[Livnletcarsliv]

Originally Posted by Firestarter0508

Have tried to adjusting the steering wheel position? I drive a manual one, my knee never touches the console unless I try resting it. Also fail to understand the arguments around the hydraulic steering, you get a complete measure of it after few drives.

They are mostly tuned as 'urban SUV's, soft suspensions, ultra light bodies. Everyone might not like this idea of saving costing in build and spending in few extra 'features' which can easily installed from local shop if needed.

Well, hope you will agree that a mass-market car is designed to cater to people of all sizes, heights. Steering adjustment solves the console issue for short/medium drivers. The problem is especially for the tall drivers.

For your understanding - I am talking about steering calibration and not about the Hydraulic steering itself. The steering feels light at highway runs/high speeds which should NOT be the case. Steering should be light at slow speeds/city traffic and eventually should heavy up as the speed increases.

Urban SUV's? What is that ? And you are comparing Harrier to what so-called "Urban SUV's"?
Features do matter. You cannot install every feature from a local shop without voiding the warranty. I do expect some premium features when I spend 25Lakhs (even though the long feature list is not my top priority).

And I am sure Tata is well aware of this. And I am sure that all these concerns will be addressed in the next version of Harrier.

Originally Posted by Raghuwire

Wow, I am sure even Tata is not so sure about the hits and misses as you are!

FYKI, Tata is sure about these misses. And I am sure they will address it in the next version.

For your better understanding, I am not saying that the steering response is bad. All I am saying is that it could have been better especially at high speeds and highway runs.

Yes, Creta/Seltos have smaller engines, but is that plus or minus? They do sell at least 3-4 times more than Harrier. And FYI, Harrier is the heaviest in this segment of 5 seaters. So only a 2-litre engine can aptly justify its size and weight.

Misconception again - "Don't blame you though". The choice between petrol and Diesel is ONLY based on the usage and NOT based on the mileage. It is well obvious that the mileage of a petrol engine will be less than that of a diesel engine.
And for your understanding, generally, it is the petrol that is more fun to drive compared to diesel. The sales numbers would even be significantly higher if Harrier had a petrol option.
If you think "it does not make sense to bring a petrol option" - think again. Please look for appropriate threads in this forum/community (there are many available) to understand Petrol vs Diesel.

"Thousands" of Cretas with paint peeling issue? Seriously? Where is that?

And seriously? Are you saying that Hyundai/Kia is equally unreliable as a Tata?

[A_KP]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

Well, hope you will agree that a mass-market car is designed to cater to people of all sizes, heights. Steering adjustment solves the console issue for short/medium drivers. The problem is especially for the tall drivers.

I am replying in the context of height. I am 6'2 and own BS4 Harrier XZ. I had no problem whatsoever till date with left knee touching dash. Further, I do not find steering to be light at highway speeds.

Best Regards,
AK_P

[Raghuwire]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

FYKI, Tata is sure about these misses. And I am sure they will address it in the next version.

For your better understanding, I am not saying that the steering response is bad. All I am saying is that it could have been better especially at high speeds and highway runs.

Yes, Creta/Seltos have smaller engines, but is that plus or minus? They do sell at least 3-4 times more than Harrier. And FYI, Harrier is the heaviest in this segment of 5 seaters. So only a 2-litre engine can aptly justify its size and weight.

Misconception again - "Don't blame you though". The choice between petrol and Diesel is ONLY based on the usage and NOT based on the mileage. It is well obvious that the mileage of a petrol engine will be less than that of a diesel engine.
And for your understanding, generally, it is the petrol that is more fun to drive compared to diesel. The sales numbers would even be significantly higher if Harrier had a petrol option.
If you think "it does not make sense to bring a petrol option" - think again. Please look for appropriate threads in this forum/community (there are many available) to understand Petrol vs Diesel.

"Thousands" of Cretas with paint peeling issue? Seriously? Where is that?

And seriously? Are you saying that Hyundai/Kia is equally unreliable as a Tata?

Steering response - I hope you are saying this post a lot of experience/test drives or some other backing. As an owner and multiple other owners, steering feeling is good. In fact you may have complain about it at slow speeds in city but highway runs, it is one of the best.

Creta Vs Harrier - Harrier is a full segment higher than these hatches in stilts in space, power, stance and road presence. Only commonality being both seat 5. That way a Tiago and Harrier too can be compared! So you are wrong in comparing both. Even TBHP sales, Creta is C2 segment whereas Harrier is D1. So why compare sales of both?

Petrol Vs Diesel - "Thanks for not blaming me". Now that we know that the comparison is only D1 segment. Is petrol really fun to drive in this segment? Here from MG Hector Ownership review- https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-...ip-review.html (MG Hector Petrol DCT - Ownership Review) It says pedestrian performance and subpar fuel efficiency and not for enthusiasts. Another review here - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-...ip-review.html (MG Hector CVT Sharp | Initial Ownership Review). So, clearly the only competition in segment - Hector is not an FTD vehicle. I am waiting for XUV 700 to come and change my perspective- Lets see. A year back petrol was at 83 in Bangalore - Today it is 106. So, the cost is becoming prohibitively high. Lets wait and see how big petrol engines fare in the future.

Weight - Please check the weight of Hector, XUV 500 and Harrier/Safari - almost all are in the same ballpark of 1600 to 1800kgs.

Hyundai/Kia Vs Tata - Yes, I do feel Tata cars are more reliable, when it comes to the mechanics. why? Personal experience when i moved from owning two Hyundai cars to two Tata cars now (Tiago and Harrier). Secondly due to the serious issues highlighted by threads such as this - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...-response.html (Hyundai India - The occasional serious quality lapse and apathetic manufacturer response!) Show me a thread where breaks have failed, steering freewheeled on a Tata.

QC and Infotainment - Hyundai have their own issues, which people seem to just gloss over. See this Bluelink poll as an example - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...es-issues.html (Hyundai Bluelink | Owner experiences & issues). Only 30 percent feel it works (sample size is small, but I trust TBHP poll with less numbers than a poll by any of the other manufacturers)

Creta paint Issue - https://www.team-bhp.com/news/many-h...-paint-peeling and international lawsuit here - https://www.team-bhp.com/news/many-h...-paint-peeling and other links in Team BHP, please search.

[Livnletcarsliv]

Originally Posted by Raghuwire

Steering response -
Creta Vs Harrier
Petrol Vs Diesel
Weight
Hyundai/Kia Vs Tata
QC and Infotainment
[b]Creta paint Issue

Buddy, well I am getting into an argument more neither I am sure you are.

Steering Response - I may not be credible enough for you to accept and acknowledge my claim here. I hope you did read post #5 (first page) of this same thread about the steering. What do you have to say about it - still no?
Creta vs Harrier - Again I never started this comparison. In fact, this is a wrong comparison.
Hyundai/Kia vs Tata - Mechanics is just part of an automobile. And the assessment of reliability is not done only on the mechanics. When we say, Toyota is reliable, it is reliable in mechanics, electronics, build, service - everything. Tata is known for niggles and Harrier is no exception. Again, read post #1 of this same thread ("What you won't" heading).
QC & Infotainment, Creta Paint Issue - Can you show a detailed & unbiased product review in any forum that mentions Hyundai about its reliability/QC as a con/negative factor to not consider it as a choice. No brand is perfect. But how many cases do you see with issues? And you said 1000's of Creta's.

[Livnletcarsliv]

Originally Posted by A_KP

I am replying in the context of height. I am 6'2 and own BS4 Harrier XZ. I had no problem whatsoever till date with left knee touching dash. Further, I do not find steering to be light at highway speeds.

Best Regards,
AK_P

I am happy that you don't find the steering to be light at highway speeds.
But as an auto enthusiast, I do. And many others do, including our experienced, expert, and unbiased reviewers of our proud Team-BHP team.

[Livnletcarsliv]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

Buddy, well I am getting into an argument more neither I am sure you are.

*I am not getting into an argument mode, I am sure neither you are.

[07CR]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

Tata is trying all permutations and combinations, ways, and means to pull up Harrier/Safari. But unfortunately it is not working.

For a car that costs, 22-25lakhs, there are a lot of prominent/significant features that are given a miss like LED headlights, Ventilated seats, All-round disc brakes, Wireless charging, etc.

Also adding to let down are the ergonomic issues (driver knee touching centre console, inappropriately placed centre armrest), poor fit and finish especially for a car of this cost, poorly calibrated hydraulic steering (both at slow and high speeds), no petrol option, no optional AWD option, and finally of course the niggle overloaded ownership experience.

And given the launch of the XUV700, the future of Harrier/Safari looks bleak unless Tata restructures and refocusses itself over the product and service. Fingers crossed.
Let us hope they really turn it over.

Couldn't agree more. Hexa was one product which was way more sorted on all below parameters. It's unfathomable how Tata messed up on Harrier and Safari compared to the Hexa.

1) On features- It's shocking to see how under equipped the Harrier is, at a price tag of 25L+! The competition offers so much more, and that too at a lesser price tag and I am sure XUV700 will just blow even the said competition away. If you compare Hexa here, the car had rear sunblinds, pneumatic struts for bonnet, ORVM demisters, classy ambient lighting and much more spacious cabin. All this while undercutting the competition.

2) Ergonomics- Hexa was almost perfect here. The leg fouling issue you mentioned is though limited to certain heights IMO. I am 5'10 and I found it ok for my driving style. My dad is 6+, and he found it very uncomfortable with his laidback driving style.

3) Niggles/reliability concerns- Hexa too had it's share. However, it was way way lesser, than what Harrier/Safari are reporting. Almost every week we are seeing atleast one niggle reported in the Harrier/Safari threads. What's more appalling is the SVCs simply don't know how to fix these issues once for all.

Competition has been way better in this regard and you rarely hear any reliablity concerns/niggles being reported on the Hyundai twins, Hector(I had received an infraction on this, hope it's not added again, just stating out facts). Even the XUV has been fairly reliable and if any niggles, the SVCs atleast know how to fix them.

I want Tata to succeed as it makes me feel proud when any Indian manufacturer outdoes the competition (be it Mahindra or even Bajaj), but looks like they are too complacent to take the necessary efforts.

Rant over.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

I am happy that you don't find the steering to be light at highway speeds.
But as an auto enthusiast, I do. And many others do, including our experienced, expert, and unbiased reviewers of our proud Team-BHP team.

The word you are looking for is - Unpredictable.

There is no point arguing with people who have not experienced the problems with that steering, in time they will know.

[sid3091]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

The word you are looking for is - Unpredictable.

There is no point arguing with people who have not experienced the problems with that steering, in time they will know.

This is really disappointing to hear. Was seriously considering a Harrier and was willing to live with the lack of features and shoddy infotainment, but not this.

[Livnletcarsliv]

Originally Posted by 07CR

Couldn't agree more. Hexa was one product which was way more sorted on all below parameters. It's unfathomable how Tata messed up on Harrier and Safari compared to the Hexa.

Hexa was one sorted product from Tata.
Actually, I would attribute the success of the sorted Hexa to its first-gen Aria.
Lesson learned from Aria.
In fact, I am really disappointed that Tata discontinued Hexa.
The cycle continues - launching a product, sorting it out, and then discontinuing.

I can remember the niggle overloaded XUV500 when I drove one of the first cars in Chennai in 2011 when it was launched. M&M sorted it out in the nextgen and continuing its sales even now (until at least the XU700 sales commence) till a more appropriate successor takes over.

As you rightly said, Harrier/Safari is definitely neither a successor to the body on frame, 4*4 sorted Hexa nor a successor to the ladder frame, 4*4 Safari Storme.

Sometimes, I feel that Tata still thinks like a public sector company (neither government nor private). At least appreciate the transition from Govt. company to Public Sector. And good that it is still in the transition process from the public sector to the private sector. Hope the change happens soon and we will reap the benefits during our lifetime.

Originally Posted by sid3091

This is really disappointing to hear. Was seriously considering a Harrier and was willing to live with the lack of features and shoddy infotainment, but not this.

You can still consider Harrier for its pros.
In fact, this steering factor is not even an issue. It's just something that could have been slightly better.
This should definitely not stop you from considering/buying a Harrier as this is not a deal-breaker.

[sid3091]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

You can still consider Harrier for its pros.
In fact, this steering factor is not even an issue. It's just something that could have been slightly better.
This should definitely not stop you from considering/buying a Harrier as this is not a deal-breaker.

Well I'll probably buying a car late this year/early next year so hopefully there will be a revised model (to compete with the XUV700) to consider.

[Firestarter0508]

Just wondering … If we are even allowed to say that we are happy with this car or haven’t faced any issue with dealer or service center till now?

What experts had to say is already available on the public domain (Evo India actually did a long term review). Everyone should do their research before deciding buying one. I watched tons of videos and spoken to many owners before deciding to book one. I am pretty sure others do so well before investing 20-25 Lacs into something.

Few quick points as Harrier owner to help those who have this car in their plan:
It’s a wonderful especially on highways; high speed stability is amazing
Gives a very good feel about build quality. I watched plenty of videos on the same before making zeroing on Harrier
Comfort – quite good, but it’s not that you won’t feel the humps in the city. Chances that you will be highly impressed with how it deals with bad roads and sudden potholes
Braking – okay, last bite is good
Clutch – Nothing troublesome … softer than Swift, but has longer travel as well
Terrain modes – atleast the ‘wet’ mode works pretty well
Music system – Awesome
Feature – As I mentioned earlier it’s TPMS that is an essential feature missing. And, ventilated seat is not an essential for me – I don’t need a ventilated bed to sleep comfortably, likewise …
Infotainment – Nothing very impressive about it. Please upgrade to latest version, it doesn’t have lags
Looks - I am still jealous of anyone owning dark edition
Tata Dealers – I actually didn’t face serious problems with the dealer. I enquired with all the dealers in the city and opted for the one which was prompt in responding to queries and offering the best deal. I actually had a minor issue with Tata sales team
SC – So far so good. Each time picked up car from home and dropped back after servicing. I have been hearing about some of the ‘not so good experiences at SC’ from fellow Harrier owners – so please choose your SC judiciously. Eventually, like any other car, it will be about making personal connect with someone in the workshop, so that you get your queries resolved quickly

And, I don’t think there is any sense in bringing 4WD in Tata Harrier now, especially with the price point. Tata should test with Safari first as it has a genesis in a 4*4 car and see if they get enough response.

[ssm2021]

Originally Posted by ssm2021

Got the car today after 9 days. The ECU has been replaced. The Tata Motors engineers have recommended to change the DEF tank as well apparently. The service centre have ordered the DEF tank which will take another week. They would take the car back for a day to change the tank once it arrives. I expect to get the documentation of all work carried out once this is done. Will keep this group posted, in case it helps anyone.

All this is in the warranty obviously. I drove it short distance, and it seems fine for now. Not clear why they want to change the DEF tank too though. Hope to get that clarity in the days to come. But I am assured that I can drive the car meanwhile and it would be no issue.

Update: The DEF tank has now been replaced. I am told since the original error was related to SCR system, they suspect the problem could be with the sensor in the DEF tank. Although they replaced the entire ECU, this also had a potential for failure in future. Hence to be safe, they replaced the DEF tank as well.

The total service cost was close to ~ Rs.66,300/- almost all of which was covered by warranty.

Hope to end this thread here. I am told this type of an issue was a first of its kind. So, I suspect this thread may not be useful for many, but still, just in case.

[girishss]

Took my Harrier on its first long trip last weekend to Sakleshpur. It was about 600kms round trip. 4 adults + 1 infant and fully loaded boot.

Below were the observations:

1. Lots of space for all occupants and really comfortable seats
2. Kept the car in Sport mode most of the time, abundant power and torque on tap, overtakes were a breeze
3. Engine noise is quite perceptible at high revs, but easily drowned out with the great music system
4. Suspension is not soft, body roll was well contained
5. Steering feedback was good, and enjoyed driving on the ghat roads
6. The last couple of kms to the homestay was unpaved, rocky and slushy at some places, the car managed this without a sweat
7. The final approach to our homestay was a very steep incline, the car could easily scale it with full load of passengers and luggage
8. Android Auto crashed once throughout the trip and no other issues encountered with the infotainment
9. The car performance flawless overall

Here's a pic of the car in the beautiful rain soaked western ghats:

[steadfast]

Can someone share where is the vent system of headlight [second bullet point] and how do we prevent pressure wash over it to prevent condensation ?