[vinuchel]

What's the actual state of discounts for the new Figo now? There are many news that Figo is offering massive discounts due to its slow sales. I had visited Ford dealership (Thrissur, Kerala) and was quoted the Titanium variant for 6.39lacs (including govt employees discount, 2 years additional warranty). Is the price for titanium justified? However they had promised delivery in 10 days too.

Right now am confused as I have 2 options now : Tiago XZ and Figo titanium for my budget.

Mod Note: Please avoid typing like.... this....

[keroo1099]

As usual, we Indians are treated as second class citizens. Just don't understand why they wouldn't offer a car, even as an option with these changes when it's manufactured right here.

The same goes for all manufactures who do this.

So the European Ka+ (Figo) gets a 47 per cent stiffer front anti-roll bar, new springs and dampers, Fiesta-spec hydraulic engine mounts, more sound deadening, different door seals, new rear suspension bushes, aero tweaks for less turbulence, a stiffer front sub frame, faster steering, revised suspension geometry – you get the picture, it’s a thorough job.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/ford/ka...ka-2016-review

[CA Dhruv]

Originally Posted by keroo1099

As usual, we Indians are treated as second class citizens. Just don't understand why they wouldn't offer a car, even as an option with these changes when it's manufactured right here.

The same goes for all manufactures who do this.



http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/ford/ka...ka-2016-review

Maybe they are planning an uplift and provide these things in that model.

[vinit.merchant]

Originally Posted by CA Dhruv

Maybe they are planning an uplift and provide these things in that model.

The new Figo models are just a year old. I am sure there is no facelift/uplift until late 2017/early 2018.
Car models have a 5-7 year life cycle before an all new model is brought in (exclude the SUV's which have a much larger life cycle). So to keep the car relevant in the market, facelifts are typically brought in between 3-4 years of the launch. Nothing before that.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by keroo1099

. Just don't understand why they wouldn't offer a car, even as an option with these changes when it's

A revised front sub-frame is a worrying thought. Will need to wait for NCAP tests, if done.

Also as another member pointed out in the European Ka thread, the bumpers in the European car are different and longer, even though both the versions fall under the 4m mark.

[Blow Horn Ok]

This discrimination happens all across the industry. My brother is in auto component industry and he mentions that quality control for export models are different from domestic counterparts. For an example, the engine mounts for domestic cars are painted while the same are powder coated for export models. Also, the rate of rejections are higher for export models due to strict and tight quality parameters.

Manufacturers do this to keep costs low and increase the profitability and survive in cut throat competition by keeping the initial price low.

I just hope that the figo sold in India is as safe as export models. Only a crash test could reveal the real picture.

[Motard_Blr]

Originally Posted by keroo1099

As usual, we Indians are treated as second class citizens. Just don't understand why they wouldn't offer a car, even as an option with these changes when it's manufactured right here.

The same goes for all manufactures who do this.



http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/ford/ka...ka-2016-review

The car as sold in India, would not be suitable for European markets for various reasons such as:
- Customer preferences for handling
- better roads
- higher speeds
- more highway usage
- crash protection

High ground clearance, a necessity for Indian cars, affects handling and stability and this is neither required nor acceptable in European markets.

Road noise can be prominent in Europe because of smooth roads. Indian customers are less demanding on this because of rough roads, among other reasons. Better noise isolation requires using more sound deadening and different suspension bushes.

Also a big factor: price. We Indians are extremely price/value sensitive in general and it's natural for any car manufacturer to try to cut costs on parts/characteristics that we don't value much.

The reason the EU, US and other developed markets get superior cars is because consumers demand superior performance and are prepared to pay for them. We Indians do neither. Before someone argues the opposite, keep in mind that I am generalising; us Team-BHPians are a miniscule minority. Not enough of the buying public is asking for superior safety, NVH, etc. and are paying for it.

[keroo1099]

Originally Posted by CA Dhruv

Maybe they are planning an uplift and provide these things in that model.

Well, why not offer it to us in the first place as say a Titanium ++ variant. I am certain that the Indian spec and Euro spec cars must have been planned/designed at the same time.

Originally Posted by Motard_Blr

Road noise can be prominent in Europe because of smooth roads. Indian customers are less demanding on this because of rough roads, among other reasons. Better noise isolation requires using more sound deadening and different suspension bushes.

I think you got this wrong, road noise is more prominent on rough roads not smooth roads. You will certainly get more tyre noise on a rough road which can get very irritating on long journeys.

Originally Posted by Motard_Blr

Also a big factor: price. We Indians are extremely price/value sensitive in general and it's natural for any car manufacturer to try to cut costs on parts/characteristics that we don't value much.

I agree, that's why I said give it as a top end variant. Those who value the advantages will buy it.

Originally Posted by Motard_Blr

The reason the EU, US and other developed markets get superior cars is because consumers demand superior performance and are prepared to pay for them. We Indians do neither.

I beg to differ, I may be wrong but I think the higher variants with more features sell more than their more basic versions, so a version with all the bells and whistles, comfort, safety, dynamics might sell. If you look at performance, just look at how the more powerful 1.6 Creta sells vs the 1.4 version.

Our highways are getting better, and long distance commutes/holidays are no longer a thing of the past. Speeds on our highways are getting higher, but traffic sense isn't which makes it even more imperative to have 'features' in a car which can keep you out of trouble in the first place.

I think the Indian market is getting more savvy and if you offered them an 'option' which is superior (features, safety, dynamics, performance) to a more basic model they would take it.

[Motard_Blr]

Originally Posted by keroo1099

...


I think you got this wrong, road noise is more prominent on rough roads not smooth roads. You will certainly get more tyre noise on a rough road which can get very irritating on long journeys.



I agree, that's why I said give it as a top end variant. Those who value the advantages will buy it.



I beg to differ, I may be wrong but I think the higher variants with more features sell more than their more basic versions, so a version with all the bells and whistles, comfort, safety, dynamics might sell. If you look at performance, just look at how the more powerful 1.6 Creta sells vs the 1.4 version.

Our highways are getting better, and long distance commutes/holidays are no longer a thing of the past. Speeds on our highways are getting higher, but traffic sense isn't which makes it even more imperative to have 'features' in a car which can keep you out of trouble in the first place.

I think the Indian market is getting more savvy and if you offered them an 'option' which is superior (features, safety, dynamics, performance) to a more basic model they would take it.

You are right about the road noise. I should have written that road is felt more on good roads because the rest of the car is quiet. On bad roads there is so much noise that it is difficult to differentiate between the sources of the noises.

The Creta costs 15 lakhs or so. At that price the customer is clearly not price sensitive and is seeking the latest features. But a typical customer for a 5 lakh car is definitely going to be price sensitive and if he/she isn't knowledgeable about safety features, the argument used by some sales people "you don't need XYZ safety feature for Indian conditions" would sway them towards buying a cheaper but less safe car.

[teemus]

Originally Posted by keroo1099

As usual, we Indians are treated as second class citizens. Just don't understand why they wouldn't offer a car, even as an option with these changes when it's manufactured right here.

The same goes for all manufactures who do this.



http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/ford/ka...ka-2016-review

I went to the Ford UK site and built a top spec variant (they only have petrol); so apart from the hidden things that they are getting, which you have mentioned, they also get 15" alloys, Cruise Control, ESC, Hill assist and all of this to be priced at ~Rs. 9 lakhs!

If we compare that with the Titanium+ Variant here; which we should as they have 6 airbags as standard, it's more than Rs. 2 lakhs of difference. Fair enough considering how sensitive we are with the prices here.

OTOH I wonder if there is an import duty present in UK as the car is manufactured here in Gujrat.

[keroo1099]

Originally Posted by Motard_Blr

The Creta costs 15 lakhs or so. At that price the customer is clearly not price sensitive and is seeking the latest features. But a typical customer for a 5 lakh car is definitely going to be price sensitive and if he/she isn't knowledgeable about safety features, the argument used by some sales people "you don't need XYZ safety feature for Indian conditions" would sway them towards buying a cheaper but less safe car.

A person looking at a 5.0L variant isn't going to be looking for what I proposed which would be over 8.0L going by Delhi OR prices. That's not budget by any standard.

If you look at most of the parts changed for the euro spec car (bushes, springs, dampers, insulation), they don't really involve a huge additional cost compared to those provided in the Indian Cars. So even if Ford decided to up the price by say 40-50k (5-6% increase) I still think people would buy it.

The added insulation would go a long way to get rid of the tinny impression that people have of the build quality. A well damped door will feel and sound so much better than a stock door and you will think you are getting thicker metal compared to a base car. A test drive should only reinforce the feeling.

So even if people are not swayed by all the tech advantages that the car has, they might be swayed by what they perceive is a better built car.

[Motard_Blr]

Originally Posted by keroo1099

A person looking at a 5.0L variant isn't going to be looking for what I proposed which would be over 8.0L going by Delhi OR prices. That's not budget by any standard.

If you look at most of the parts changed for the euro spec car (bushes, springs, dampers, insulation), they don't really involve a huge additional cost compared to those provided in the Indian Cars. So even if Ford decided to up the price by say 40-50k (5-6% increase) I still think people would buy it.

The added insulation would go a long way to get rid of the tinny impression that people have of the build quality. A well damped door will feel and sound so much better than a stock door and you will think you are getting thicker metal compared to a base car. A test drive should only reinforce the feeling.

So even if people are not swayed by all the tech advantages that the car has, they might be swayed by what they perceive is a better built car.

Bushes, springs and dampers affect the handling of a car. What we Indians generally look for is not what Germans or British look for. So Euro Figo suspension parts are just different, not better.

As for the tinny impression of some Indian cars, see the Baleno sales figures and the waiting period. A good number of people don't really care about it so much that it's a put off. And I'm also sure that many more people would happily buy the Baleno if the waiting period were in weeks, not months.

We Indians are a lot more rational and pragmatic than a lot of people think. A crude analogy for an Indian buying a car is like going to see a prospective groom or bride. The usual questions like "is he/she from a good family?", "are they well educated?", "do they earn well", etc. These are the product of a pragmatic, rational mind and I know that most people think on the same lines when buying a car.

[keroo1099]

Originally Posted by Motard_Blr

Bushes, springs and dampers affect the handling of a car. What we Indians generally look for is not what Germans or British look for. So Euro Figo suspension parts are just different, not better.

That is debatable, especially true for highway driving.

Originally Posted by Motard_Blr

As for the tinny impression of some Indian cars, see the Baleno sales figures and the waiting period. A good number of people don't really care about it so much that it's a put off. And I'm also sure that many more people would happily buy the Baleno if the waiting period were in weeks, not months.

They don't care because they have no other choice. Unless you have an option that is different you will never know which version you prefer. I want manufacturers to give us that option. Why should the manufacturer decide what's good for us? I'm not saying do it for free, charge us for it but let us decide.

Originally Posted by Motard_Blr

We Indians are a lot more rational and pragmatic than a lot of people think. A crude analogy for an Indian buying a car is like going to see a prospective groom or bride. The usual questions like "is he/she from a good family?", "are they well educated?", "do they earn well", etc. These are the product of a pragmatic, rational mind and I know that most people think on the same lines when buying a car.

I don't know about us being rational and pragmatic, but we certainly seem to be happy with what we are given.

Cheers.

[teemus]

Originally Posted by Motard_Blr

Bushes, springs and dampers affect the handling of a car. What we Indians generally look for is not what Germans or British look for. So Euro Figo suspension parts are just different, not better.

I agree to a certain extent.

So the European Ka+ (Figo) gets a 47 per cent stiffer front anti-roll bar, new springs and dampers, Fiesta-spec hydraulic engine mounts, more sound deadening, different door seals, new rear suspension bushes, aero tweaks for less turbulence, a stiffer front sub frame, faster steering, revised suspension geometry

Out of the above list, I understand suspension bushes and revised suspension geometry is region specific and ought to be changed.

But the things pointed out in bold like stiffer anti-roll bar (absent in petrol variant altogether!), hydraulic engine mounts, stiffer front sub-frame and others definitely point to cost cutting.

Moreover, can someone explain what exact is this "faster steering"?

On a different note, I see no mention of ISOFIX in the UK variant but I suspect it should be there.

[arunphilip]

Originally Posted by teemus

Moreover, can someone explain what exact is this "faster steering"?

I'd read another review of the UK Ka (don't have the link to hand) that spoke about steering revisions, not in terms of speed, but increased firmness at higher speeds. I suspect they refer to the same thing, since faster steering only makes sense for racetrack purposes.

Originally Posted by teemus

On a different note, I see no mention of ISOFIX in the UK variant but I suspect it should be there.

Yep, the owner's manual refers to mounting ISOFIX seats.