[hkarthik95]

Dear fellow BHPians and Team BHP.

Thanks for allowing me to become a member of the forum.

Myself and my brother are ardent automobile enthusiasts. We have been driving a Volkswagen Polo Manual Petrol for almost 8 to 9 years. We are a large family now (of 7 members) and we were planning for our second car – a large people mover in the budget of INR 22 lakhs to 27 lakhs price bracket. We started our search for the big car in the month of February 2021 from the new Tata Safari and then we looked all over the place including the Xuv 500 and Toyota Innova.

While Safari’s driving dynamics was really impressive, the boot space was almost non-existent with 75 litres on offer (which was fit only for carrying a few hand luggage). This would not suit our requirements as we intend to travel as a whole pack and the luggage space requirements are a plenty.
Innova on the hand is a rock-solid car with bullet proof reliability and we were quite impressed with the rear wheel drive pushing the car effortlessly on highways. Crysta having a decent boot space of 300 litres, still felt a little outdated on the interiors and bit overpriced (though can understand the premium being pegged on the brand reliability). We also felt the body oscillation in the new Crysta, typical of a ladder on frame chassis, and the automatic transmission having a little bit of the rubber band effect / gear shift lag while test driving the car.

After much confusions and contemplation, we finally narrowed down our choice to the Kia Carnival. Thanks to the gratification offers being provided by Kia. We had test driven the Carnival a few many times and were quite impressed with the 2.2L Diesel Engine with 200 brake horses and 440 NM of torque effortlessly pulling a car fully loaded with 7 passengers in it. The cabin insulation is really good, and the tri-zone climatic control and the plush seats made the drive really comfortable. The quality of materials used can really be felt as it comes to India in the CKD route, and we are sucker for quality makes.

However, we are now stuck in a dilemma of choosing between the base variant and middle variant i.e., Carnival Premium vis-à-vis Carnival Prestige. We intend to use the Carnival mostly for long drives, tours, and on the highways and we would rarely use the same inside the city. We have considered the parking space requirements of the Carnival and maneuverability in the city and we are satisfied of using the car both on the highways as well as in city.
Contemplation between the base variant and second variant:
After discounts, the price difference between the base variant and the middle variant is about INR 7.25 Lakhs, for which the middle variant offers the following safety, functional and cosmetic upgrades:
1. 6 Airbags (compared to 2 airbags on the base variant).
2. Electronic stability control (Not available on base variant)
3. Roll over mitigation (Not available on base variant) (Unclear if there would be an evident body roll on the base variant. None of the Kia dealers were able to provide a test drive of anything but the limousine variant and hence we were not able to feel it first hand)
4. Cornering brake control (Not available on the base variant)
5. Front parking sensors (Not available on base variant)
6. Brake assist system (Not available on base variant)
7. Hill start assist (Not available on base variant)
8. Dual sunroofs (Not available on base variant)
9. In-built Window blinds (Not available on base variant)
10. Powered tail gate (manually operated tail gate on the base variant)
11. There is no clarity as to whether the base variant has traction control. This puts us in a more dilemma as to whether there is a traction control mechanism in the base variant but the ability to turn it off is not present or whether the base variant lacks traction control in the first place. (Did anyone face any wheelspin under tight driving situations?)
12. There is an ESC on-off button in the Prestige variant. (while the ESC is on, both stability control and the traction will remain intact).
Both me and my brother are very sensible drivers and we care for the gentle usage of the car and do not allow the car to even rev beyond the comfortable range of 2000 to 2500 RPM for gear shifts. While we have managed to use the Polo for almost a decade with its rock solid vehicle stability (despite not having any of the safety features mentioned above), we are concerned as to whether it is worth upgrading to Carnival Prestige variant by shelling out another INR 7.25 Lakhs (over and beyond the 27 Lakhs price tag of the Carnival Premium) and stretching our budget to INR 34.5 Lakhs, for the host of safety features and considering the full load in the car including a kid and two senior citizens. It is also going to be a one-time purchase at this price bracket and hence we are concerned whether we would be missing out a lot by choosing the base variant of the Carnival and not extending our budget.

We are not concerned about the cosmetic upgrades such as dual sunroofs / sub blinds being offered on the Prestige variant and hence that does not become a deciding factor in any way.

Other queries / clarifications:
Apart from the confusion in choosing the appropriate variant, we also tried to speak to a lot of people including Carnival Owners, dealers, KIA customer care support and did a lot of research on the following aspects:

(a) The ground clearance: Carnival comes with a ground clearance of 180mm. Loading 7 passengers and the proportionate luggage in the boot, the 180mm would reduce further and we are really concerned about the under belly scraping the speed bumps, needless to say about the road conditions in India. Unlike the Crysta, Carnival is built on a monocoque chassis and has one of the longest wheelbases. However, Carnival comes with an independent suspension on all 4 sides (Macpherson strut on the front and multi-link on the rear) and the underbody is fully covered and sealed (excluding the engine bay and the exhaust pipe channelling all the way from the front to the rear end of the car). So, this might reduce the impact to some extent even if there are some scrapes which the car needs to undergo in bad road conditions / humongous speed bumps.

(b) Availability of spare parts: As mentioned above, the Carnival comes via the CKD route. We heard from many Carnival owners that any order for spare parts needs to be shipped from outside of India and the waiting period in this regard is really concerning (if it would extend over and beyond 2 to 3 weeks). Adding to the import of spare parts, the model which is currently sold in India is globally phased out and a new Carnival is on offer. This adds another dilemma as to whether spares for this old gen Carnival would be available after 5 years of ownership. (We intend to hold the car for a longer period of time).

We would be grateful if the fellow members of this community can guide us in choosing the appropriate variant of the Carnival and clarify the concerns regarding the ground clearance and spare part availability.
We did a double check on the existing posts and threads of discussion available on the Forum to see if any part of the above queries / dilemmas are clarified. If we have missed out any of the post in this regard, which answers the queries, please do re-direct us to the relevant post / thread and we apologize for repeating the same queries /questions here.

[for_cars1]

Originally Posted by hkarthik95

..
.....Crysta having a decent boot space of 300 litres, still felt a little outdated on the interiors and bit overpriced ..... Carnival a few many times and were quite impressed with the 2.2L Diesel Engine with 200 brake horses and 440 NM of torque effortlessly pulling a car fully loaded with 7 passengers in it.
.....
1. 6 Airbags (compared to 2 airbags on the base variant).
2. Electronic stability control (Not available on base variant)
3. Roll over mitigation (Not available on base variant) (Unclear if there would be an evident body roll on the base variant. None of the Kia dealers were able to provide a test drive of anything but the limousine variant and hence we were not able to feel it first hand)
4. Cornering brake control (Not available on the base variant)
5. Front parking sensors (Not available on base variant)
6. Brake assist system (Not available on base variant).....

Go with the variant that offers ESP. The mid variant has a lot of safety features and they are worth the additional cost.
I wouldn't care much about bling features like dual panoramic sunroof and auto opening/motorized rear hatch. The slow opening and closing motorized rear door that is offered as a cool feature in in fact a headache, its much simpler/convenient and faster to open and close the rear hatch manually.

[sunilch]

Originally Posted by hkarthik95

After discounts, the price difference between the base variant and the middle variant is about INR 7.25 Lakhs, for which the middle variant offers the following safety, functional and cosmetic upgrades:
1. 6 Airbags (compared to 2 airbags on the base variant).
2. Electronic stability control (Not available on base variant)
3. Roll over mitigation (Not available on base variant) (Unclear if there would be an evident body roll on the base variant. None of the Kia dealers were able to provide a test drive of anything but the limousine variant and hence we were not able to feel it first hand)
4. Cornering brake control (Not available on the base variant)
5. Front parking sensors (Not available on base variant)
6. Brake assist system (Not available on base variant)
7. Hill start assist (Not available on base variant)
8. Dual sunroofs (Not available on base variant)
9. In-built Window blinds (Not available on base variant)
10. Powered tail gate (manually operated tail gate on the base variant)
11. There is no clarity as to whether the base variant has traction control. 12. There is an ESC on-off button in the Prestige variant. (while the ESC is on, both stability control and the traction will remain intact).

Except for points 8-11, everything else will improve the safety of the car occupants in case of an event.

Tell me how paying 20% more is not worth the extra 8 extra safety features that you are getting? Since you will keep the car for long, this extra money won't matter much. Think of this as a better insurance policy when you look for one.

Plus you are not on a shoestring budget anyhow and hence this extra money should not matter much if you value safety. I understand that you are a careful driver but will you not pick a car with ABS (for say 5% more OTR) than a car without ABS and save some small amount, if you had to choose a small car a few years back when ABS wasn't common?

[vivekshukla]

Originally Posted by hkarthik95

Dear fellow BHPians and Team BHP.

(a) The ground clearance: Carnival comes with a ground clearance of 180mm. Loading 7 passengers and the proportionate luggage in the boot, the 180mm would reduce further and we are really concerned about the under belly scraping the speed bumps, needless to say about the road conditions in India. Unlike the Crysta, Carnival is built on a monocoque chassis and has one of the longest wheelbases. However, Carnival comes with an independent suspension on all 4 sides (Macpherson strut on the front and multi-link on the rear) and the underbody is fully covered and sealed (excluding the engine bay and the exhaust pipe channelling all the way from the front to the rear end of the car). So, this might reduce the impact to some extent even if there are some scrapes which the car needs to undergo in bad road conditions / humongous speed bumps.

(b) Availability of spare parts: As mentioned above, the Carnival comes via the CKD route. We heard from many Carnival owners that any order for spare parts needs to be shipped from outside of India and the waiting period in this regard is really concerning (if it would extend over and beyond 2 to 3 weeks). Adding to the import of spare parts, the model which is currently sold in India is globally phased out and a new Carnival is on offer. This adds another dilemma as to whether spares for this old gen Carnival would be available after 5 years of ownership. (We intend to hold the car for a longer period of time).

I am assuming all variants come with 18 inch wheels and same set of tyres, I am yet to scrape the car even with very badly designed speed humps with full load. I would say don't worry about ground clearance. Parts are easily available. I damaged one wheel accidentally and Kia sourced the wheel in 5 days here in Bangalore. There are plenty of international sources where you can source parts cheaper. I have seen parts available for even 2005 Kia Carnivals/Sedonas.

[hkarthik95]

Originally Posted by for_cars1

Go with the variant that offers ESP. The mid variant has a lot of safety features and they are worth the additional cost.
I wouldn't care much about bling features like dual panoramic sunroof and auto opening/motorized rear hatch. The slow opening and closing motorized rear door that is offered as a cool feature in in fact a headache, its much simpler/convenient and faster to open and close the rear hatch manually.

Hi, thanks a lot for your advice and suggestions. Yes I agree with your view that the safety features are aplenty in the middle variant and the bling features does not matter much.

[hkarthik95]

Originally Posted by sunilch

Except for points 8-11, everything else will improve the safety of the car occupants in case of an event.

Tell me how paying 20% more is not worth the extra 8 extra safety features that you are getting? Since you will keep the car for long, this extra money won't matter much. Think of this as a better insurance policy when you look for one.

Plus you are not on a shoestring budget anyhow and hence this extra money should not matter much if you value safety. I understand that you are a careful driver but will you not pick a car with ABS (for say 5% more OTR) than a car without ABS and save some small amount, if you had to choose a small car a few years back when ABS wasn't common?

Hi Sunil, totally concur with your view that the extra money for the middle variant is worth the price tag considering the full load in the car. I would mostly go ahead with the middle variant for the host of safety equipments and features on offer.

[hkarthik95]

Originally Posted by vivekshukla

I am assuming all variants come with 18 inch wheels and same set of tyres, I am yet to scrape the car even with very badly designed speed humps with full load. I would say don't worry about ground clearance. Parts are easily available. I damaged one wheel accidentally and Kia sourced the wheel in 5 days here in Bangalore. There are plenty of international sources where you can source parts cheaper. I have seen parts available for even 2005 Kia Carnivals/Sedonas.

Hi Vivek. Thanks a lot for your first hand experience with the ground clearance and availability of the spare parts. These two were under a lot of consideration from my side as I would use the car mostly with full load and stacked up boot. Many owners had shed light on the the suspension setup (Macpherson strut and Multi-link) coming to the aid of not further lowering the ground clearance in crucial situations and bad roads, however hearing first hand from your exhaustive usage of the car really clears a lot of air in this regard. Thanks again.

[Sahil]

Managed to get an allotment of a Carnival in Delhi for my in laws after over a month of waiting. Didn’t get choice of color and only managed this one car because the dealer is a friend. However the discount of 2L on Limo version yet active inspite of the waiting period.

Getting delivery next week, was wondering if it makes sense to swap the MRF tyres at delivery to Michelins? Will the ride quality noticeably improve ? Also what would the difference/swap amount be approx?

[vivekshukla]

Originally Posted by Sahil

Getting delivery next week, was wondering if it makes sense to swap the MRF tyres at delivery to Michelins? Will the ride quality noticeably improve ? Also what would the difference/swap amount be approx?

Stock MRF Wanderer’s are good. It’s a heavy car and even my local Michelin dealer advised against swapping. The life of the tyres is between 25-30k kms so you can change then to Contis or Yokohama Geolanders. That’s what I would do when the time comes. I have driven long distances and never felt that the tyres are inadequate.

[Sahil]

Originally Posted by vivekshukla

Stock MRF Wanderer’s are good. It’s a heavy car and even my local Michelin dealer advised against swapping.

Thanks. How is the road noise with the MRFs and what is the best tire pressure to maintain for comfort considering low load most often.

The car being heavy doesn’t have to do much with the tyre choice. You just need to ensure the Michelins have the same load index.

[vivekshukla]

Originally Posted by Sahil

Thanks. How is the road noise with the MRFs and what is the best tire pressure to maintain for comfort considering low load most often.

The car being heavy doesn’t have to do much with the tyre choice. You just need to ensure the Michelins have the same load index.

I don’t find the road noise uncomfortable and it’s hardly perceptible. I keep 35 psi on all 4s as prescribed by Kia.

I agree that same load index tyres should ideally behave the same but in my experience Michelins have softer compound which wears out faster especially on bad roads. Bangalore roads are nothing to talk about. I opted for Continentals in my F30 over Pirelli and Michelin due to the same reason.

[mmxylorider]

The Kia Carnival has been launched in the US as well replacing the earlier Sedona. And the Carnival is huge. Got a chance to see one parked yesterday and while the Sedona was a little smaller compared to the Odyssey/Sienna, the Carnival is quite alike.

and all the new models are coming in with the new logo.

[MarutiGuy1977]

Review of the Kia Carnival. Being positioned as a GUV (Grand Utility Vehicle).

https://youtu.be/8C3Znc-XFo0

[rrsteer]

Thought I will use this thread to update members on dealer level support for Carnival in non-metro cities in case of mishap or for want of non-regular parts, and also an update on the performance of the Carnival that I bought in August last year and since then, have driven for over 7300 kms.

First the twin tragedies that struck the car and the support given by the local dealer.

First tragedy: a rat bite. On my way to Delhi and only after I entered the open highway, did I notice the clumsy acceleration and lack of top end. A quick review on the spot confirmed a rat bite. The thing to note here is that the car is parked in the same parking area where I used to park the Innova (the car, Carnival replaced). Never before had an incident of a rat bite in the 9 years or so that the Innova occupied the space!

The rat bite:


The local Kia dealer concluded that the whole engine wiring would need a replacement - costing about INR 70k (which was covered under the insurance I bought). They were upfront that the wiring is not readily available and it would take about 15 days to get the part from the factory. But after waiting for over 20 days with only half answers coming from the dealer and an attitude of nonchalance, I called up Kia helpline. They asked me to try another nearby dealership. So I called up the Ludhiana Kia dealership, shared pics with them, who in-turn opined, it was just a repair job. Long story short, next day the car was back to proper running condition (it took them 30 mins and I wasn't charged), and promptly took it to Delhi to complete unfinished business.

Second tragedy. On the way back from Delhi the car was parked on the road side. It was dark but the area was well lit and I had the blinkers on. An electric rickshaw just came and scrapped along the length of the standing car. The result is below:



As per the local dealer the rear bumper, front door and the quarter panel needs replacement. Its been past 2 weeks now, and am still waiting for the parts to arrive. I am told they will receive the parts tomorrow. Overall, I find the support from the local Jalandhar Kia dealership to be poor. I miss the Toyota treatment. Let me say this in capital letters - IN MY BOOKS TOYOTA DESERVES THE PREMIUM THEY CHARGE ON THEIR CARS. THEIR SERVICE IS HEAD & SHOULDERS ABOVE OTHERS.

Performance update:
I will keep it simple and list the biggest positive and negative for me in the +7k kms that I have driven the car.

Biggest positive: The engine gearbox combo. I just love to drive this behemoth. And, this hasn't costed me the bank yet. Have a look at the FE figures below. (Yes, its mostly highway driven and I use cruise control liberally - but even so its a step up from the last car, with added comfort, convenience and speed!)



Biggest negative: Handling over bad roads. I drive the car on almost the same roads as the Innova. What's new to me is how frequently I find myself in a position where the rear of the car is loosing grip over slightly broken roads or when driven over the rumble strip. Never noticed this on the Innova.

PS: The official T-Bhp review had got me somewhat scared on the car's GC or lack of it. I think its a non-issue, have not scrapped the car anywhere so-far. (Touchwood though, given the recent tragedies that have befallen the car)

[invidious]

Originally Posted by MarutiGuy1977

Review of the Kia Carnival. Being positioned as a GUV (Grand Utility Vehicle).

That's singularly the worst and most annoying voice I've ever heard in a review video. Of any product or service. By a country mile.

I reckon it's more of an advertorial than a review. But I really couldn't bear to finish the video.