed for operation under -50 deg C), there should be literally no failures.

The biggest incident was when the current meant for two of the azipods (propulsion motor+steering unit) was diverted to a single motor resulting in loss of complete azipod motor.

It was later accepted by the maker that the cause was in the programming and could not be imagined that this too could happen.

Electronics as such are not so reliable, specially where high vibrations and temperature is involved.

Software has a limitation to the imagination of the programmers involved. It all depends how many of the permutations and combinations of various scenarios that the team can imagine about. Something similar to risk assessment.

The safety of propulsion system of software based vehicles depends on the programming team developing the software.

[shortbread]

Well the telemetry doesn't look like the rider has been sensible, but will let authorities make the judgement.

Now coming to the privacy issue..... he wasn't running rings around his own farmhouse, was he?

This was on public roads, where all and sundry can see, cctv's or dash cams could be present etc... Had he run into a citizen, would we be arguing for the company to hide the information? In the recent past a state bus ran over two bike riders and killed them intentionally. Team bhpian's dashcam footage helped find the victims family some justice.

Was he supposed to hide the footage fearing the state bus driver's privacy?

Originally Posted by sri_tesla

Ola replied to the incident with data. The rider was overspeeding throughout the ride going 100+ kmph and at the time of accident riding at 95 kmph at a speed breaker.

Attachment 2299357

Source:
https://twitter.com/OlaElectric/stat...04pnrHrXA&s=08

[vishu2xll]

Originally Posted by whitewing

I'm surprised that many members are assuming the telemetry data is accurate - this from a bike which thinks it has to backwards, when the user thinks it has been asked it to go forward. Of course the users could be at fault, if ola was kind enough to publish that data as well.
Just because data is logged, and put in a nice graph, it does not mean that it has captured the real world ..

Precisely, why do we automatically assume that the data provided by OLA to be true. If it's indeed true, then they should've involved an independent agency to carry out the post-crash investigation.

[giri1.8]

Thinking heavy surveillance will lead to a better world, is like thinking giving free money to everyone can make the economy better. It's not that simple.

As few pointed out, data was no where to be seen where OLA was at fault, when it was the end user's mistake, they immediately published the data and washed their hands off. Unbelievable ethics!

There should always be a balance between safety and freedom, reality is different from the benefits we see in paper.

Hopefully can enjoy the benifits of instant torque without all the tracking.

[ASP_73]

What would you say about lakhs of cars installed with after market (grey market) trackers. The hardware of most of it comes from China and data logging server locations unknown. User consent agreements nowhere in place.

The Ola situation is far better, there must be all user agreements in place related to data privacy.

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

I don't get it either. A scooter upon headon collision has all the front panels, even the mudguard, mirrors and handles undamaged and perfectly aligned in place, but just the suspension is broken. And the wheel has moved outward and not inward after a head-on collision...I don't get it.

Can you please share the head-on collision news link? All the news I read so far is about scooter hitting the speed breaker.