[Sach_511]

Originally Posted by MaheshY1

However, for someone with 10 lakh km of driving experience and only a few scratches on the resume, ADAS may have zero perceived value and is a feature Honda are upselling. Because hybrid is not available without ADAS.

Though I agree with most of your points, however, this statement is akin to I will not pay for airbags because they are never used in last 10 years or I will not take term insurance since I have never died in the last 10 years (please don't take it personally, but ADAS is a great tool)

[DeKay]

Interesting observation from a friend who test drove the City Petrol and Hybrid here in Bombay yesterday:

For context - He drives a Nexon EV and was looking for a new car for his father.

"The hybrid and the petrol feel almost exactly the same. I could hear the engine purr in the hybrid one just as much as the Petrol car despite not driving with a heavy foot. In terms of the interior feel there's no difference at all either. I was expecting the hybrid to feel more like my Nexon EV or even better for that matter since I was expecting that extra level of finesse and dampening, but was left disappointed.

To add to that, the sales guy was clearly trying to push us towards the petrol City and went so far as to say that the hybrid will return just about 14km/l in Bombay. When I mentioned that I drive a Nexon EV and I was expecting the hybrid to be somewhat similar, he laughed and said there was no comparison between the two and that the Nexon is clearly a more solidly built vehicle. I loved the petrol Honda City, however. Might just go ahead and book it"

[amalji]

Originally Posted by DeKay

"The hybrid and the petrol feel almost exactly the same. I could hear the engine purr in the hybrid one just as much as the Petrol car despite not driving with a heavy foot.

Except for the engine revving sound ( which Honda consciously tried to match a petrol engine to keep the petrol heads happy ) , there's nothing that is same about both the cars. The torque curve for a petrol and electric motor are 2 different things and anyone would feel the difference in the pull on a Honda hybrid vs Honda petrol.

[ragwhos]

Originally Posted by amalji

Except for the engine revving sound ( which Honda consciously tried to match a petrol engine to keep the petrol heads happy ) , there's nothing that is same about both the cars. The torque curve for a petrol and electric motor are 2 different things and anyone would feel the difference in the pull on a Honda hybrid vs Honda petrol.

Yes, torque curve is completely different, but Honda have tuned this down too to match the petrol.

You don't feel the instant torque like you do in other electrics even if you really step on it.

The eCVT is as they call it very much like a CVT box. It does take a moment to even to register feeling a touch like a CVT rubberband. (though definitely not as pronounced), and then when after it starts revving, power delivery is extremely linear without any sudden acceleration you get with the electric motor.
It is quite fast, not a VBOX test but recorded the speedo on phone and it does 30 in just over 2seconds, 45 in just over 3 and 60kmph in just over 5 seconds.
All of this without you being pushed back in the seat

[ragwhos]

Originally Posted by MaheshY1

I'm a numbers guy. If it doesn't make sense on a spreadsheet, then it doesn't make sense at all. I assigned a monetary value even for the design of the Beat when I was comparing it against Ritz and Figo in 2014. Ritz lost a few points in the style department.

Fully appreciate the sentiment about putting numbers on a spreadsheet, but with all due respect, we can all agree that the value for "design / aesthetics" Beat scored vs Ritz & Figo is definitely just one's perception, and so just a made up number that can skew results any way one would like it to. (and so doesn't find place in an objective comparison)

In the same vein, City eHEV is fundamentally a different car (at least for those who perceive it as such) and for those customers fuel economy is just a nice add on.

And considering most owners don't keep their cars for 10 years, if the City EHEV does have a similar depreciation curve to the City Petrol, the fuel savings make a 5 year cost of ownership just about 3lakhs more, or just about 5k a month more

(Sorry, I am not being lazy or obtuse I really don't have the time to explain the calculations right now, but will try to make a more detailed post later)

I would gladly pay 5k a month extra for the performance, ADAS and the blue logo :P

Would the EHEV depreciate the same way as Petrol City does? Only time will tell.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by ragwhos

Yes, torque curve is completely different, but Honda have tuned this down too to match the petrol.

Electric motor has a torque of 253 Nm whereas the petrol has 143 Nm. That's huge difference. Combined with the fact that torque for the electric motor is available right from the get go, you can quickly accelerate from crawling speeds.

Originally Posted by ragwhos

The eCVT is as they call it very much like a CVT box. It does take a moment to even to register feeling a touch like a CVT rubberband. (though definitely not as pronounced), and then when after it starts revving, power delivery is extremely linear without any sudden acceleration you get with the electric motor.

I don't think the city hybrid has a gearbox. It's a single speed ratio electric motor and another single speed ratio for the engine at high speeds which is essentially an overdrive. There's no CVT on the hybrid. Feel free to correct me if I'm missing something here. It's the Toyota hybrids which use the eCVT.

[Mumbaiker]

Just got a call from the SA. He says Red/Silver cars are not available. He was saying he hasn't got a single red car allotted for the past 2 months.

They have no idea what the issue is with the Red car production, as the Petrol red cars are readily available.
Weird !

[sumeethaldankar]

On road price in Mumbai for the ZX CVT is ~18 lacs. The Hybrid is ~23 lacs.
If one were to go for the ZX CVT trim they will save around 5 lacs.

A simple calculation shows we will get ~4500 litres of fuel at the rate of 112 per litre in Mumbai for 5 lac rs. With a give average of 14 kmpl one can run for 62,500 kms before any benefit of the hybrid comes in.

I maybe wrong in the calculation above unless someone covers that much distance in the shortest time he or she will find the petrol only version to be more beneficial. The reason to go for hybrid is the advanced tech and feel good factor about getting more kmpl from the car. I would not get once unless Honda gives a good warranty of atleast 7 years.

[attinder]

Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar

A simple calculation shows we will get ~4500 litres of fuel at the rate of 112 per litre in Mumbai for 5 lac rs. With a give average of 14 kmpl one can run for 62,500 kms before any benefit of the hybrid comes in.

I maybe wrong in the calculation above...

I think you forgot to factor that hybrid will also need petrol.
For driving dynamics a pure EV will make more sense, with a portable generator in the boot.

[bajoseph04]

Originally Posted by aniket13

[*]Touch-screen is a sore point. It might fulfill the purpose however there are two key negatives - 1) Poor resolution. Makes the already poor camera look even more dreadful. I was struggling a bit to use the lane-watch and parking cameras due to reflections in broad sunlight.

The day when Honda Cars India ditches the ditchpad (digipad) is going to be a golden day in Honda India's history

[baarish84]

Just my back of the envelope calculation on break even :

Assuming fuel efficiency in bumper to bumper traffic for City Hybrid & City Petrol is 20 KMPL and 12 KMPL respectively. I have assumed servicing cost , annual insurance cost as same .

Petrol @ 110 Rs - break even happens at 136000 KM
Petrol @ 120 Rs - break even happens at 125000 KM
Petrol @ 130 Rs - break even happens at 115000 KM
Petrol @ 140 Rs - break even happens at 107000 KM
Petrol @ 150 Rs - break even happens at 100000 KM


If we attribute premium to ADAS features added in Hybrid version, break even KM will come down .

[Mumbaiker]

Originally Posted by Greenville

It took almost 10 days to cover those 428 km and trip meter reading always hovered around 19-20 kmpl. Tank to tank with top-up was done at the same fuel station, and the mileage figure of 18.22 kmpl was a pleasant surprise
[/ATTACH]

Not sure how I missed this post. But a mileage of 18.22kmpl within Bengaluru traffic is commendable. How much would you expect it to go down without the eco mode?

[Greenville]

Originally Posted by Mumbaiker

Not sure how I missed this post. But a mileage of 18.22kmpl within Bengaluru traffic is commendable. How much would you expect it to go down without the eco mode?

I didn't try without the eco mode simply because of lack of opportunity to drive outside city. My best guess is another 1-2 km down without eco.
I can definitely share my experience as I got some plans for a Bangalore to Chennai trip next week and one way would be completely on non eco mode .

[ajayc123]

Originally Posted by ragwhos

Yes, torque curve is completely different, but Honda have tuned this down too to match the petrol.

You don't feel the instant torque like you do in other electrics even if you really step on it.

The eCVT is as they call it very much like a CVT box. It does take a moment to even to register feeling a touch like a CVT rubberband. (though definitely not as pronounced), and then when after it starts revving, power delivery is extremely linear without any sudden acceleration you get with the electric motor.
It is quite fast, not a VBOX test but recorded the speedo on phone and it does 30 in just over 2seconds, 45 in just over 3 and 60kmph in just over 5 seconds.
All of this without you being pushed back in the seat

How does the experience compare to the famous DCT German machines? Anybody?

[ragwhos]

Originally Posted by amalji

Electric motor has a torque of 253 Nm whereas the petrol has 143 Nm. That's huge difference. Combined with the fact that torque for the electric motor is available right from the get go, you can quickly accelerate from crawling speeds.



I don't think the city hybrid has a gearbox. It's a single speed ratio electric motor and another single speed ratio for the engine at high speeds which is essentially an overdrive. There's no CVT on the hybrid. Feel free to correct me if I'm missing something here. It's the Toyota hybrids which use the eCVT.

A) Please read my message, I said the eCVT as it is called, feels like a CVT, clearly implying that it is not a CVT. There is no gearbox.

B) Honda does call it an eCVT, but it is marketing speak. Not a CVT, just electronic wizardry that makes the petrol engine rev like it is connected to a CVT gearbox though there isn't one.