[Equus]

Originally Posted by RS_DEL

Amongst the well informed and affluent automobile buyers the general perception is that Toyota products are boring, stodgy but go on and on. Does that equate to snob value? If so that is very enlightening indeed!

Now go down to the average Joe at whom the vehicle is targeted. What are they getting ? A vehicle which carries with itself the promise of a relatively hassle free ownership courtesy it's lineage. I do not say this promise will be delivered upon. I say this is the expectation. If this expectation is not belied, it is my hunch the volumes that this product will garner will be enviable. Will I be proven wrong? It is very much possible, as I do not have the powers to divine what is in the minds of the prospective buyers and how well the vehicle will perform as it ages. So let us give it the benefit of the daabut ( as the late Peter Sellers would say ) shall we?

What I do find quite amusing if not downright hilarious is, when people take a definitive stand and proclaim it's failure as a certainty! If that is indeed the case then the entire setup at Toyota Kirloskar is manned by imbeciles and needs to junked and maybe some of our esteemed members appointed to run the show on behalf of Toyota in India.

Brilliant Plato-like response - 5*s!!

While its perfectly fine to have an opinion, folks (me included, offcourse) are going over-board with their predictions. Only time will tell!

[blackasta]

Originally Posted by RS_DEL

What I do find quite amusing if not downright hilarious is, when people take a definitive stand and proclaim it's failure as a certainty! If that is indeed the case then the entire setup at Toyota Kirloskar is manned by imbeciles and needs to junked and maybe some of our esteemed members appointed to run the show on behalf of Toyota in India.

They are neither imbeciles nor fools - but businessmen with their eyes wide open and mind fully functional to nip / tuck every feature the absence of which causes a furor within Tbhp but goes unnoticed by the not-so-discerning rest - take the case of uncovered wheel wells and single wiper.

[Sai Narayan]

You Keep rocking GTO! Review was awesome and mind blowing as usual.
Kudos, Thank you loads.

[mdsaab]

When i had visited the Toyota showroom last. I had taken a look at the Corolla and the Etios.
The Etios doors felt very light, and the thud when closing was not a pleasant sound either. The only thing i liked about the Etios was the steering wheel.
It seems that the folks at Toyota have assumed, this is where the owners hands are going to be most of the time. Let's make this special.
and going by the review. If the Etios felt built to a price. The Liva seems to be one notch lower.
Have not driven either, but this is my gut feeling.

[Carb]

Great review yet again GTO

Although built to a price, when the Liva is compared to other premium hatches in the same range, it does seem very competant.... Including the interiors!!! And as mentioned by GTO, performance is cool!!! 18.31 kmpl by ARAI is an amazing figure for a premium hatch... Best-in-class indeed!!! 0-60 kmph takes 5.9s (5.6s for Swift ZXi, 5.8s for i20 Asta, 6.4s for Polo Highline and Figo Titanium) Not BAD!!! And with all that space, one could put a Nano inside

[tj123]

Liva seems to be getting good response , over 1000 bookings in 2 days..read on

Quick View

[fluidic_fan]

Excellent 5 * review as always GTO. Liva looks promising. Any idea on the initial waiting periods? I see this going the Etios sedan way atleast in the beginning because of the huge hype...

[naut]

Originally Posted by tj123

Liva seems to be getting good response , over 1000 bookings in 2 days..read on

Quick View

The ETIOS sedan managed to get ~1100 bookings per DAY when it was launched in Dec '10.

Here's the link. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post2170734

Lots of things have changed between then and now. A major factor is the borrowing costs. Multiple interest rate hikes by RBI have significantly impacted the auto sales.

Would be interesting to see if the Hatch manages to beat the sedan in the intial bookings by one weeks time.

Keeping fingers crossed!

[Carb]

Originally Posted by fluidic_fan

Excellent 5 * review as always GTO. Liva looks promising. Any idea on the initial waiting periods? I see this going the Etios sedan way atleast in the beginning because of the huge hype...

It might be a bit of a fit. But, Toyota have already manufactured around 1000+ pre-launch vehicles production vehicles. So, the initial waiting period is going to be quite lesser, compared to the Etios sedan.

[anu21v]

Originally Posted by RS_DEL

Amongst the well informed and affluent automobile buyers the general perception is that Toyota products are boring, stodgy but go on and on. Does that equate to snob value? If so that is very enlightening indeed!.

Originally Posted by RS_DEL

What I do find quite amusing if not downright hilarious is, when people take a definitive stand and proclaim it's failure as a certainty! If that is indeed the case then the entire setup at Toyota Kirloskar is manned by imbeciles and needs to junked and maybe some of our esteemed members appointed to run the show on behalf of Toyota in India.

I truly liked your well informed comments. Already thanked there.

But sincerely on your that definition of snob value, consider this
• Cost-cutting glaringly obvious in many areas
• Economy-grade interior quality & unconventional dashboard
• Low on Equipment List
• Poor NVH. Engine, suspension & road noise are prominent (all above Picked from review page, thanks GTO)
• Really boring frontal design, what is that face. Dont want to even comment, ample comments on Etios thread. Not sure who really is liking this in the era of Vernas, Fiestas.
• Uninspiring dash an quirky placement of speedos. A/C controls (Are we in 90s again). Single Wiper. (what).
• Lower than Suzuki Swift Performance. Better 1.2 engines available in markets today by almost entire competition.
• Feather Light weight, not sure which crash performance it conforms to.
• Straight Ribbed Roof panel - which ofcourse is a glaring cost cutting measure. Hell we raised question on Poor Micra, atleast those elliptical ribbed roof gave a hint of styling.
• Non availability of diesel. At the Mid variant's price point one can get Figo Diesel, which comes with all such features and similar size with a decent quality.

All this and still the lowest variant which people would want to buy is at 4.59 L (3.99 Lakh comes without even basic necessity of power steering) which is atleast 50 thousand premium to Suzuki Swift. If this is not snob value than what is. All this in the name of quality which on quality plank may not differ by more than 10-30 points on J.D. Power IQS and Long term reliability.


This is not to suggest that I want to snub toyota and I truly feel that even though Liva may not become segment topper but surely it will sell really well with Indian masses and there would be a quite a few takers, not sure if the informed ones are one of them.

As a prospective customer and as a T-BHPian, even when we crib about Jazz's price point we still like its styling, feature and hazaar other small but significant differentiating details. Now thats an aspirational vehicle. That definitely is not the case with this Liva.

I am one of those who are doubtful whether a consumer can see more value in Liva than i20 and Polo. Though I am equally sure Toyota would have thought out this well in advance and are very much prepared to take the fight to competition.

[fiat_tarun]

Originally Posted by RS_DEL

What I do find quite amusing if not downright hilarious is, when people take a definitive stand and proclaim it's failure as a certainty! If that is indeed the case then the entire setup at Toyota Kirloskar is manned by imbeciles and needs to junked and maybe some of our esteemed members appointed to run the show on behalf of Toyota in India.

I feel this expression that the car will fail is more what one secretly wishes! The feeling is that manufactures take customers for granted and adopt such glaring cost cutting measures and still go laughing all the way to the bank.

If it does fail because of these very reasons, maybe then manufacturers (especially those with badge value) may better equip their cars and offer more value to the customer.

[RS_DEL]

Originally Posted by anu21v

I truly liked your well informed comments.hough Liva may not become segment topper but surely it will sell really well with Indian masses and there would be a quite a few takers, not sure if the informed ones are one of them. ure Toyota would have thought out this well in advance and are very much prepared to take the fight to competition.

My friend you have the right to accuse Toyota of using it's perceived reputation as a quality automobile manufacturer as an excuse to provide a product where they have an uninspiring design, poor ergonomics, flimsy quality of materials etc etc.I have no quarrel with that. That still does not equate to snob value for me. Matter of fact where is the snob value in buying an entry level product? To me snob value comes into the equation when someone moves up the value chain. But then I guess we define it differently so let us agree to disagree.


Unlike the vast majority of the buyers/potential buyers/observers, you have paid this level of attention to detail in your review or have had access to a review by a seasoned reviewer, and therefore your examination of the product will be more rigorous/critical than that of the majority. The volumes will come from the majority. That is my point no more no less.

If after the initial buying the usage experience of the buyers is satisfactory, with reference to both product and service quality, then Toyota will laugh all the way to the bank. I also know if the usage experience is crappy Toyota or no Toyota, the sales volume will start tapering off. They will find themselves in the same predicament as Honda is today, for both are asking the customer to pay more than what the customer thinks they deserve for their respective products. For this to happen it will take time.

[Mpower]

Great review!

Toyota is following Tata's strategy from 10 years ago (Indica). Big on space, low rent cabin and competitive price. After Vista, clearly even TATA does not want to follow this strategy anymore.

So we look forward to the Liva diesel now.

[vinya_jag]

The person sitting next to me now, who has driven 10K kms in 10 years in his second hand M800 car says "Liva is a great car, its a Toyota" when a kid next to him asked "How is this new car Liva?"

I poke my nose in and say: "Why do you think so?"

He says "Why not, wasn't the Qualis a great car? Their engines are good, long running"

Thats Snob value

Its the word of mouth.
He probably got that from his great Uncle 15 years back; when other cars were breaking down more often than Toyotas.

[anu21v]

Originally Posted by RS_DEL

My friend you have the right to accuse Toyota of using it's perceived reputation as a quality automobile manufacturer as an excuse to provide a product where they have an uninspiring design, poor ergonomics, flimsy quality of materials etc etc.I have no quarrel with that. That still does not equate to snob value for me. Matter of fact where is the snob value in buying an entry level product? To me snob value comes into the equation when someone moves up the value chain. But then I guess we define it differently so let us agree to disagree.


Unlike the vast majority of the buyers/potential buyers/observers, you have paid this level of attention to detail in your review or have had access to a review by a seasoned reviewer, and therefore your examination of the product will be more rigorous/critical than that of the majority. The volumes will come from the majority. That is my point no more no less.

If after the initial buying the usage experience of the buyers is satisfactory, with reference to both product and service quality, then Toyota will laugh all the way to the bank. I also know if the usage experience is crappy Toyota or no Toyota, the sales volume will start tapering off. They will find themselves in the same predicament as Honda is today, for both are asking the customer to pay more than what the customer thinks they deserve for their respective products. For this to happen it will take time.

I have to say, I didn't strictly went by the dictionary definition of 'snob value'. My initial comment of snob value was more a light hearted mimic of the what i wanted to mean, 'brand value'.

No need for agreeing to disagree I assume.