[VeluM]

Originally Posted by Alakiri

My problem is when i tried convincing my parents and relatives about the Zest, they strongly recommended me against any product from Tata and told that they don't age well.

Originally Posted by Alakiri

My cousin even told me that water would seep inside the car once the car gets old and that I have to pour buckets of water outside the car prior to every start

I think they're talking about leaky door seals during the rains. Their concerns stem from the fact that they don't want you to spend money one something that will bring you trouble. Not something most family members will wish on you, so understandable. Since you plan to buying the car next year, there will be plenty of 2+ year old examples by then to show/quote.

I know that the Zest is a rattle-free and well-built vehicle from personal experience, but reliability is a concern because I have like you read opinions and feedback from other BHPians and taken a risk (in my and my family's opinion). Like others, I will post issues on this thread so you will be better informed by the time you wish to buy.

Originally Posted by Alakiri

Will definitely get the Zest XTA and the GOLD AMC.

Do they give a 5 year warranty as well? Should we insist/bargain for the same or will we be getting it if we pay more?

When we purchased the XT Revotron, the dealers informed us of Gold and Silver AMC packages, and also of the extended warranty, which is different.

The dealer didn't recommend AMC, and said that we should opt for the extended warranty in case of issues rather than effectively paying up front for service that may not be necessary (because our running is expected to be low). Now this can be taken as confidence that we wouldn't need to visit the ASC often, or as insurance for any product defects, as one chooses.

We're still considering both, because at the time of purchase the scheme included Silver AMC for free, and we can upgrade to Gold or upgrade the warranty during original validity.

Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj

Unlike Chevrolet - Tata does not advertise much about it's AMC.
&
BIGGEST problem is - the dealers don't know the AMC package costs clearly.

But a fantastic feature loaded car.

I had a different experience, so I'm glad. I agree that the dealers were very poor, but they're getting better - more professional - and it is a really great car at a really good price.

[greenhorn]

Originally Posted by Alakiri

It will be really helpful if any of the proud Zest owners in this forum provide any inputs specially on the 'aging part' of the car. Does the cabin get loose or the plastics inside fade and look old in sometime? Does the exterior finishing of the car fade and look old early?

Most people will say that it is the first generation indica that ages early, and newer products are better built.
As an owner of 2007 Indica, let me share my perspective -
To your questions, Do interior plastics fade/Exterior plastics fade - the answer is a resounding no. I have a black dashboard & my car has been parked in the sun for at least 30% of its life, and its dashboard is still very much black. Though it was repainted sometime in 2009 following a screwed up paintjob.

The interior plastics are sturdy & durable. I treat them with Dashboard cleaners/Protectors, and they look as new as the day I bought them. But they are hard/look rather basic compared to its competitors.

Inside clips/fasteners etc do fall off randomly, and a few are missing - but there are no rattles from the interiors, and certainly less than those from swifts of that period.

The Original Paint in the areas that I have not repainted is still in very good shape, but being white, is hard to tell. Plastics outside have faded a bit, but nothing a bit of shoe polish now and then can't fix.

What has not aged gracefully however, is the engine & drivetrain. Power has fallen gradually with age- I could hit 140 easily when the car was new, and reaching 120 needs a lot of room, though it still reaches 100 effortlessly.
There are random vibrations & noises which keep cropping up in the engine, and while parts are cheap, they don't last that long, and need to be replaced far more frequently than, say a maruti.
I do have a minor leak in my rear hatch, and one in my rear RHS door, but the first was because the TASS used a refurb rear hatch from an old indica to replace my original which was damaged in an accident, and the latter was due to bad alignment which the TASS could not fix - from the same accident. Both of these don't cause any issue during rains, and the leakage happens only when you point water at them while pressure washing using a hose.

You'll see a running theme that there are some problems with my car, but most of them were caused due to Tata's service centers. It's easy to blame them and say it's not the car's fault, but for the first few years, the ownership experience is a combination of both, and you can't separate them.

Compared to my friends who have cars of similar age, my service costs are definitely higher, and include more part replacements/overhauls when compared to wagon R's & Swifts, but the only other diesels of that era are the getz CRDI & the Palio, both of which fare worse.

Provided you do regular maintenance & fix problems promptly, you should not face any major issues. If I were you, I would be concerned about buying a first generation product from Tata - the main concern being the AMT gearbox & Tata's service in general.

After warranty was over, I managed to find a bunch of local Specialists (for AC, Fuel, bodywork etc), and have never set foot in a TASS ever since!

[perty]

Originally Posted by VeluM

I know that the Zest is a rattle-free and well-built vehicle from personal experience,

My experience with the Zest RT XMS has been different.
After ~6 months and ~5500kms there are rattles from the dashboard somewhere around the area where the HK unit sits, the driver window glass rattles and squeaks while moving and the handbrake creaks while engaging it.
Occasionally there is also a squeaking sound from somewhere near the passenger airbag, but this problem seems to appear and disappear on it's own.
I did take it to the service center once for a creaking door problem and they greased the door hinges, after which it went away.


That being said, I'm very happy with the product as the ride quality, driving position and interior space are excellent.
Fuel efficiency of ~16kmpl in city is great.
With TASS, spare part availability and cost is not much of a problem as compared to service personnel competence and commitment.
Compared to my previous car, a Palio, which cost a fortune in terms of time and money to maintain, I'm far more confident about the ease of maintaining the Zest as it ages.

[himarg]

I drove my XT Quadrajet to the hill town of Lavassa today and was shocked with the lack of power and pick up even in the third gear.

Could it be be because of the fact that I tried my best to keep rpm below 2000, as advised for the running in period? Inadvertently, I had to revv higher for negotiating the slope,but I am not very sure about the lack of power being normal or something that needs addressing.

More often than not, I had to shift to second or even first sometimes.

Do I need to get something checked?

[AutoIndian]

Originally Posted by himarg

I drove my XT Quadrajet to the hill town of Lavassa today and was shocked with the lack of power and pick up even in the third gear.

Could it be be because of the fact that I tried my best to keep rpm below 2000, as advised for the running in period? Inadvertently, I had to revv higher for negotiating the slope,but I am not very sure about the lack of power being normal or something that needs addressing.

More often than not, I had to shift to second or even first sometimes.

Do I need to get something checked?

I don't think there is anything wrong with the car. Since you are in the run-in period you were trying to be extra cautious not to rev the engine. Driving in the the ghats is all together different ball game compared to driving in the plains. You have to revv the engine and make frequent gear changes to remain in the power band, which means often downshifting to second or even first gear. In the ghats never let the rpm drop below the 2000 mark, then you will enjoy the curvy ghat roads. I would recommend make couple of more trips to the ghats to get a hang of your machine, then you will start thoroughly enjoying your little beast called Quadrajet.

[VeluM]

Originally Posted by himarg

I drove my XT Quadrajet to the hill town of Lavassa today and was shocked with the lack of power and pick up even in the third gear.
Do I need to get something checked?

Depending on how you drive, a turbo-engine can feel underpowered. Combine that with hill-driving, and one would probably need to learn how to manage the gears better.

In the hills (and Lavasa has some pretty steep climbs), you need to stay in a lower gear than you would normally, and because it is a turbo, you would need to stay above 1750rpm to ensure that you get sufficient pulling power. The trick is to change down before the gear change is required. Change down to second at 30, and first at 15 or 20 when climbing.

Changing down when climbing as one would in the plains, to third when the vehicle slows down to 30 for example, and then attempting to accelerate will just lug the engine and cause more damage that revving the engine beyond the recommended running-in limit.

Also as a side-note, use the same gear for descending as you did to climb a particular section.

If however you were in the correct gear at the right rpm, and the car still didn't pull, I would suggest that you visit the Tata ASC and report it as an issue. Check if there are any other symptoms (excessive exhaust smoke, loss of power in the plains) before reporting.

[vinit]

Originally Posted by himarg

I drove my XT Quadrajet to the hill town of Lavassa today and was shocked with the lack of power and pick up even in the third gear.
===============
Do I need to get something checked?

I dont think, there is anything with the car or the engine. In the diesel engine, the turbo does take a while to kick in and it will be smooth sailing above 2000 RPM. If you are used to drive a petrol car earlier, this driving difference will be much more noticeable.

[himarg]

Thanks all for the valuable feedback and suggestions. I will try taking the car to a few more ghat drives and try to follow the advises aforementioned.

Thanks again.

[The Observer]

Saw this advertisement in TOI's Bangalore edition today and was left wondering if they ( Tata Motors themselves or the Dealership who advertised) could be more responsible in what they portray and intend?. 150 km/hr is illegal on any road/highway in India and why is this getting advertised as a reason to by the Zest? No offence to the manufacturer or the car - i voted for this car in the Team-BHP COY 2014 voting. Hope sense prevails and they do not resort to such means to improve sales.

[deehunk]

It is not right to influence a prospective buyer with claims of such high speed driving which are not legal on road.

[wabbster]

Almost 8000 KMS completed on my Zest XT RT (I call her Toothless) and here are some of my observations:

The Good:

1. Their sales process. I wanted to surprise my wife who had gone out of town for a week. Did a test drive on Monday and got the delivery on Saturday. The loan was processed quickly and the team even threw in a couple of goodies (since I was actually purchasing a Dec 2014 model in Feb 2015). I'm plugging Mr. Manjunath from Prerana Motors (Lalbagh Road), Bangalore, because he is just that awesome.
2. Premium feel on a budget. I owned a Wagon R LXi before this, so I was blown away with the way I felt when I sat in the car.
3. Almost zero NVH. I get very agitated with the noise of honking vehicles and traffic in general in the city. Rolling up the windows and turning the music up to an acceptable level has reduced my road rage considerably!
4. Excellent control at high speeds. Again, when I take my old Wagon R as baseline, I feel so much in control while driving the Zest. At one point during a trip to Chennai, I thought I was cruising at around 100 kmph and my dad sitting at the back seat kept telling me to slow down. Annoyed, I looked at the speedometer and was shocked to see I was actually going at 150 kmph. I'd never touch those speeds if I didn't feel in control. So, kudos.
5. The cool stuff - the DRLs, the geeky DTE and instant FE. This stuff blew my FIL's mind because he simply didn't believe that a car at this price point would have this!
6. The Harman music system. To be honest, this part of the car is what I'm most proud of! I mean, OEM music systems are expected to be crap in this segment. But the Zest has gone above and beyond meeting those expectations. The only problem I seem to face is the sometimes glitchy SMS read-out feature, but nobody messages me anyways!

The Not-so-Good:

1. Gearshift: Maybe it's me resisting to change from the Wagon R, but I find shifting gears to be a bit tough. In the Wagon R, shifting gears was smooth but on the Zest it feels like a slight struggle.
2. Low power: Again, I could be the only one facing this, but there's this problem I face when I slow down the vehicle (say from 50 kmph to around 20 kmph) and shift to the second gear. On the second gear, the power just drops and it's a struggle to get the car moving at a decent speed till the engine crosses 2000 RPM. When I mentioned this at the Service Center (Prerana Motors, Kudlu Gate), I was told that with Tata Cars, when you reduce speed at, say a speed breaker, you shift to first and nod second. Seems like an illogical thing to do in my opinion. Climbing hills (I went to Nandi Hills and Chamundi Hills in Bangalore and Mysore respectively) is a painful thing with this kind of a problem. I use the Sports mode to climb hills and even then, it does not feel right. I don't know how else to explain it.
3. Multidrive: I hardly use either Eco or Sports modes (except when I climb hills, as mentioned above). I sometimes joke that Eco mode is for retirees and Sports mode is for twenty-somethings. But the real reason why I don't use any of those modes is because it just slips my mind. Visually, it's not in my periphery - the buttons are placed below the A/C knobs and I don't like to take my eyes off the road. It's almost as if Tata doesn't want me to use these modes!
4. Headlamps: Grossly inadequate on low-beam. As a responsible driver, I don't like blinding people with high-beam.

The Bad

1. Awful, awful mileage. My first long distance drive (to Chennai) gave me ~15 kms to a liter. Since then it's a downward spiral. My last trip to Mysore two weeks ago returned an avg mileage of 11 kms to a liter. Within the city, I get between 8 & 9 kms to a liter.
2. Quality of the "extras" have not been good. I got a reverse camera installed from Tata Motors during delivery. I've noticed two problems - the back cover is opening up. It could be due to the heat that it's getting melted (the only explanation I have!), but one of the four sides of the back is opening up. I can see the internal wires and chips. The second problem is the way it's fitted on the dashboard. It has already "fall off" twice. Every time I get the same explanation, "Sir the dashboard is too smooth".
3. Which brings me to the last (and biggest) problem - After sales service. After reading the posts here before purchasing, I got the impression that Tata has made giant strides in the after sales service department. This, in fact, was the one of the reasons why I went for the Zest. But I'm yet to see any visible change. I think it's partly due to the fact that they have to deal with a lot of taxi drivers (no offence), that they immediately get defensive when I tell them I have a problem. For instance, when I complained about the low mileage, pat came the reply "Sir, drive in ECO mode!". When I complained about low power when slowing down (as mentioned above), "Sir, put to first gear. It's a Tata car." After sales service really needs to improve. I'm taking my car to the service station this weekend. So, I'm hoping things are a bit different. But no expectations anyways!

I love my Toothless in spite of her shortcomings. In fact, I'm planning an epic road trip with her (~19000 kms). I wouldn't do it if I weren't confident that she could pull it off. I'd recommend the Zest any day. But I'd also warn them about after sales service.

[Eddy]

Originally Posted by wabbster

In fact, I'm planning an epic road trip with her (~19000 kms). .

Wow !!!

Some more details please

[wabbster]

Originally Posted by Eddy

Wow !!!

Some more details please

For now I have only this:

[AutoIndian]

Originally Posted by wabbster

Almost 8000 KMS completed on my Zest XT RT (I call her Toothless) and here are some of my observations:

Thank you for sharing your observations wabbster. On hearing the name "Toothless", I couldn't hold my laughter . What made you give your Zest that name?

The Good:

Their sales process.
Premium feel on a budget.
Almost zero NVH.
Excellent control at high speeds.
The cool stuff - the DRLs, the geeky DTE and instant FE.
The Harman music system.

Very good summary of the pros of the Zest, appreciate you sharing it

The Not-so-Good:

Gearshift:
Low power:
Multidrive:
Headlamps:

Gearshift: Tata's will always struggle to match the gearshift's of the Japanese, Koreans or the Germans. I owned an Indica for 10+ years and we often used to co-relate Indica's gear shift to "moving a stick in concrete". I am sure Zest has far better gear shift, but still it may not be there yet.

Low power: I guess you can overcome this by learning how to drive a turbo-charged car. If you are not in the turbo-zone, you will find that the accelerator inputs are not getting coverted into power at the wheels, most often this is referred to as turbo-lag. When the dealer told you to downshift to first gear while crossing a speebreaker, what he meant was to keep the engine rpm at peak torque else you will feel that there is no power reaching to the wheels
Multidrive: This is one of the USPs of the Zest, wonder why it is not so good. Perhaps TML should have given it a better location (may be on the steering wheel) to increase its visibility
Headlamps: The Vista and the Manza have one of the best OEM lamps (the famed double barrel). By giving the projector set-up have they screwed up that?

The Bad

Awful, awful mileage.
Which brings me to the last (and biggest) problem - After sales service.

You cannot expect great mileage in Bangalore traffic. For once try a mileage run, smooth roads, low traffic, 200-300 kms and then check your mileage. You should get far better figures.
After sales service, it seems the Horizon Next vision of Late Karl Slym has not seen the horizon yet. When will TML learn to incorporate a customer centric approach? They need to make every customer feel special. Toyota customer service is at the opposite end of the spectrum. Only once I rated them 8/10 and there was a deluge of calls to understand why I have deducted the two points. Right from Bangalore head office till my dealer there were at least 10 people working on just one complaint ensuring that the work is done to my fullest satisfaction and they really did it in the end.

I love my Toothless in spite of her shortcomings. In fact, I'm planning an epic road trip with her (~19000 kms). I wouldn't do it if I weren't confident that she could pull it off. I'd recommend the Zest any day. But I'd also warn them about after sales service.

Wishing you the very best for your epic trip

[narayan]

Originally Posted by wabbster

Low power: Again, I could be the only one facing this, but there's this problem I face when I slow down the vehicle (say from 50 kmph to around 20 kmph) and shift to the second gear. On the second gear, the power just drops and it's a struggle to get the car moving at a decent speed till the engine crosses 2000 RPM. When I mentioned this at the Service Center (Prerana Motors, Kudlu Gate), I was told that with Tata Cars, when you reduce speed at, say a speed breaker, you shift to first and nod second.


Awful, awful mileage. My first long distance drive (to Chennai) gave me ~15 kms to a liter. Since then it's a downward spiral. My last trip to Mysore two weeks ago returned an avg mileage of 11 kms to a liter. Within the city, I get between 8 & 9 kms to a liter.

I am just wondering if the above two are related. Being a turbo petrol car, changing gears at the right rpm is important. Hence while all of us are trained to upshift at the soonest in an NA car ( like a Wagon R ) to extract the best mileage, in a turbo car, you need to upshift around the time the turbo kicks in. If you are in the wrong gear, you will face this loss of power situation and due to that you might be pressing the accelerator too much to get some torque out of the engine and in that process compromise FE.

Do check with other Zest members in your city on what FE they get and if possible ride with them to see how you can make small changes to your driving style.

All the best for that epic journey !