[procrj]

Originally Posted by TaurusAl

Does anyone know how to align the fog lamp

I dont think the fog lamp has any kind of alignment screws/nuts - checked today in another TUV which was undergoing service. my guess is that the bulb has not been fit right and in pointed upwards and hence your issue. To get to the fog lamps, you need to remove part of the wheel well cladding

[mi2n]

My Tank has just completed 4000 kilometers in 4 months of ownership and underwent the first scheduled service. Engine oil and Oil Filter were replaced as part of the normal service. Apart from that, the faulty boot door lock assembly was serviced and a couple of loose beadings were refitted. I had noticed low coolant level and had purchased a liter of Maximile coolant a month ago and since the top-up the level hasn't fallen over the 2,500 km the Tank has run in December. The total service cost was Rs.2,500. No other issues to report as on date thankfully.

The Tank is not my daily driver and hence the low running. It has been mostly used on highways. We have just made a trip to Vizag and Araku Valley in Andhra Pradesh and the Tank performed flawlessly. We found it to be a very comfortable cruiser.

The travelogue can be found here :

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/travel...ha-andhra.html

Sharing some photos of Tuffey on the trip :







On Christmas, we went for a picnic to the abandoned Piardoba Airfield nestled deep inside the forest of Joypur some 130 kilometers from Kolkata. While the morrum soil jungle trail offered an exciting drive, the long concrete runway of World War II era offered a great opportunity as a drag strip. No, I didn't try to test the prowess of 100 BHPs on the strip, not in the presence of a remapped 190 BHP new generation Scorpio :

[AutoIndian]

Originally Posted by mi2n

My Tank has just completed 4000 kilometers in 4 months of ownership and underwent the first scheduled service.

Many congratulations mi2n on completing the 4K milestone . Very nice pics there, truly drool-worthy. Will definitely go through your travelogue.

I am just back from my 4-day Konkan trip in my Orange tank. The TUV performed flawlessly throughout the trip.
Distance covered - 870 kms (majority through ghats, jungles and beach routes of Konkan).

Passengers - 6 of us (parents, wife, 2 kids and myself) with 4 days luggage.

Places covered:
Day#1 - Koynanagar (Koyna Garden), Guhagar (via Satara, Umbraj, Patan, Kumbharli ghat, Chiplun)
Day#2 - Velneshwar (temple & beach), Hedavi (Dashabhuja Ganesh & Bamanghal)
Day#3 - Tawsal Jetty, Jay Vinayak (Jaigad), Ganapati Pule, Aarey-Warey beaches, Ratnagiri, Pawas (Swami Swaroopanand Math)
Day#4 - Guhagar to Pune via Chiplun, Kumbharli ghat, Patan & Satara.

Here are some pics. Detailed travelogue will be coming soon.

Orange Tank ready to descend Kumbharli Ghat


Orange Tank with Velneshwar Beach in the backdrop


Orange Tank admiring the Hedavi Beach


TUV admiring the sunset at Warey Beach


Orange Tank waiting at Tawsal port for Jetty to arrive


TUV Climbing the ramp on the Jetty at Tawsal

[AutoIndian]

One thing I forgot to mention yesterday. After driving on the ghat roads in Konkan and Kumbharli, one thing is for sure, the TUV is tailor made for ghats or driving in jungles. While ascending the 15 km long Kumbharli ghat only once did I downshift to 2nd gear, else the TUV easily climbed on 3rd and 4th gear itself, courtesy the torque available on tap. Steep slopes are a cakewalk for the TUV. You don't need to rev the engine hard. Engine RPM maintained between 1500 and 2500 gets the job done quite comfortably.

On the Pune-Bangalore highway, many hatchbacks overtook me easily (as they were doing well beyond the triple digit speeds) I was consistently maintaining between 90-100 kmph. However when it came to Khambatki ghat, I could easily catch up with all those cars that overtook me and see them pass in my ORVM.

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by AutoIndian

However when it came to Khambatki ghat, I could easily catch up with all those cars that overtook me and see them pass in my ORVM.

It would be completely due to your driving and nothing else.

On Ghats, Hatchbacks (Petrol or Diesels) are easily fast when they climb more so due to their less bulky nature and easy to handle twists that they can vanish in no time when others are braking at every curve.

Khambhatki Ghat being one way is actually a fast climb that on a normal day, right from the Mapro Garden shop at the base till that long hander descent, it is matter of 11-12 minutes.

The mantra is to remain in the right gear during each such climb and make prefect use of the power and torque. You would be surprised to see how Altos and i10s manage Khambhatki ghats quickly.

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by paragsachania

It would be completely due to your driving and nothing else.

On Ghats, Hatchbacks (Petrol or Diesels) are easily fast when they climb more so due to their less bulky nature and easy to handle twists that they can vanish in no time when others are braking at every curve.

Khambhatki Ghat being one way is actually a fast climb that on a normal day, right from the Mapro Garden shop at the base till that long hander descent, it is matter of 11-12 minutes.

The mantra is to remain in the right gear during each such climb and make prefect use of the power and torque. You would be surprised to see how Altos and i10s manage Khambhatki ghats quickly.

+1.

SUVs, high GC vehicles are no match for nimble low slung hatches when it comes to climbing the hills. This is exactly the reason why 99% of the personal cars in hill states are small hatches. The bigger SUVs/MUVs are usually share taxis or transport vehicles.

[AutoIndian]

Originally Posted by paragsachania

It would be completely due to your driving and nothing else.

On Ghats, Hatchbacks (Petrol or Diesels) are easily fast when they climb more so due to their less bulky nature and easy to handle twists that they can vanish in no time when others are braking at every curve.

Khambhatki Ghat being one way is actually a fast climb that on a normal day, right from the Mapro Garden shop at the base till that long hander descent, it is matter of 11-12 minutes.

The mantra is to remain in the right gear during each such climb and make prefect use of the power and torque. You would be surprised to see how Altos and i10s manage Khambhatki ghats quickly.

You could be probably right Parag and it could be more about driving skills than anything else. Not just the two cars that you mentioned, but even the Honda City, Ertiga, i20 etc were struggling to keep pace (Not sure about the driving skills of these car's drivers). The long containers/ trailers at every turn were adding to their woes. While climbing the ghats one has to do predictive driving. Never step on the brakes unless it is absolutely necessary. If you want to slow down, just take off your right foot off from the A pedal and downshift. That way you will be carrying enough momentum to overtake the vehicle in front of you in case you get a chance.

Whatever the case may be, I thoroughly enjoy driving the TUV in the ghats more than on plain straight road. I attribute this to the rear wheel drive configuration and the generous amounts of low end torque. Front wheel drive cars have to pull the car mass up the slope by powering the front wheels, whereas the rear wheels have better traction as the centre of gravity shifts towards the rear end. Not only that the front wheels also have to steer the car resulting in torque steer. In a RWD car the rear wheels have to do the job of pushing the car up the slope and when the CG of the car is towards the rear, giving power to the rear wheels helps. Moreover the front wheels just do the job of steering the car and are not subjected to torque steer. I think with this arrangement the RWD cars are at more ease while climbing the ghats compared to their FWD counterparts.

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by AutoIndian

You could be probably right Parag and it could be more about driving skills than anything else.

The reason to say this is because I have mostly driven the WagonR more number of times on Khambhatki & you referred hatchbacks.

Those who could be masters inside the city to sneak in between 2 city buses and zig zag cutting lanes will fail miserably when it comes to tackling even very basic climbs like Khambhatki that today is almost like an expressway road than a ghat. A Sunday morning departure from Pune at 0700am will make one meet many such drivers on Khambhatki.

Ghats are those which have climbs that never end, frequent hairpin curves, narrow to very narrow sections and 2 way traffic. Khambhatki is so unlike a typical ghat. Easily predictable as there is no oncoming traffic and one only have to gauge the gaps and keep overtaking those monster trucks.

Where SUVs will really command is when there are very steep climbs and the roads are equally bad that hatchbacks would require careful driving and hence more downshifts to avoid scratching the underbelly.

I have seen more people trying to downshift at the apex of a curve rather than before that and to others they end up giving instant hints that its a car not worth to manage such climbs.

Treacherous ghats need more skills; Khambatki needs very little.

EDIT:
Torque steer, RWD Vs FWD for usual highway driving like the Golden Quadrilateral roads with short stints of twisties and climbs like Khambhatki would hardly matter unless I am into off-roading or in a Rally championship. With good tires, proper pressure and the kind of tarmac we have on our (good) roads today, a rare case you would worry about it actually. Under normal driving circumstances like the one you had, most 4 legged cars will manage with ease.

[procrj]

Originally Posted by AutoIndian

the TUV is tailor made for ghats or driving in jungles.

Originally Posted by paragsachania

make prefect use of the power and torque.

Parag - I think the operative word is ease of driving - this from an effort point of view. Zero turbo lag & oodles of torque means that you can stay in 3/4 gear and keep climbing while the hatches will need to work the gears and stay in the right band to make quick progress.

Last few days I have been driving through some curvy roads and it's been a cake walk. I don't have to worry about small speed breakers or broken roads, just need to steer the car and avoid cattle

[AutoIndian]

Originally Posted by AutoIndian

Here are some pics. Detailed travelogue will be coming soon.

Friends, as promised the travelogue on the recent trip to Guhagar, Ganapati Pule, Velneshwar, Hedavi, Arrey-Warrey, Pawas has gone live. You can go through it in your leisure time. Here is the link --> http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/travel...g-holiday.html

[mi2n]

Originally Posted by paragsachania

On Ghats, Hatchbacks (Petrol or Diesels) are easily fast when they climb more so due to their less bulky nature and easy to handle twists that they can vanish in no time when others are braking at every curve.

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

SUVs, high GC vehicles are no match for nimble low slung hatches when it comes to climbing the hills. This is exactly the reason why 99% of the personal cars in hill states are small hatches. The bigger SUVs/MUVs are usually share taxis or transport vehicles.

Having traveled across Sikkim numerous times in my Ford Figo TDCi, which I cannot really compare to the gentle gradients and pristine tarmac of Araku we traversed in our TUV, I would like to put forth some observations :

Firstly, given an option, I would always prefer the Ford on twisty roads. It is way more confident and fun over the TUV when the gradient is not too steep and the surface is acceptable. In case of very steep climbs/hairpin bends coupled with broken roads, the Ford does struggle even with the generous amount of torque. Also, the low ground clearance takes away your peace of mind. For a leisure trip, peace of mind is very important. This is where the TUV scores, you absolutely do not need to worry about broken roads, it simply glides over anything. Also, the power on tap is much better than my Ford. Which means i can do a dead stop at the middle of a steep hairpin and resume effortlessly in 1st or even 2nd gear, that, in a fully loaded car, is complete peace of mind. On my way back from Borra Caves, i intentionally stopped in the middle of two relatively steep hairpin bends and the TUV pulled clean both times, seemingly in disdain. The Figo would have struggled under such a scenario.The other advantage the TUV would enjoy is way better visibility all around compared to modern hatchbacks which in turn would help in judging through narrow trails. The other advantage the Figo has would be the excellent steering, it's like a point and shoot mechanism.

I plan to take the TUV to Sikkim soon, maybe my comparison would be more precise then. But, just for peace of mind and to get into trails which necessitates the TUV, I guess it's going to be the Tank that takes me up North from now on.

[AutoIndian]

Originally Posted by mi2n

In case of very steep climbs/hairpin bends coupled with broken roads, the Ford does struggle even with the generous amount of torque. Also, the low ground clearance takes away your peace of mind. For a leisure trip, peace of mind is very important. This is where the TUV scores, you absolutely do not need to worry about broken roads, it simply glides over anything. Also, the power on tap is much better than my Ford. Which means i can do a dead stop at the middle of a steep hairpin and resume effortlessly in 1st or even 2nd gear, that, in a fully loaded car, is complete peace of mind. On my way back from Borra Caves, i intentionally stopped in the middle of two relatively steep hairpin bends and the TUV pulled clean both times, seemingly in disdain. The Figo would have struggled under such a scenario.The other advantage the TUV would enjoy is way better visibility all around compared to modern hatchbacks which in turn would help in judging through narrow trails.

I could not agree more on your observations, they are just spot on . Hatches have their own advantages and compact SUVs have their USPs too, but both being available at the more or less same price points, comparisons are inevitable. It all boils down to what are your requirements and what do you expect from your car.

Having used a pre-worshipped Innova for a year, I had made up my mind that my next car has to be a RWD or AWD configuration car. I always travel with my family of 6 or even more. I love to drive at remote/ secluded places, where ghats, rough roads/ no roads are a given. Given this set of requirements I wanted a car with good low end torque, RWD configuration, ample ground clearance, robust build, high seating position etc. The Ertiga, Lodgy and even the XUV though very competent and capable cars were all front wheel drives. The Scorpio and Safari were RWD, but too big for my compact parking. These were also too bulky for my daily use. The Innova was at the end of its lifecycle. The TUV fitted my bill perfectly well. Initially I was very apprehensive about the 3 cylinder engine, undue vibrations, poor driveability, but all those vanished after the first test drive.

I still remember having a long debate with Parag about TUV's poor top end performance. I had to agree with him on that, but I could easily live with it as I rarely do long, interstate drives like him. In the last 14 months of TUV ownership, I have not even once cross the state border, but ghats, jungles, off-roads/ no roads, I have done them a plenty and after each trip I want to do more. I think I have chosen the right car for my requirements, haven't I?

[paragsachania]

Gentlemen, I totally appreciate your views and acknowledge that as it is not coming from a single test drive but speaking straight out of at least 5000+ kms of driving around on various kinds of roads. So no questions there. I would buy your inputs more than anyone else.

I was only responding to this particular section (and I have quoted the same earlier too).

Originally Posted by AutoIndian

On the Pune-Bangalore highway, many hatchbacks overtook me easily (as they were doing well beyond the triple digit speeds) I was consistently maintaining between 90-100 kmph. However when it came to Khambatki ghat, I could easily catch up with all those cars that overtook me and see them pass in my ORVM.

Cars doing triple digit speeds when they overtake you and finally you catch them up at the ghats is not because the cars are really struggling to climb the gradients. Again, this was precisely referring to Khambhatki Ghats which is like any other expressway today that one needs to worry about the Torque or power here. Its really a fast ghat & anyone who has driven here knows that and with 3 lanes today, it is almost an expressway.

And I myself have mentioned what should be the ideal runway for such body on frame, RWD vehicles here:

Originally Posted by paragsachania

Where SUVs will really command is when there are very steep climbs and the roads are equally bad that hatchbacks would require careful driving and hence more downshifts to avoid scratching the underbelly.

^ It only means these class of vehicles have certainly an edge over usual hatchbacks or Sedans any day as they don't have bother about bad roads or the Ground clearance.

Originally Posted by procrj

Parag - I think the operative word is ease of driving - this from an effort point of view. Zero turbo lag & oodles of torque means that you can stay in 3/4 gear and keep climbing while the hatches will need to work the gears and stay in the right band to make quick progress.

Thanks RJ - Totally agree. The available torque band in the TUV is comparable to the Innova or any other vehicle with similar set-up - RWD, Diesel & Body on frame. This one characteristic makes it a very good vehicle not only for city commute but also to maintain momentum in ghats.

Last few days I have been driving through some curvy roads and it's been a cake walk. I don't have to worry about small speed breakers or broken roads, just need to steer the car and avoid cattle

I think when it comes to speedbreakers or deep potholes and negotiating it, any other vehicle with good ground clearance (180mm), not too soft suspension set-up, lesser overhang (Front and rear) will easily be able to manage this without breaking a sweat. A Linea or the SX4 comes to my mind when it comes to these characteristics as I have driven them aplenty in very bad sections including the famous passes in the Himalayas from Manali to Leh and with Tahmini in the worst state in rains. So there are cars in Sedan class which will also manage most of the bad roads brilliantly. Of course I am no getting there to talk about roads that are dirt tracks where I agree that TUV or vehicles in that class will certainly have an edge.

On the other hand, I had driven the 2010 Honda City to Calicut and this is when the roads were bad and we were fully loaded that its lower GC along with softer suspension ensured the bumper lip also was scrapped while ascending hairpin curves. The story at each speedbreaker was another thing.

At least for me, I would always pick a car that would take me anywhere where I say and it should never be the case that the car I pick up decides where I should go (and where I should not).

Originally Posted by mi2n

For a leisure trip, peace of mind is very important. This is where the TUV scores, you absolutely do not need to worry about broken roads, it simply glides over anything. Also, the power on tap is much better than my Ford. Which means i can do a dead astop at the middle of a steep hairpin and resume effortlessly in 1st or even 2nd gear, that, in a fully loaded car, is complete peace of mind.

Thanks mi2n. I have driven the Storme and the Safari 2L on ghats and I can very well relate to what you are mentioning. The availability of loads of torque at lower revs is what makes such vehicles feel better on such roads.

I was only referring to the instance where hatches overtook you at triple digit speeds and then you see them struggle in ghats - Ideally, that can be a case when it comes to some treacherous ghats but with Khambhatki, I am more than sure you would love the Figo to take it on as its a fast road and not really a test bed to do such comparison. This one reminds me of typical situations where Buse(s) overtook you at the tool booth and you catch up with the same ahead as you see it crawl in ghats ahead. Certainly not the case with Khambhatki for sure when it comes to cars.

[AutoIndian]

Originally Posted by paragsachania

Cars doing triple digit speeds when they overtake you and finally you catch them up at the ghats is not because the cars are really struggling to climb the gradients. Again, this was precisely referring to Khambhatki Ghats which is like any other expressway today that one needs to worry about the Torque or power here. Its really a fast ghat & anyone who has driven here knows that and with 3 lanes today, it is almost an expressway.

It is beyond my comprehension what our dear friend Parag bhai wants to say here (may be my comprehension power is diminishing as I am aging ). I don't know from where you implied the above (text highlighted in bold). You have already mentioned this in one of your above posts

Originally Posted by paragsachania

It would be completely due to your driving and nothing else.

and I quite agree with you on that

A Linea or the SX4 comes to my mind when it comes to these characteristics as I have driven them aplenty in very bad sections including the famous passes in the Himalayas from Manali to Leh and with Tahmini in the worst state in rains. So there are cars in Sedan class which will also manage most of the bad roads brilliantly.

No doubt the above two cars that you mentioned can manage most of the bad roads brilliantly, but I still could not get your point of comparing a sedan with a compact SUV (may be my comprehension is getting really weak now , someone please help me understand)

I was only referring to the instance where hatches overtook you at triple digit speeds and then you see them struggle in ghats - Ideally, that can be a case when it comes to some treacherous ghats but with Khambhatki, I am more than sure you would love the Figo to take it on as its a fast road and not really a test bed to do such comparison. This one reminds me of typical situations where Buse(s) overtook you at the tool booth and you catch up with the same ahead as you see it crawl in ghats ahead. Certainly not the case with Khambhatki for sure when it comes to cars.

I know for sure Sir that amongst most of the TBHPians here you have a command over the Khambatki ghat as you must have crossed it more number of times than others, but again I am not getting your point (looks like I am really bad at inferring any meaning out of your above point)

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by AutoIndian

No doubt the above two cars that you mentioned can manage most of the bad roads brilliantly, but I still could not get your point of comparing a sedan with a compact SUV (may be my comprehension is getting really weak now , someone please help me understand)

The intent was never to compare Sedans with Body on Frame Compact SUVs. It was only to say that there are cars that can manage this unless its a slushy or a bad terrain that its TUV's territory.

This one is perhaps the statement to clear your doubts where I clearly say where such class of vehicles (Like the TUV) have an edge:

Originally Posted by paragsachania

Of course I am no getting there to talk about roads that are dirt tracks where I agree that TUV or vehicles in that class will certainly have an edge.

And regarding Khambhatki Ghats, I would certainly not have responded if I would have ignored this that really caught my eye:

Originally Posted by AutoIndian

On the Pune-Bangalore highway, many hatchbacks overtook me easily (as they were doing well beyond the triple digit speeds) I was consistently maintaining between 90-100 kmph. However when it came to Khambatki ghat, I could easily catch up with all those cars that overtook me and see them pass in my ORVM.

And there is nothing about my driving on these ghats that makes me say this at all - I said that because its a GQ road and is fast and one way and I complimented your driving there to be able to extract what your vehicle could deliver that most of them would not really do.

I guess we have had our thoughts well explained here and I for one have acknowledged this as they have come from you owners. I didn't intend to pick this for the heck of it but mainly because the road referred here could have been something else - More treacherous and a lot of gradients and bad roads too (and I mentioned that too).

I really don't need to say I rest my case as it was just a healthy discussion.