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Old 17th June 2022, 04:37   #241
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

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Originally Posted by attinder View Post
An EV vehicle may be contributing just as much co2 as a regular car.
We've digressed from what this thread is all about.
Unless there is data that can prove than EV's are indeed as polluting as a gas combustion vehicle, we are speculating.

There are countries that produce over 70% of their energy requirements out of renewables. Under such scenarios, your EV CO2 contribution is further reduced and no gas vehicle can match that.

Anyway, that is my last on the subject. We can go on and on about this. Time to jump back to City Hybrid and what it can do for you, if you are considering one. Will be good to get some statistics around fuel economy, percentage of the gas engine versus the EV side of the vehicle operating.
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Old 18th June 2022, 10:52   #242
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

Went to Crystal Honda, Pune (Bavdhan) with my brother to get the OEM cover for my 4th gen City. Accessories manager requested us sit as the cover was procured from an adjacent warehouse. 2 glasses of refreshing kokum sharbat (juice) were served - much appreciated in the scorching Pune heat.

Got bored, eyes fell on the new Honda City Hybrid. Immediately asked one of the guys if I could get a test drive. He took my driving license, filled out some forms, and within the next 5 minutes, all three of us were seated in the car. Here's my impression from a brief 15 minutes TD:

Positives:
  • Extremely addictive pull - this is not the CVT I've known, or is this the eCVT and new engine combo?? Anyway, I have never driven a DSG/DCT, but this eCVT will easily fulfill my adventurous desires.
  • Steering is extremely light with decent feedback (lighter than 4th gen). It does get heavy once you speed-up. Car also feels more planted and stable, suspension is stiffer than the previous gens.
  • ADAS features are a great addition and they work well. This needs to be factored in while doing any cost comparisons vs petrol City.
  • NVH levels are top-notch. Set the gear lever to D mode, release the brakes and the car starts eerily creeping forward without any noise. With minor acceleration I was at 80+ in no time - only noticed due to the ding at 80kmph. This is a massive improvement from my 4th gen City.
  • Decent sound quality. Nothing to complain or rave about.
  • Cabin space and comfort - segment-leading! Not sure what kind of sorcery Honda does to extract this amount of space and comfort in the City - hats-off to them for achieving this. Rear seats are as comfortable as sitting on a sofa.

Negative:
  • Tyres are still skinny - but they are not much of a concern as compared to previous gens.
  • Touch-screen is a sore point. It might fulfill the purpose however there are two key negatives - 1) Poor resolution. Makes the already poor camera look even more dreadful. I was struggling a bit to use the lane-watch and parking cameras due to reflections in broad sunlight. 2) Takes away from the overall aesthetics of the interior that is built to near-perfection.
  • Last but not the least - Boot space. For someone used to 500L+ boot capacity - the Hybrid's meager ~ 300L will be a bit of a heartache. This is not only a perfect city car, but an equally competent highway cruiser. This could be a deal-breaker for someone used to packing boot to the brim for long trips, picnics, etc.

Overall, an amazing proposition. Sales rep indicated a 6-8 month-long waiting period for the eHEV and 15-30 days for the petrol Honda City. Booking amount is 10k (I think, can't remember exactly). Only White, Grey and Golden-Brown color options available for the eHEV "at-the-moment".

On a side note - really amazing to see movement in the sedan segment due to Honda, VW, and Skoda. Kudos to them! Here are some completely random pictures from the TD and showroom, because why not:
Attached Thumbnails
Honda City Hybrid Review-20220606_154938.jpg  

Honda City Hybrid Review-psx_20220606_200713.jpg  

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Old 18th June 2022, 20:03   #243
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

So I took the plunge and bought a City Hybrid. We had booked the Golden Brown Color car when it was launched with Arya Honda, without seeing or TDing the car, cos I was not in the country at that time. To be honest my Dad and me, were just interested and excited about the Tech, and this ended up as an impulse booking.

Arya Honda after a month of launch of the car, called and told me that a car had been allotted to me, however I HAD to buy the accessories package, and will not able to do the insurance by myself. This pushed the purchase cost to almost 24lakhs, which I politely declined.
Anyway I put the word out to the other dealers that if any car became available, they should contact me, and I could pick it up immediately. Sure enough, I got notified by Hallmark Honda of a grey specimen becoming available, and I happened to be in Mumbai. So I drove up, checked the colour and bought it. Ended up costing me almost 1lakh less than Arya Honda's quote.

The car should delivered in 3-4days and I intend to put up an ownership experience report.
Funnily excited about a Honda Hybrid! Upgrading the tyres to 205/50 R16s from the stock 185/55. Was quite a pain to get a set! Only Yokohoma seems to be making this size now. Couldn't find stock for Michelin.

I feel the shortage and wait list is artificially created by Honda. Dealers are getting hardly any cars allotted, which helps them create buzz and improve margins (the Rolex model?) The Silver and Red cars haven't even gone into production, and there are no production timelines available for them.
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Old 19th June 2022, 22:28   #244
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

Picked up a grey eHEV in Bangalore and the experience has been surreal.

Driven it just about 80km, but here are my initial impressions.

The drive is buttery smooth - and yet it is unassumingly quick!
You will not realise you've hit 35-40 kmph because you practically hear nothing till you hit those speeds. Also, I haven't measured it yet, but I bet it does 40 in less than 4 seconds even with a normal pedal input (not kick down)

ADAS (both adaptive cruise control and collision warning/braking work well)
Much less intrusive than MG astor.

I did not buy the car because of the better fuel economy, but it is brilliant.
On the dash, I have got about 18.5 kmpl in miserable Bangalore traffic and about 23 kmpl in bad Bangalore traffic.
About 60% of this is in Eco mode and I use the B mode and regen braking a fair bit with the toggles (I haven't got tired of playing with it yet, and don't think I would)

All this is based on what's on the dash, but knock 10% off and it is still spectacular.

I see a lot of these calculations about break-even - but it is honestly a silly comparison. Having driven both the 4th and 5th Gen Petrol, this is a step up in both performances (feel) and refinement.

Plus I assume there are few like me who find ADAS useful and an important safety factor even in Indian road conditions. Collision mitigation kicked in really well when a moron scooter rider was on her phone and forgot to notice the speed breaker ahead, and panic braked about 3 meters ahead of it when she did see it.

I was anticipating it since she was on the phone but the tech definitely started braking a fraction before I did. I can imagine this would definitely save a scratch or two and hopefully a lot more when deployed widely.

It can be annoying if you are an aggressive driver who likes to follow the car ahead with less than a car length at speeds greater than 30-40kmph. But if you are a normal driver, warnings are an occasional nudge and brakes not until they're really needed.
For those that have driven with ABS on an icy/slippery road, it brakes a touch like that. (Or at least that's the feel on the brake pad). I have always braked when it thought it had to.

Adaptive cruise control also works brilliantly, but it has not got a creep mode like say the XUV 700 L variants. The cruise control stops at speeds below 30kmpl but it does slow down and brake all the way down (I have not tested it to a complete stop, but I assume it would, it braked till 9kmph), and then I braked. It won't go again because cruise control is stopped again, but I found a decently useful feature in the Outer ring road with moderate traffic.
Set speeds to 55kmph and it went up and down for about 3.5 kms with no pedal input
I am driving to Chennai this weekend, and it should come in handy there much more, and will post an update.

Why have I spoken about the performance, refinement and ADAS only? Because we know what the City is otherwise like. If it is fuel economy, Diesel's are a lot better, and modern diesel are pretty quiet and refined. The environment argument is moot for a variety of reasons, so City Diesel is definitely what high mileage fuel economy-oriented City purchasers should get, not an EHEV. The economics simply don't work.

But if you can afford it, and want a bit more fun and tech, this won't disappoint you. The only average part of the car so far is clearly the infotainment system, but that's never a reason to buy / not buy a car.

Oh and I almost forgot. Exclusivity! Hybrids are rare, people will eventually realise that this is a different Blue Honda Logo. I don't drive a lot, but I am yet to see a single Honda EHEV in Bangalore. Again, not a reason to choose a car, but it's definitely also a reason why the eHEV is cool.

Last edited by Turbanator : 20th June 2022 at 00:24. Reason: Spells, please proofread before posting.
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Old 20th June 2022, 12:17   #245
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

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Originally Posted by ragwhos View Post
Plus I assume there are few like me who find ADAS useful and an important safety factor even in Indian road conditions. Collision mitigation kicked in really well when a moron scooter rider was on her phone and forgot to notice the speed breaker ahead, and panic braked about 3 meters ahead of it when she did see it.
I was anticipating it since she was on the phone but the tech definitely started braking a fraction before I did.
The e-Hev manual from Honda website quotes the following:

Name:  Motor_cycle.png
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So, I was under the assumption that the system is not designed to detect the shape of two-wheelers, but in your case it has done a perfect job in detecting the scooter. So, I am not sure whether it worked by chance or as intended. And, I believe that they meant two-wheelers in the context of term "motorcycle".

Quote:
Originally Posted by ragwhos View Post
I am driving to Chennai this weekend, and it should come in handy there much more, and will post an update.
Considering that the boot capacity is a limitation of this vehicle, just curious to see whether for city rides, can we increase the boot capacity by removing the spare wheel. This would expose the battery pack(as per the image in official review page 1), so I am not sure how safe it is to do so. So, if possible, can you check how hot the battery area is at the end of your ride and update?

And thanks for sharing your experience.
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Old 20th June 2022, 14:11   #246
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

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Originally Posted by mohandasnikhil View Post
This pushed the purchase cost to almost 24lakhs, which I politely declined.
Congratulations on your purchase. Looking forward to your ownership review.

Can you please share the breakup of the insurance and other costs that you were able to save. Your breakup of cost saving will help me deal once the car is allocated to me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mohandasnikhil View Post
I feel the shortage and wait list is artificially created by Honda. Dealers are getting hardly any cars allotted, which helps them create buzz and improve margins (the Rolex model?) The Silver and Red cars haven't even gone into production, and there are no production timelines available for them.
I have pre-booked a Red car, but haven't heard anything from the dealer yet (Arya Honda, Prabhadevi).
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Old 20th June 2022, 15:27   #247
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by skarthiksr View Post
The e-Hev manual from Honda website quotes the following:

Attachment 2322846

So, I was under the assumption that the system is not designed to detect the shape of two-wheelers, but in your case it has done a perfect job in detecting the scooter. So, I am not sure whether it worked by chance or as intended. And, I believe that they meant two-wheelers in the context of term "motorcycle".

Considering that the boot capacity is a limitation of this vehicle, just curious to see whether for city rides, can we increase the boot capacity by removing the spare wheel. This would expose the battery pack(as per the image in official review page 1), so I am not sure how safe it is to do so. So, if possible, can you check how hot the battery area is at the end of your ride and update?

And thanks for sharing your experience.
1) It detects scooters / motorcycles and pedestrians with ease.
There's definitely a CMW beep everytime a very aggressive two-wheeler cuts in too close from another lane, let alone in front. (It is not overly intrusive)
It also does this well when pedestrians are about to jump in to cross the road, even if it is around the periphery.

I would assume that Honda's message is more to tell us we are not meant to rely on it and assume it would be autonomous. Perhaps also to ensure there is no liability on their tech whatsoever.

2) There is decent amount of space under the boot map even without removing the spare wheel, say to place a large laptop bag.
Will post some pictures with the spare wheel off and also check the heat around the battery pack after a long drive.
After about a 12km drive, the spare wheel is not even warm. It is cold to the touch
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Old 20th June 2022, 16:58   #248
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

Question to anyone who has the answer, and please pardon me if this has been asked earlier - will the City e:HEV be exempt from the Delhi-NCR 15 year rule for petrol vehicles? That is, will it be driven beyond 15 years with the Road Tax getting renewed, without any hassles or coming in the cross hairs of this crazy rule/regulation? Thanks in advance.
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Old 20th June 2022, 23:21   #249
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

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Originally Posted by Lion hearted View Post
will the City e:HEV be exempt from the Delhi-NCR 15 year rule for petrol vehicles?
No. It is not a pure EV. It is a strong hybrid therefore similar rules will apply unless the NGT decides to change their rules to include strong hybrids but it looks unlikely as of now.
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Old 21st June 2022, 11:06   #250
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by ragwhos View Post
...
I see a lot of these calculations about break-even - but it is honestly a silly comparison. Having driven both the 4th and 5th Gen Petrol, this is a step up in both performances (feel) and refinement.
...
I'm a numbers guy. If it doesn't make sense on a spreadsheet, then it doesn't make sense at all. I assigned a monetary value even for the design of the Beat when I was comparing it against Ritz and Figo in 2014. Ritz lost a few points in the style department.

The cost-to-breakeven calculations at least help with setting a baseline for the amount that's definitely justified. Let's say, the City hybrid's fuel efficiency justifies Rs. 2.0 lakh worth of cost in fuel savings alone. Once you have the objective stuff out, from there, you can set a price for subjective things like 'feel', 'refinement,' and ADAS features. The perceived value for these things will vary from one customer to another.

So, one may find the City hybrid extreme value assuming an average of 1 crash saved per year with ADAS, then the combined costs of the following items may justify the price gap in just 2-3 years:
- the repair costs
- cab costs during downtime
- hassle of dealing with service center
- time value
- NCB in insurance
- depreciation in vehicle value

However, for someone with 10 lakh km of driving experience and only a few scratches on the resume, ADAS may have zero perceived value and is a feature Honda are upselling. Because hybrid is not available without ADAS.
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Old 21st June 2022, 12:49   #251
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

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Originally Posted by Mumbaiker View Post
Congratulations on your purchase. Looking forward to your ownership review.

Can you please share the breakup of the insurance and other costs that you were able to save. Your breakup of cost saving will help me deal once the car is allocated to me.
Thanks!

ARYA Honda quoted me 73k for the Zero Dep Insurance, I got the same cover for 50k. They also insisted I buy Accessories Package worth 33k (chrome garnishes and floor mats) and some PERMAGUARD (Car Care Kit) worth 31k. The total extra cost was almost 90k+ which put the OTR at 23.98l

With Hallmark I bought the EW for 5 yrs, and some accessories worth 14k, did the insurance myself and ended up paying 23.05l OTR.

P.S: The Red Color is going to take a while to deliver, and demand may fall by then, so maybe ARYA Honda will be a bit more flexible.
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Old 21st June 2022, 14:29   #252
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

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Originally Posted by skarthiksr View Post
So, I was under the assumption that the system is not designed to detect the shape of two-wheelers, but in your case it has done a perfect job in detecting the scooter.
I suspect the warning is there incase the 2 wheeler is not in correct lane but still obstructing your car and to save themselves from legal trouble just incase. But in my overall experience it seems almost everything in your path.

I frequently encounter bicycles on my route and my car doesn't have any issues with detecting them and also slows down/brake incase there's a need. The car will be also very quick to alert you incase your lane has some parked cars ahead. (I have a Mazda 3 which has a similar ADAS suite)
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Old 21st June 2022, 16:14   #253
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

Congrats on your purchase and you might see one white Hybrid in Banglore which is mine .

In my case, ADAS was working brilliantly except once. Despite being no vehicle in my lane, my e: HEV reduced its speed from 60 to 40 instantly while taking a turn. It appears like the camera was focused on a car in another lane at slow speed and abruptly applied breaks as it turned. The sudden drop in speed wasn't so serious but startled me nonetheless and thankfully no vehicles were close to mine from behind.
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Old 21st June 2022, 20:28   #254
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

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Originally Posted by Greenville View Post
Despite being no vehicle in my lane, my e: HEV reduced its speed from 60 to 40 instantly while taking a turn. It appears like the camera was focused on a car in another lane at slow speed and abruptly applied breaks as it turned. The sudden drop in speed wasn't so serious but startled me nonetheless and thankfully no vehicles were close to mine from behind.
Well, this CMBS activation scenario could be related to the scenario called out by Honda in their manual - page 253.

Name:  CMBS_Turn.png
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Old 21st June 2022, 20:36   #255
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My first tank-to-tank test was done on the e:HEV and the whole ride was in Bangalore traffic (which was bad or worse all the time, including last Friday's heavy rains). During the entire trip, the vehicle was in econ mode" while drive and break modes were used intermittently.

It took almost 10 days to cover those 428 km and trip meter reading always hovered around 19-20 kmpl. Tank to tank with top-up was done at the same fuel station, and the mileage figure of 18.22 kmpl was a pleasant surprise

Honda City Hybrid Review-img_20220621_192916.jpg

Honda City Hybrid Review-img_20220621_195008__01.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by skarthiksr View Post
Well, this CMBS activation scenario could be related to the scenario called out by Honda in their manual - page 253.
Thanks a lot. This could be the only reason.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 21st June 2022 at 22:07. Reason: Merged consecutive posts.
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