[amalji]

Originally Posted by abhatt

Anything above 25L is just heart over head is what GTO has also said in the past. You get very good automobiles under 25L.

I hate the fact that I have to pay 2X the price for these luxury vehicles compared to my friends in the US. I f a Q3 costs 35-40L in US, how can I justify buying the same thing for 70L here? It's literally a heart-driven decision which is ok but difficult to accept for a few. The snob value is difficult to give up though.

Hence I really hope that the awesome cars like Octavia, Superb don't leave our market.

This is thanks to our taxation. If we add up SGST, CGST, Cess & Road tax it might come close to what a manufacturer gets when we buy a car. And this kind of taxation disincentivizes high quality manufacturers like Toyota, VW, Honda more. 1 lakh spent on higher quality/safety translates into 2 lakhs extra cost for the customer with types of fancy taxes added up. They are left with the below options.

• Increasing the price ( and we will call them over prized ),
• Cutting on features ( we interpret it as dumping their garbage on us, Indians )
• Sell it at loses and run an unsustainable business or compromise on quality/safety and be like what the number 1 and number 2 are doing.

[Acharya]

Originally Posted by androdev

E

I have no plans or means to replace them with their equivalent new models so I too pondered on this subject of finding cars which give me 80% of the luxury car experience at 20% of the cost (sans the snob value, of course).

This statements tells a deeper malaise that plague the Indian car market in recent times. Many car enthusiasts and lovers are holding back their purchases, as market forces favor car manufacturers.
Prior to Covid, getting 7-12Lakh discount (or even higher) was nothing out of ordinary while shopping luxury cars. Now, on one hand prices have gone steep, discounts have almost evaporated from the scene.

On the other hand, cars below 30L have improved by leaps and bounds. Who could have imagined ~200bhp petrol engine by an Indian manufacturer a decade ago, ADAS similar to Swedish cars and features that could bring ignominy to yesteryears E Class.

Last but not least, City roads continue to get worse with more and more people getting crammed in limited public space.

All these factors are swaying people away from Luxury cars, restricting a potential 100k market to well within 50k per annum.

On a sidenote, I'm keeping myself content with 1.8 TSI L&K, which continues to bring smiles in it's sixth year.

[Strider24]

Hello bhpians,

At the moment I am in the middle of choosing between City Hybrid V & City ZXCVT. I started with a budget of 18-19 lakhs & almost finalized the Petrol ZX model, during a casual TD of hybrid model ,the insane power delivery on tap made me rethink on my budget. Now I am doing a comparative analysis of both models and can use some feedback/help.

Here is comparison of both models on the relevant parameters:

Advantage of ZX CVT over e-Hev V variant:

• Top of the line variant of Petrol powertrain. No Compromise on available features.
• Few cabin elements like leather seats, soft touch material on dash, focus led cabin lights & Auto IRVM give it a plush feel to be in.
• 6 airbags (A BIG pro for me)
• Lane watch camera.
• More boot space than hybrid.
• Better LED headlight setup( Love it)
• Tried & tested engine/gearbox combo, It's driving characteristics is well known.

Advantage of City e-HEV 'V' over Petrol ZX CVT

• Superb power output from electric motor. acceleration is addictive. this is what has mesmerized me and my wife.
• It has the latest drive train tech available in market.
• Much better FE figures.
• Better rear suspension
• Sufficiently loaded with 4 airbags, Led fog lamps, spoilers and diffuser.
• Same alloys & MID as in ZX.
• Electric parking brake & wireless charger.

In my case the annual mileage is likely to stay within 7000 km with 65/35 distribution between city & highway trips. Mathematically there is not significant savings that I would realize, likely recovery period is around 6.5 years calculated with assumed Avg. Petrol price of Rs.125/l. I am attaching a sheet I created for this calculation.

Honda dealers are offering a flat discount of Rs. 1 lakh on V Hybrid in August which has brought down the prices difference between both variants only at around 2.8 lakhs now.

Cause of dilemma-

• While I absolutely love is the power delivery and driving experience with hybrid engine in city, I am not able to come to terms with lack of 6 airbags and lane watch assist camera in Hybrid 'V' variant. In my opinion both are a must have features in a car costing Rs.21.7 lakh OTR Pune. This points alone are forcing me to go for petrol ZX variant.
  
• I am also not sure if I would like the headlight throw of projector setup in V variant. being hybrid I won't be able to upgrade them as its an electrical part and will void the warranty.
  
• Not much is known about the maintenance of Hybrid combination in India since it barely a year old launch.

I am not considering Elevate as its a newer model and chances of unknown niggles in it are high. Also I am a sedan person.

Need feedback if I should go for V-Hybrid with a car lover's greed & ignore the airbag/camera/headlight related concerns. or simply go for ZX CVT. I can't stretch the budget to ZX e-Hev at all.

p.s. Request to mods if you can add a poll for this post, I couldn't figure out how to do it.

[JLS]

Originally Posted by Strider24

Here is comparison of both models on the relevant parameters:

I am not sure whether you care about this difference.
Hybrid City comes with disc brakes at rear [both V and ZX variants] while petrol City [including top end ZX variant] comes with with drum brakes at rear.

[Dead_Pedal]

@Strider24

For me the lack of 6 airbags in the V e-hev is the only concerning matter while the lane watch camera and auto dimming IRVM are things which you can live without. They wouldn't really matter once you start enjoying the hybrid hardware and it's gains. Also, that electric park brake with brake hold is an absolute lifesaver in the urban roads. I can't imagine my life without it. My vote goes to the future proof(for several years at least) hybrid model and I'd pick that one easily if I were in your position.

[Kevinrevvz]

Originally Posted by Strider24

Hello bhpians,

At the moment I am in the middle of choosing between City Hybrid V & City ZXCVT. I started with a budget of 18-19 lakhs & almost finalized the Petrol ZX model, during a casual TD of hybrid model ,the insane power delivery on tap made me rethink on my budget. Now I am doing a comparative analysis of both models and can use some feedback/help.

I recommend you to blindly go for the hybrid. My e:HEV has been absolutely blissful. The performance is addictive and the NVH, usability, FE.. is leaps and bounds ahead of the standard City. Even if you don’t care about the mileage, just the driving experience is worth it.

Mod Note: Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting a full, long post inconveniences our mobile readers.

[manim]

Originally Posted by Strider24

Here is comparison of both models on the relevant parameters:

Two more differences:
1) Significantly reduced Boot space in hybrid because of battery-pack (edit: this is in your post already).
2) Battery-pack replacement costing lakhs after eight years.

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by Strider24

Need feedback if I should go for V-Hybrid with a car lover's greed & ignore the airbag/camera/headlight related concerns. or simply go for ZX CVT. I can't stretch the budget to ZX e-Hev at all.

p.s. Request to mods if you can add a poll for this post, I couldn't figure out how to do it.

The Hybrid powertrain, suspension and brakes alone make it worth the choice. I am not even talking of the better interior upholstery, NVH and overall better fuel economy. I have the earlier e-HEV when there was only a single variant and it’s one car that keeps inviting me for a drive . The CVT is no match. The engine just makes a lot of ruckus when pushed hard with no corresponding increase in speed while the e-HEV just takes off like a plane.

[Kars'n'Ketamine]

My post would be a fly in the ointment. Although I totally agree with you about the City; I beg to differ on the comparison made with lexus/ other brands.

Despite serving the same purpose, I love to drive my wife's mini countryman than my discovery sport. Both are lovely. Both serve the same purpose. But it's just the subtle driving dynamics and the way two cars handle.

Although the mini keeps throwing one fault or another and I swear working on it, I wouldn't sell it until the wheels fall apart. Having said this, I miss my first Car, santro Xing! Absolutely no trouble even once during its lifetime of 2 lakh Kms. It's the reliability Vs fun. Some put fun on top of reliability in the list of must have's!

[vijaykr]

Originally Posted by Strider24

Need feedback if I should go for V-Hybrid with a car lover's greed & ignore the airbag/camera/headlight related concerns. or simply go for ZX CVT. I can't stretch the budget to ZX e-Hev at all.

Personally I'd say go for the Hybrid. I had the earlier Petrol City for many years and bought the e-Hev last Nov. As other owners have said, the driving experience itself makes it worth it. I don't know if the picture quality of the lane watch assist camera has been updated in the recent facelift, but I find the one in the earlier e-Hev pretty much useless unless it is a bright day and I rely on the mirrors more - probably due to old habits

I have driven close to 2k kms in the last four weeks and absolutely love the car on the highways - I drive pretty sedately and very rarely go over 100kmph. The car is very different when compared to the Petrol version and having the additional power on tap for quick surges is great. Most of the ADAS features are usable and non-intrusive though both your options have them anyway.

[petro_phoenix]

Hello BHPians,
Requesting your 2 cents on a dilemma.

Context:
I drive almost 20 km everyday in peak traffic (through HiTech city area in Hyderabad) with a monthly airport ride (70 km roundtrip) on the plush ORR. I am deciding between VW Taigun 1.5L DSG and City ZX hybrid. I'm currently driving a 2018 manual Jazz and while it's a great practical package, it makes me frown every time I see an empty patch and try to floor the pedal. So, having a fun engine-gearbox combination is an absolute necessity for the new steed. Some of the factors weighing in on my mind for both these are are:
Taigun:
Pros:

1. On-demand torque on tapping the accelerator.
2. Ride and handling of the Taigun, seems to be perfectly balanced between city and highway needs.
3. 5* Safety.

Cons:

1. Given how I drive in traffic 90% of the distance, with multiple patches slow moving bumper to bumper traffic, DSG is the elephant in the room.
2. Interiors that are designed for 2013. Only the design and feel. Not sure about the longevity, and future rattling.

City Hybrid
Pros:

1. Hybrid technology which seems to give the best of both worlds, an EV-like behaviour in the city with an ICE-like range.
2. The plush feeling as soon as I enter the cabin.
3. Aspirational value of city while growing up as a gen Z kid.
4. The hybrid seems to negate the rubber band effect, which was the only con of the petrol City CVT.

Cons:

1. Lack of exclusivity, with the City looking similar to Amaze.
2. Lack of luggage space. I'd be making monthly airport trips with an extended weekend's worth of luggage for 2 people.
3. The low seating will make me suffer from the high beams of oncoming traffic. City drivers these days seem to be using them on well-lit undivided patches, with no regards for the other bikers and drivers.

Conundrum:
While the number of reported DSG incidents seem to have reduced now, I'm not sure if that's true or the recent victims are just being silent about it, as they've signed up for the risk while buying. At this stage of my life and career, I am apprehensive to spend time on dealing with DSG failures and of landing in a spot where I don't have a car in my garage . Should I avoid having a DSG as the only car in my garage? Also, should I factor in the Honda hybrids being a new technology within India and the service engineers not being experienced to handle the issues? Please advise.

[subrasri]

Folks - I am in a dilemma between V variant & ZX hybrid variant. Currently there's 1lakh cash discount being offered on the V variant and no discounts on the ZX. With this V variant obviously feels more value for money and is almost Rs.2.8 lakhs cheaper on paper in Chennai compared to ZX. Mainly 2 features between these variants is causing the confusion for me to choose - the seat material and the headlight as I intend to keep the car for a long time.

When I sat on both variants I found cushioning in the ZX to be more firmer compared to the fabric seats on the V variant.
The SA was suggesting that with the Honda OEM seat covers the fit and feel should almost match with the leather seats in the ZX variant. Any feedback from existing owners between the comfort of seats across both variants and if fabric seats + seat cover is firm enough and feel comfortable for long drives.

Is the light throw in the V variant (projector halogen) setup good enough for highway drives and how does it compare against the LED lights on the ZX variant.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by subrasri

Folks - I am in a dilemma between V variant & ZX hybrid variant. Currently there's 1lakh cash discount being offered on the V variant and no discounts on the ZX. With this V variant obviously feels more value for money and is almost Rs.2.8 lakhs cheaper on paper in Chennai compared to ZX. Mainly 2 features between these variants is causing the confusion for me to choose - the seat material and the headlight as I intend to keep the car for a long time.

When I sat on both variants I found cushioning in the ZX to be more firmer compared to the fabric seats on the V variant.
The SA was suggesting that with the Honda OEM seat covers the fit and feel should almost match with the leather seats in the ZX variant. Any feedback from existing owners between the comfort of seats across both variants and if fabric seats + seat cover is firm enough and feel comfortable for long drives.

Is the light throw in the V variant (projector halogen) setup good enough for highway drives and how does it compare against the LED lights on the ZX variant.

Seats on the ZX are way superior in terms of cushioning, especially on long drives. The projector setup on the V is not the greatest, but you can always upgrade it at your end. There is no scope for aftermarket improvement with the LED unit of the ZX. What you get is what you have to live with. It is decent but you’ll be wanting more. My preference will be the V, especially with the discounts. You can add seat covers today, and additional foam cushioning a few years down the line once the seats start to sag.

Any benefits or subsidy from the government on strong hybrid in your state?

[src]

Originally Posted by Strider24

Hello bhpians,


Cause of dilemma-

• While I absolutely love is the power delivery and driving experience with hybrid engine in city, I am not able to come to terms with lack of 6 airbags and lane watch assist camera in Hybrid 'V' variant. In my opinion both are a must have features in a car costing Rs.21.7 lakh OTR Pune. This points alone are forcing me to go for petrol ZX variant.
  
• I am also not sure if I would like the headlight throw of projector setup in V variant. being hybrid I won't be able to upgrade them as its an electrical part and will void the warranty.
  
• Not much is known about the maintenance of Hybrid combination in India since it barely a year old launch.

Being very honest you should not compromise on the features of ZX and Disc Brake difference is not felt as I own one ZX CVT while the HeV is with my neighbor.

Also with your usage it does not make sense for the Hybrid much.

Have completed 44k in 30 months with predominantly city traffic usage and I regret missing Hybrid although it was not available during that time.

[subrasri]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

Any benefits or subsidy from the government on strong hybrid in your state?

Thanks for your inputs, plan to check the lighting of both variants in person. More tempted to go with ZX just for the seat comfort, the ivory colour and the overall premiumness. There’s some subsidy being offered in TN for strong hybrid/EV cars but they are only for cars manufactured within the state. Unfortunately most of the popular ones like Honda city eHEV, Toyota hyryder are manufactured in other states and lose out on the benefits.