[Trojan]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Trojan, as an owner of a Force Gurkha, what is your take on the current after sales service and support, being offered by the company? From your own experience and what you hear from other Force owners, is the company taking any steps to seriously ramp up its service and support?

It is not about knowledge but mostly about ownership which is lacking at a few Service Centers/Dealers.
My experience with dealers has been mixed, while in Goa it was so good and heartening to see the Owners (Father and Son) waiting back after hours to see my vehicle get serviced and checked properly, apart from the fact that the service was coordinated, planned and monitored by the Force team. Did I ask for this, no I didn't in fact I was quite surprised to see the company's involvement at every step and this has been a stand-out experience for me in all my years of automobile ownership, never have I had an OEM reach out and stay connected, and I have owned quite a few vehicles over the years from all major OEMs Mahindra included. Pune unfortunately I did not have a great experience and this the company is aware of and all my Service related queries/support and issues are routed through them.

Again ASS was a point which we raised during our meeting and FM accepts that there needs to be some work done and they are working on it especially in terms of managing the Service aspect where the company would be involved and not come into picture only in case something went amiss (all OEMs follow this approach) !

This line of thinking is different, and it shows the effort that the company is putting to change that image.

Originally Posted by JithinR

But why are people complaining about the interiors not being plush enough? This is a vehicle you are supposed to use off the beaten path. It's meant to be rugged and mechanically reliable.

Absolutely valid, and the reason and result of its rugged dashboard is that in over 17months and 26K kms of our travels, there is not a single squeak or rattle coming from any of its internal components and I have the BS4 Explorer.

Originally Posted by Ragul

Exactly! There appears to be a secretive Thar marketing team intent of trashing the Gurkha here.

You bet! The powerdrift review was atrocious and lacked interest to such an extent that multiple points were simply omitted and not to mention the statement that it cannot be driven over 70-80 on highways wherein reality, none of the reviewers even got a chance to drive it on the highways. Even in the official review, after talking about all the multiple good points about the vehicle, the closing statement of 'I would not recommend this vehicle' is based upon items like hard dashboard and steering weight at low speeds (highly subjective).

I mean I understand personal bias et all but then one also should be objective and not let that cloud judgement when reviewing a product for the masses.

To be fair, Thar is a good product but for 2 passengers or 4 with no luggage and then one has to compromise or invest on modifications (just look at all the accessories that Bimbra designed and launched for the Thar just to make it compatible enough)

This alone is a major differentiator right, but no.

Originally Posted by Manuuj

Yesterday while going through Team Bhp I chanced upon a scathing review of mine from 2014 on the Gurkha.
5. From the reviews and specially by a current Gurkha owner Trojan, one gathers that it drives really well too and is vastly improved in NVH from his Gurkha with the same 2.6 liter engine.

And you own an Endeavour! We ourselves had rejected the Gurkha in the past and even when we did buy one, it wasn't even on the list, but having owned it for over a year and we have realized how good it really is.
And this current generation is nothing like its older version and it shows the amount of effort and change the company has adopted.

Originally Posted by Bibendum90949

In the earlier post by Aditya, it's indicated that after all the free services(4 of them), the service interval is 10k kms or 4 months. The first service is at 5 months(150 days) and subsequent ones are spaced at 120 days(4 months). Since there's no specific mention of oil change every 10k kms, it's safe to assume the oil change should be done every 4 months during the scheduled service itself.

When there is no specific mention of anything apart from a picture, one should wait for the owners manual or some info instead of assuming. As you see it was clearly an incorrect assumption.

From someone who overlands a lot, I can say that it is good to have your vehicle checked before and after a long drive, especially if you like exploring off the beaten track and includes really long drives.

Question:
For the sake of understanding better, do Thar owners not visit any service center between the 10000kms/year service schedule? And if they do have to visit, how does Mahindra address their queries, is this considered free or under goodwill or is there a charge associated with the visit?
And if there are people out there who are using their Thars for overlanding, their response would be really helpful.

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

This is what the website says, an owner`s manual would be helpful.

Attachment 2213849

Super!

Originally Posted by howler

You can say that again , you should see the powerdrift review of the thar by someone on this forum and closely associated with the previous gen thar. It’s a joke , he doesn’t even touch upon the key differentiator- the manual locking diffs or the off road capabilities . I have never been a fan of the gurkha but this one deserves credit, they have put in a lot of work .

He did not touch upon a lot of items, it seemed like a 'Force'd review

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

I can just suggest that the Force Gurkha is NOT the right vehicle for you to carry very young kids ?-at least not the primary car. It is not family vehicle in the traditional sense, but it is meant for taking 4 adults/young adults on off-road trips. Young kids, not properly strapped in, will be tossed about and it will be a handful to worry about them as well as control the vehicle in tight situations.

But why would you say that? Have you had a bad experience traveling in the Gurkha along with kids or in any other 4x4 vehicle? What is the traditional sense of a family car? Would a hatchback, crossover, sedan or SUV fit that segment?

I believe there is no such thing as the perfect family car, each one will come with its own set of advantages/disadvantages and one has to pick the best fit in terms of their own requirements.

Why would kids be tossed about inside a 4x4 car, and I mean the Gurkha vs any other car or Thar? Aren't lap belts helpful? One has to be practical with what one does with any car, remember the Fortuner on the beach which toppled.

If one has really young children, who are not capable of being seated by themselves or need support, there are car seats for that, and there are ISOFIX mounts available in the rear seats of most cars, Gurkha included. Before we purchased our Gurkha, our ride was the Tata Aria 4x4 Pride with 6/7 airbags, and it came with 3 point seat belts for all passengers, but still as my kids were younger then, they both had their own car seats.

Originally Posted by Manuuj

Had seen this video a while ago and was hugely impressed! For most vehicles it would be a real task to go up that slippery uneven slope on their own but to actually tow a 2 tonne vehicle up that slope at high altitude shows how capable a vehicle the Gurkha is.

I had the pleasure of meeting the man behind the wheel of that Gurkha!

[Bibendum90949]

Originally Posted by Trojan

When there is no specific mention of anything apart from a picture, one should wait for the owners manual or some info instead of assuming. As you see it was clearly an incorrect assumption.

Please help to clear the air of confusion with the correct information for the benefit of readers. It was not any random picture that Aditya posted which I referred. It was from Force's website itself. Even the one which Kosfactor posted also was from the website in which it's mentioned 20000 kms is the engine oil change interval. When they say scheduled services are spaced at 4 months or 120 days, what's that they would carry out on the vehicle during such services. It also means customer has to drive in for oil change at 8 months/20000 kms too as per the website screen snap. 20000 kms change interval is unheard of though.

Originally Posted by Trojan

From someone who overlands a lot, I can say that it is good to have your vehicle checked before and after a long drive, especially if you like exploring off the beaten track and includes really long drives.

Of course that's common sense. Not just overlanding, anyone who takes their cars for very long highway hauls are supposed to have all basic checks thoroughly if they don't wish to be caught unawares during the journey. Such adhoc checks are the prerogative of the owner since manufacturer wouldn't know when would a customer go for off roading and stuffs. It can't be mixed with the service schedule. In this case, Force is not clearly thinking customer goes off roading every four months and hence let's keep our service interval every four months to do basic checks on the car.

Originally Posted by Trojan

For the sake of understanding better, do Thar owners not visit any service center between the 10000kms/year service schedule? And if they do have to visit, how does Mahindra address their queries, is this considered free or under goodwill or is there a charge associated with the visit?

With any manufacturer, most minor running repairs when the vehicle is under warranty are addressed free of cost under goodwill. But any other work which doesn't fall under the scope of warranty is certainly billed. It all depends on the manufacturer/dealer. I'm not sure about Thar. I'm just sharing my experience with other manufacturers.

[Anwesh]

Originally Posted by Trojan

It is not about
I had the pleasure of meeting the man behind the wheel of that Gurkha!

I wish they had shot part of the video in the Gurkha. Would have loved to watch that guy's driving.

Regards,

[akshay4587]

Originally Posted by Trojan

I had the pleasure of meeting the man behind the wheel of that Gurkha!

Originally Posted by Anwesh

I wish they had shot part of the video in the Gurkha. Would have loved to watch that guy's driving.

Regards,

He is from Manali, and I have had the pleasure of driving along him in extreme conditions
A Gem of a person, with excellent driving and survival skills, he and his Gurkha are invincible.

We did Spiti Valley in winters twice first in feb 2018, and then January 2020
Taking liberty of sharing some photos from the two trips.

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by flywheels

A forum is meant to hold divergent views, agreed. However, for those who seek a no nonsense off-roader, please check this link on Youtube of a Gurkha towing a Isuzu can be seen along the Shinkula pass.

Originally Posted by Manuuj

Had seen this video a while ago and was hugely impressed! For most vehicles it would be a real task to go up that slippery uneven slope on their own but to actually tow a 2 tonne vehicle up that slope at high altitude shows how capable a vehicle the Gurkha is.

And not to forget this was at ~3500m ASL. So it must have been working with less than peak power. Full credit to the man and machine. Like he says towards the end, you need to know your machine and its limits on such terrains.

The VCross would have probably made it with a more experienced driver. I am sure he learnt a great deal from this experience and must be thankful of the experienced company he had.

[Trojan]

Originally Posted by Bibendum90949

Please help to clear the air of confusion with the correct information for the benefit of readers.

Even the one which Kosfactor posted also was from the website in which it's mentioned 20000 kms is the engine oil change interval.

20000 kms change interval is unheard of though.

Please have a look at the service book image from my Gurkha, oil change is indeed at 20000kms.
What will they do the other time? I don't know maybe carry out check, replenish, and maybe (replace) activity for the vehicle as per the maintenance book.

It helps you to keep your vehicle in top shape and identify issues if any at the right time - a proactive vs reactive approach.

Originally Posted by Anwesh

I wish they had shot part of the video in the Gurkha. Would have loved to watch that guy's driving.

I will ask him if he has any videos and if so to post it on YouTube.

Originally Posted by akshay4587

He is from Manali, and I have had the pleasure of driving along him in extreme conditions
A Gem of a person, with excellent driving and survival skills, he and his Gurkha are invincible.

Lucky you, we are still planning, hopefully the winter of 2022 works!

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

And not to forget this was at ~3500m ASL. So it must have been working with less than peak power. Full credit to the man and machine. Like he says towards the end, you need to know your machine and its limits on such terrains.

Driving alone itself is a challenge and towing on hair-pin bends wherein you had to take 3 point turns not only for yourself but the extra long vehicle you're towing is pure art!

Service Queries

To talk a little bit more on the After Sales Service front in terms of the new way of working which the company has adapted, here goes.

FM is watching this thread and they shared with me the following to put on this thread as a way to showcase that they are committed to what they are offering.

Here are the contact numbers of the Service Heads for each region as specified and the escalation contact if needed. I have spoken to at least 3 people from this list at different times and not only are they available but also eager to help.

Any Gurkha owners can contact them, for planning their servicing and for highlighting any issues or support needed, and they stay in touch until you're satisfied with the resolution or support.



Finally, I would like to post the link to my YouTube video of our highway drive, being the only one who got to drive it on the highway and this was the scene - choc-a-bloc traffic all the way. Some key points from that

- You can see the lights in action and they are good.
- The video was made live without any cuts/retakes or editing so that you can make out that the cabin is very quiet and none of the melee is filtering inside
- Vehicles do give way and even trucks and buses can't bulldoze you
- The visibility is excellent, and it makes all cars look small, you can see over the tops of most of them
- Ease of driving is great, like in my Gurkha, the 3rd gear is a very useful tool for the city

How I wish I would have got a chance to really stretch her legs a bit, and in spite of driving 70kms, there was no opportunity whatsoever!

https://youtu.be/Ie5rLrQ9d1Q

Cheers,

[Kosfactor]

^ Thanks Trojan.

Check Torque of Cylinder head bolt, manifold, Check Valve clearance and reset if required.

So they are expecting these people to open up the valve cover during every service and use a feeler gauge on those tappets , good luck with that one.

They need to rewrite the maintenance schedule to 12 months \ 20,000 Kms instead of this and I do not think anyone is going to check the headbolt and tear down the valve cover every few months, that is just madness.

[4x4addict]

In some of the new gurkha spy pictures, I noticed it had the same automatic free wheeling hubs as the previous gen Thar CRDe. Any idea if it is there in the launched vehicle or atleast as an accessory?

[Meph1st0]

Originally Posted by akshay4587

He is from Manali, and I have had the pleasure of driving along him in extreme conditions
A Gem of a person, with excellent driving and survival skills, he and his Gurkha are invincible.

Force has featured him in their latest video on Twitter. Seems like there will be a Real Adventure - Real Experience' series and he will be part of episode 1.

[Manuuj]

Originally Posted by Trojan

[ATTACH=WhatsApp Image 20211005 at

Service Queries

To talk a little bit more on the After Sales Service front in terms of the new way of working which the company has adapted, here goes.

FM is watching this thread and they shared with me the following to put on this thread as a way to showcase that they are committed to what they are offering.

Here are the contact numbers of the Service Heads for each region as specified and the escalation contact if needed. I have spoken to at least 3 people from this list at different times and not only are they available but also eager to help.

Any Gurkha owners can contact them, for planning their servicing and for highlighting any issues or support...

Finally, I would like to post the link to my YouTube video of our highway drive...
- You can see the lights in action and they are good.
Cheers,

This gives me so much confidence as a future Gurkha owner. The fact that an automotive company is watching this thread closely shows their level of seriousness towards getting things right this time around.
(Pssst.. please drop the extra x4 from 4x4x4)

Also they must be commended for sticking with the Gurkha despite relatively low sales numbers all these years. I hope they get rewarded for their genuine effort.

I cannot wait to see the Gurkha in the flesh in Delhi sometime this weekend or early next week. It is expected to be at the showroom by the 10th.

In all the pics I've seen the Gurkha it seems smaller than the outgoing Gurkha and going by the written specifications we know that is not the case.


I am hoping to be hit by that same "street presence" of the Gurkha Extreme when i see the 2021 Gurkha in the flesh.

Maybe it has to do with the lack of 3 inch body lift that the Gurkha Extreme had (from factory).
I have been told that unfortunately the 3 inch body lift from factory will not be possible in the 2021 Gurkha due to the built in crumple zones and crash safety regulations.

Thank you for the YouTube video. I regularly scour the net for all Gurkha videos and quickly lap up all new material.

Have even watched many Gurkha videos in Tamil, Malyalam and Kannada which are languages that i cannot understand at all.

Please post more videos whenever possible.

I remember when i started an ownership review of my Fortuner (Obelix) in December 2009 it was the first Ownership Review of the Fortuner on Team Bhp. It was to my recollection quite a popular thread at the time followed by an equally popular Leh and Spiti Travelogue.


When my Endeavour landed up upon Obelix's departure i thought of starting another ownership review but somehow lacked the enthusiasm to do so. Don't get me wrong.
The Endeavour is a fantastic vehicle and i really like it but somehow i did not drive me to begin a detailed ownership review.
Maybe there were many ownership reviews already and it was a bit late to start an ownership review in 2019 of a vehicle launched in 2016.

Whatever the reason i never had that urge to start and maintain an ownership review of my Endeavour.

The Gurkha surely will warrant a detailed Ownership review and also lots of Youtube videos by me (there just are not those many Gurkha videos on YouTube as it deserves)

[swunkjyn]

From a Highway driving perspective, I think from all the information that has been shared her, the 2.6L Merc Engine is friendly enough to cruise at speeds of 80 to 90 because these are the speeds that I prefer to drive in.

The steering seems to be Hydraulic and not EPS, good point though. Was checking the price and this is break-up in Shimla -

Force Gurkha On Road Price in Shimla

2.6 Diesel(Diesel) (Base Model)
Ex-Showroom Price - Rs.13,59,000
RTO - Rs.81,540
Insurance - Rs.79,059
Others - Rs.13,590
On-Road Price in Shimla : Rs.15,33,189*

Given that this is a True & Blue Off-Roader with an actual metal hard top plus 4 Seater with enough room to carry luggage, it is a damn good price.

[Manuuj]

Originally Posted by swunkjyn

From a Highway driving perspective, I think from all the information that has been shared her, the 2.6L Merc Engine is friendly enough to cruise at speeds of 80 to 90 because these are the speeds that I prefer to drive in.
On-Road Price in Shimla : Rs.15,33,189*

Given that this is a True & Blue Off-Roader with an actual metal hard top plus 4 Seater with enough room to carry luggage, it is a damn good price.

I agree with you completely. I have vehicles that can easily cruise at 120 kmph all day long but since cruising over 90 kmph on most highways attracts a hefty penalty its rarely ever done.

Anything over 50 on most roads in Delhi and you can promptly expect a message from Vaahan with the vehicles pic and a challan attached.
As a result I'm constantly fighting the Endeavour to keep it below 50 kmph. They really should make the speed limit a minimum of 60 kmph in Delhi honestly!!

But you get my point. If i am to potter about town in the Gurkha at 50-60 kmph and the low end torque and gearing is designed for me to be able to do that comfortably then for sure its going to be very drivable.

Top speed is irrelevant nowdays. My brother has a Bentley GT and i doubt its ever been over 200 kmph safely in India.

Is the Gurkha drivable on the highways and expressways? If it stays at about 90-100 kmph at about 2000-2200 RPM then yes for sure it must be.

In 2003 I had a Toyota Qualis. That vehicle was by far the most driveable vehicle I've ever owned and i drove it over 2 lakh kilometers.

It had a 2.5 liter engine producing 75 bhp and 147 NM torque. And yet it was extremely easy to drive in the city specially in stop start conditions and cruise at 90 kmph on the highway.

It ran out of steam around 120 kmph but for the highways of that era (2003-2009) 100 kmph was good enough.

The Gurkha has 91 bhp and 250 NM. If NVH has been well contained then i am very confident that it will be immensely driveable.

The one key difference ofcourse was that the Qualis weighed 1470 kgs and the Gurkha is close to 2200 kgs.

A nice long test drive will take care of any doubts. As I write this I expect that the vehicle may have reached the showroom in Delhi today and is probably being prepared for the Test Drives that will commence from tomorrow 10th of October.

The last few times I was this excited about a vehicle was in 1985-86 when we went to take delivery of our first Maruti 800 (first model), then again in 2009 for the Fortuner and finally the Bentley GT in 2011. So it has been 10 years since I've been this excited about owning a particular vehicle.

The truth is I've always been excited about the Gurkha ever since its launch. But the spartan interiors, fit and finish etcetra, etcetra, etcetra always made me look the other way.

This time around Force Motors seems to have really turned things around and I have no excuse to not get mine now. Fingers crossed!

[4x4addict]

Guys, if anyone in touch with the company can you clarify these two points for me:

1) Is Free Wheeling Hubs/Front Axle Disconnect part of the original equipment? If not will it be available as an accessory?

2) The brochure says cornering lights but shows the picture of the regular fog lamps. Is there a sensor that automatically turns on the lights when cornering like in the XUV500 ?

[swunkjyn]

Originally Posted by Manuuj

I agree with you completely. I have vehicles that can easily cruise at 120 kmph all day long but since cruising over 90 kmph on most highways attracts a hefty penalty its rarely ever done.

Anything over 50 on most roads in Delhi and you can promptly expect a message from Vaahan with the vehicles pic and a challan attached.
As a result I'm constantly fighting the Endeavour to keep it below 50 kmph. They really should make the speed limit a minimum of 60 kmph in Delhi honestly!!

But you get my point. If i am to potter about town in the Gurkha at 50-60 kmph and the low end torque and gearing is designed for me to be able to do that comfortably then for sure its going to be very drivable.

This time around Force Motors seems to have really turned things around and I have no excuse to not get mine now. Fingers crossed!

It is the same here too. In chandigarh, they have kept the speed limit between 50 to 60, though I drive an Alto K10 but given the empty roads, I do find it hard to control the speed.

The point made about Qualis is very valid but then lesser weight also played its part. Gurkha should have a linear acceleration and not feel out of breath till 110 or 120 atleast though I do not expect many people would be pushing it to that limit most of the time.

I have driven a Creta 1.6 1st Gen, which belongs to a friend and while going to Shimla from Chandigarh, I could use 3rd Gear as an Automatic. It would pull from as low as 20 kmph and 2nd Gear can be used as first too. I am hoping it would be possible to do the same in Gurkha too, as everyone is talking that its low end has good grunt.

Only thing I am more worried of is the after sales support, will it be as good as Mahindra. I know that in this thread,Contact numbers of the people from the Support Team have been shared whom we can reach out to. I really want to do a Test-drive and see how it goes.

Off-Topic - Got a call from Mahindra and Thar Petrol is available within 2 months and so is XUV700, Diesel for both is 6 months to 9 months. This is also a factor why I am leaning more towards Gurkha.

The factors that tick the boxes for me are -

1. Metal hard top and with no after market solutions like FRP etc.
2. Reliable Mercedes Engine
3. True 4x4 with Front/Rear locking Differentials
4. 4 Seater with lot of space to carry luggage

[Ragul]

Originally Posted by Bibendum90949

Please help to clear the air of confusion with the correct information for the benefit of readers. It was not any random picture that Aditya posted which I referred. It was from Force's website itself. Even the one which Kosfactor posted also was from the website in which it's mentioned 20000 kms is the engine oil change interval. When they say scheduled services are spaced at 4 months or 120 days, what's that they would carry out on the vehicle during such services. It also means customer has to drive in for oil change at 8 months/20000 kms too as per the website screen snap. 20000 kms change interval is unheard of though.

Sorry what? If you are a new car owner one can understand the confusion. 20k kms is the recommended engine oil change interval even for the old Maruti Cars. For gearbox and diff oils it is usually 40k kms but one could easily stretch it to 60k without serious consequences, after the initial few years where one has been supervising oil changes in the garage and knows the quality of oil one is putting in (and whether the car did water fording). However since rains and water-logging become more frequent and impossible to escape, it is recommended to stick to a 40k or at least once per year post November monsoon schedule. The only exception being a recommendation to change all oils (including diff and gear oils) after the first 20k kms to get rid of metal shavings from new parts in the system. Hence I think the 20k for all oils is good for the first servicing schedule only.

However 4 months or 20k is too tight in these lockdown times and someone should ask Force to clarify or review that schedule. Because not complying with the 4 months schedule will risk warranty status of the car hence it is a serious issue.