[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by vb-san

I liked the plain jane look of the S-Cross. I also loved the quirky looks of the first gen Yeti, which was indeed panned by many. And there maybe many who love the fluidic Verna, but I felt its nothing but an over-styled jazzy automobile. But that does not mean that I should just go on criticizing Hyundai in a way that it was a cardinal sin to launch their Fluidic designs in India.

------

As a few others pointed out, that the S-Cross is in the same space as of the Skoda Yeti in the international markets. In India, if compared with the Yeti 4x2 elegance, the S-Cross does miss out on a couple of safety features (6 airbags, traction control/ESP), but its close to 8 lakhs cheaper (on-road) as well. Never liked Suzuki's model range in India, but I feel this indeed is a right step to the (relatively) premium space.

Looks are always a matter of opinion. Like a lot of people say Aishwarya Rai is pretty. Personally I consider that she has a somewhat "calculating" expression in her mug, which I find detracts from the overall "form".

Back to the S Cross. Yes it is a viable alternative to the Yeti 4x2 Elegance but it would have been a serious alternative had they padded it up some more with features!

If they ever launch the S Cross 4x4 with the 1.6 Turbo Diesel and 320NM of Torque here (if there is such a thing), and load it up nicely with safety and all the gizmos and then price it at about 18/19 lacs, then that car would be a serious alternative to the 4x4 Yeti Elegance which comes to about 27.76 on road Bangalore!

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by adimicra

Apart from the bland looks which is not to my taste, my main grouse with the S-cross is it falls below the expectations set by Maruti in calling it a 'premium' vehicle.

Can you please provide examples of vehicles which you consider premium at the same price point as the S-Cross 1.3 DDiS?

Originally Posted by adimicra

The 1.3 engine in the S-cross is available in half of the cars plying on the Indian roads.Even the 90 PS VGT version is available in cars like Vista/Zest/Punto/SX4/Linea etc. since many years.

True. I'm using a Punto 90hp that has the exact same engine and I wouldn't look at the S-Cross 1.3 as an upgrade option.

But every manufacturer has to resort to such practices. Honda uses the same Diesel engine in Amaze compact sedan, Jazz hatchback, Mobilio MPV and City sedan. Toyota uses the same Diesel engine in liva hatchback, Etios sedan and Corolla premium sedan. Renault uses the same Diesel engine in Duster SUV, Lodgy MPV, Logan / Verito entry level sedan and the Fluence entry level sedan.

The 1.3 is capable even in the S-Cross. And it's not that it's the only engine available either.

Originally Posted by adimicra

Also, other cars from segments below offer more powerful engines - Amaze/Jazz/Aspire/I20 (more torque) and some also offer 6-speed transmission.

Agree on the Aspire totally. It has come as a nice surprise indeed.

There is not much to choose between the i20 diesel and the DDiS 200, except that the Hyundai offers a better refined drive. Amaze and Jazz offer good driveability, but the 0-100 figures are comparable to the 1.3 diesel. Not to mention the fact that they are way too crude and loud compared to the other options here.

I had pasted a comparison earlier. The 1.3 DDiS S-Cross is good enough to take on a higher priced Honda City diesel- be it torque/ weight or 0-100 figures.

Originally Posted by adimicra

Now, the 1.6 seems to be a really powerful engine but for the price they are asking, Maruti should have provided more kit particularly safety features like 6 airbags,ESP etc. and may be some luxury features like sunroof.

Quite simple really. Maruti should not have gone ahead with the imported engine and transmission if they knew the localisation would have hurt them so bad. Guess they were desperate to get a high powered engine to India. Does it make sense to pay so much more than the 1.3? No.

But that doesn't take away from the fact that it still is a brilliant car at that price for people who like to drive. If I look at the diesel manual options that can be pure fun- my mind goes to GT TDI, S-Cross and Jetta as in various segments now. Funnily, neither of these cars offer competitive pricing as an advantage.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by Fornax

Vid, your list is derisionary, but mine is limited to ones found in similiarly priced car in India.

Others, I didnt read most of what you wrote, just sensed a lot of prejudice and bias, and did what others would do too - ignored it.

Sorry if my post sounded biased but I was not able to figure out why your post had list of features that were not available in any of the cars in this segment or above. I am now seeing the features you listed were from the UK spec S-cross as well as from cars sold in India. But that's the problem.

You are expecting that Maruti or any manufacturer throw in every feature available. There is no car manufacturer in India which is doing that. Whether Maruti or Mercedes. This is a sad state of affairs but is the harsh reality.

The Creta has 6 airbags and a whole bunch of nice features but no rear disc brakes, no auto dimming IRVM, auto headlamps, auto wipers, no xenons, no lumbar support and a whole load of other stuff missing.

The S-cross sold in UK has AWD, panoramic roof and a host of other features. The S-cross direct competition in UK is Skoda Yeti, Nissan Qashqai, Vauxhall Mokka. All these crossovers are premium vehicles. The Yeti in India is priced at 27 lakhs for 4X4 and 25 lakhs for 4X2 lower trim. The 4X2 gets a 110PS engine vs the 140 in the 4X2.

Here we are complaining that MSIL has priced the S-cross at 17.5 lakhs on road in some cities. Can you imagine with AWD, sunroof and other features if the S-cross was priced on par with the Yeti at 25 lakhs. Would it have got takers at all?

The biggest grouse I have with MSIL is with removal of 6 airbags and ESP. Apart from these features, the S-cross is fairly well loaded. With the 3 lakhs premium for the 1.6L engine, the 1.6L should have had 6 airbags, ESP as standard to justify the price and with the performance on tap.

If you need all the features, by all means the Yeti is available at 27 lakhs. Till then we have to make do with vehicles like the Ecosport, Creta and now S-cross. Compromises but pricing is decent.

The XUV5OO is the only vehicle which is fully loaded but as I mentioned what you get in features you lose in finesse, reliability and have to be content with niggles and glitches. The recent facelift is itself having a a list of niggles newly introduced vs the older one.

Yes the S-cross doesn't look all that great, yes it's not fully loaded but as an overall package especially the DDiS200 is not all that bad. The DDiS320 is over priced but will deliver on performance.

Would you rather buy a top end Duster and get AWD and ESP but lose out on interior quality and get lesser features? Some probably will as mechanically the AWD system is awesome in the Duster.

Or go with the Creta and lose out on some features but get the styling and premium feel.

The Ecosport is the cheapest but you lose out on space and comfort.

[Turbanator]

If they ever launch the S Cross 4x4 with the 1.6 Turbo Diesel and 320NM of Torque here (if there is such a thing), and load it up nicely with safety and all the gizmos and then price it at about 18/19 lacs,

+ 1 , I hope they have ordered enough of larger engines to Fiat and don't have an option to cancel , they can only come out with 4x4 version only when they see pile of Import engines at plant due to dud sales of 1,6 L . One way to revive this Model is to plonk a 4x4 option with an Auto and target customers from other segments - with new Fortuner , Pajero & Endeavour going to start 25 Lac upwards there will definitely be demand for this kind of 4x4 at price point 17-18 Lac . But it might not be an easy thing given the high costs of such components & the thinking of top management given they are bulk producers and not targeting any niche segments .

[searacer932]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

With all the features mentioned- S cross goes head on against the likes of Skoda Yeti in the international markets.

CD - I am not sure if S-cross with this feature-set competes with Yeti in international market.

Please see the earliest post by Whichcarnow.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post3772312

I am quoting his earlier post when somebody put a similar argument as yours

The international version has got a lot more. 7 Airbags, ESP and other safety features, stylish 17" alloys, panoramic sunroof, rear ac vents, CVT, Allgrip etc etc. That would be a competitor to Yeti. Now obviously they didn't want to compete in that segment so they removed features.

If, they had given 7 airbags, ESP and better alloys, maybe just for the 1.6, I think then they could have justified the pricing and people in general would not be offended by the price. Right now it's 3 lakhs for just a bigger engine. That is just plain absurd.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by searacer932

CD - I am not sure if S-cross with this feature-set competes with Yeti in international market.

Please see the earliest post by Whichcarnow.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post3772312

I am quoting his earlier post when somebody put a similar argument as yours

That's my point buddy. S-Cross in India is cheaper than the 110bhp Yeti 4*2 by a good 8L OTR.

Now we can all argue that Maruti had to give international version features. But here we aren't even ready to pay almost half the price of a Yeti, since it is a Maruti Suzuki. Maruti trimmed the features and prices accordingly.

Taking the current price tag and the competition - S Cross is loaded with a high level of equipment, specially the 1.3 diesel. Don't believe me? Compare a 1.3 Alpha against the likes of Renault Duster or Honda City or even the feature loaded Creta- and see for yourself.

[searacer932]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

That's my point buddy. S-Cross in India is cheaper than the 110bhp Yeti 4*2 by a good 8L OTR.

Now we can all argue that Maruti had to give international version features. But here we aren't even ready to pay almost half the price of a Yeti, since it is a Maruti Suzuki.

Taking the current price tag and the competition - S Cross is loaded with a high level of equipment, specially the 1.3 diesel.

Looks like the Yeti 4x2 itself is hugely over-priced

I think people's disappointment, at least on this forum, is due to the comparison with Creta's price. I believe everyone expected S-cross to undercut the Creta's price. I was seriously considering the 1.6 DDiS as my next upgrade but I think it's seriously over-priced. And I am not sure for how many people the 1.3 DDiS would be a serious upgrade. May be, for the first time car buyer and may be somebody who is upgrading from an 'A segment hatch' the 1.3 DDiS would be a good upgrade. For people who are already used to to the 1.3 MJD in various avatars (Swfit, Dzire, Ritz, Vista etc) I am really not sure if they would go for again the DDiS 200. Even if somebody goes the percentage of that movement would be quite low in comparison to people who wanted to move to DDiS 320 as their next logical upgrade.

[adimicra]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Can you please provide examples of vehicles which you consider premium at the same price point as the S-Cross 1.3 DDiS?


But every manufacturer has to resort to such practices. Honda uses the same Diesel engine in Amaze compact sedan, Jazz hatchback, Mobilio MPV and City sedan. Toyota uses the same Diesel engine in liva hatchback, Etios sedan and Corolla premium sedan. Renault uses the same Diesel engine in Duster SUV, Lodgy MPV, Logan / Verito entry level sedan and the Fluence entry level sedan.

The 1.3 is capable even in the S-Cross. And it's not that it's the only engine available either.

There is not much to choose between the i20 diesel and the DDiS 200, except that the Hyundai offers a better refined drive. Amaze and Jazz offer good driveability, but the 0-100 figures are comparable to the 1.3 diesel. Not to mention the fact that they are way too crude and loud compared to the other options here.

I had pasted a comparison earlier. The 1.3 DDiS S-Cross is good enough to take on a higher priced Honda City diesel- be it torque/ weight or 0-100 figures.

But how many cars are advertised so much as 'premium' vehicle? Maruti even opened separate dealerships to deal with their 'premium' vehicle.

Well, I am not calling the S-cross 1.3 as bad or not competitive enough. Some people might find it VFM or ddecent. But there's nothing much premium about it when the engine and transmission is just plain average and similar or better options available even in lower segments.

Even if you compare with the 1.4 diesel mill from the I20, it offers better refinement, higher torque and 6-speed gearbox. And this is a car that is positioned well below the S-cross.

What I am saying is that there is nothing premium about the engine and gearbox for the 1.3 and they priced the 1.6 way too higher. The main thing premium about the S-cross was the 1.6 engine. The 1.3 engine doesn't suit a premium vehicle. It's too mundane and average! The 1.6 at a lower price or at the same price with more safety kit and features would be worth the 'premium' tag!

Anyways, just a point of view.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by adimicra

But how many cars are advertised so much as 'premium' vehicle? Maruti even opened separate dealerships to deal with their 'premium' vehicle.

Which other manufacturer has 16 different models in their portfolio? Even forgetting models like Gypsy and Grand Vitara- they had 13 models to display in their existing showrooms before the launch of S-Cross. Not something a 15L customer would prefer.

Hyundai will run into this problem soon as well. The local Hyundai showroom in my area has 4 stories now so that can display all models. Another 3 new launches and a Sante Fe customer is sure to get irritated.

That said- I agree with your points on the 1.6L.

[arun_josie]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Which other manufacturer has 16 different models in their portfolio? Even forgetting models like Gypsy and Grand Vitara- they had 13 models to display in their existing showrooms before the launch of S-Cross. Not something a 15L customer would prefer.

This is one of the reason, I liked about NEXA. The Maruti showrooms are already cramped with many cars on display, especially after Ciaz and Celerio launch. Also, crowded during the weekends. So, at some point there was a need to split their showrooms and good they did it with S-Cross.

[sandygordon]

The problem I am facing now is the difficulty in convincing myself that DDIS 200 alpha /zeta is a logical upgrade from my 2009 dzire.

Add to that, I am afraid of the 'play-station' handling in a Hyundai. I have asked for a TD of the creta 1.6 once more.

Feels like I ll cancel both bookings.

[VMehta]

Originally Posted by sandygordon

The problem I am facing now is the difficulty in convincing myself that DDIS 200 alpha /zeta is a logical upgrade from my 2009 dzire.

Why not wait for the YRA ? Although I don't think it would be able to hold as much luggage as the dzire does but still it will have a decent amount of space.

Also, I am expecting it to have a similar level of interiors that as the S-Cross does. It will be placed just above Swift. So, I guess it will definitely count as an upgrade!

[rockporiom]

Originally Posted by sandygordon

The problem I am facing now is the difficulty in convincing myself that DDIS 200 alpha /zeta is a logical upgrade from my 2009 dzire.

Add to that, I am afraid of the 'play-station' handling in a Hyundai. I have asked for a TD of the creta 1.6 once more.

Feels like I ll cancel both bookings.

I have owned both the old gen as well as new gen dzire and can tell one thing that the S cross is definately an upgrade in terms of quality and features. You would lose some boot space in the S cross but would gain better rear leg room. The power in the ddis 200 is adequate and is nothing that would make you go wow. The power and torque is enough for daily driving and cruising on the highway while returning great efficiency.

Go for the S cross if you are ready to live with the fact that the 1.3 is just ADEQUATE and nothing more, it will get the job done but at its own pace. Go for the Creta if you want the stylish suv like looks but are ready to live with the infamous Hyundai driving dynamics.

[ampere]

Originally Posted by sandygordon

The problem I am facing now is the difficulty in convincing myself that DDIS 200 alpha /zeta is a logical upgrade from my 2009 dzire.

The point remains, what is it that you need from your next car? And does a considered product satisfy that aspect? No amount of Maruti forcing into promotions that its a Premium product will answer an informed buyer. You need to decide whether you like it or dont like it! Once you are solved on that, its then a question of logic, if the price aspect justifies that product.

If you ask me personally the top end DDIS200 looks to me a good next car for you. Its up to you whether you like the S-Cross or Creta 1.6.

PS: Its always confusing when you start thinking the way others think!

[arun_josie]

Originally Posted by sandygordon

The problem I am facing now is the difficulty in convincing myself that DDIS 200 alpha /zeta is a logical upgrade from my 2009 dzire.

In my opinion, it will be an upgrade for you from Old gen Dzire to 1.3 S-Cross.

Compared to your Dzire, in Zeta variant you will get,

- Extra 15 bhp.
- Solid built quality.
- Better interiors.
- Better ride quality, Steering feedback.
- Better ground clearance.
- Spacious rear seat.
- Features like, all 4 disc brakes, Cruise control.
- Electrically Adjustable/Foldable ORVMs
- Engine Stop/Start button
- Parking Sensor/Reverse Camera
- Front arm rest
- Smartplay Infotainment System
- USB input
- Bluetooth Connectivity
- Navigation
- Split rear seat (60:40).
- You will lose out on the Boot space.

And for Alpha variant, you get leather seats, rain wiper and few other features as well.

I moved from Old gen Dzire to Linea MJD and I never regretted the decision. And considering that Maruti tunes the Fiat engine better, I don't think you will be dissapointed.

Don't hesitate to do multiple test-drives under similar conditions. If power is something a major factor for your upgrade, then why not check XUV500 if you are not liking Creta 1.6.