[Kevinrevvz]

Originally Posted by androdev

Congratulations. Very interesting to see your journey from 530d to EV to Hybrid. If you were to do this again, would you keep 530D for highway trips and EV limited to city use?

Hybrid is definitely the way to go for someone wanting to use a single car for both city and highways. Like you said, once you experience electric/hybrid in slow city traffic, hard to go back to ICE cars.

Thanks androdev. I’m a huge fan of your 11 year S Class thread. Very impressive. I personally owned a W221 S350 before the F10 530d as well. Had to sell due to the myriad of suspension issues.



I had both the 530d and ZS EV for quite sometime and you are right, that’s the best 2 car garage. I sold the BMW due to the typical German issues that started to pop up after 1.3L Kms. My father and I have decided to stay away from high end luxury cars for the time being as we are very satisfied with how good mainstream cars have gotten recently paired to the easy maintenance and peace of mind they offer.



Hence I feel like the e:HEV serves as all the car I need at the moment. Hopefully I’ll move back into the luxury EV segment when I’m personally a lot older.

Originally Posted by parag_bandkar

Congratulations !

I also recently purchased City ZX CVT (Petrol). Let me inform you noise insulation certainly not the best than the cars which you have already experienced.

At this moment, I am just enjoyed new ride. But certainly I am searching how to install noise dampen sheets? whether it has any impact on warranty?

Thanks! In fact I’ve got the full solution as to how to drastically improve the noise insulation of this car. There’s this Russian brand called Dr.Artex who are the leaders in automotive damping. I’ve compiled a list of which material of theirs to use on different parts of the car. Some parts require multiple layers as indicated by a ”+”.

Doors:
Sky Armor + BW + Sky Armor + Lace Expert
Roof:
Sky Armor + Zima
Floor & Boot Floor:
Sky Armor + Vibrobarrier7+
Parcel Shelf:
Sky Armor + Lace Expert
Boot Lid, Boot Side Panel & Rear Fenders:
Sky Armor + Lace Expert
Door Beading:
RedWind 2018
Bonnet:
Sky Armor
Outer Wheel Arches:
VibroBarrier7+

Most big automotive audio shops will be able to carry this out and it won’t affect the warranty. This however is expensive and would cost more then a lakh for everything I’ve mentioned. Just the 4 layer door damping would improve things significantly if you want to keep the costs in check.

Originally Posted by true_sedan

Wow! The obsidian blue colour is fantastic. Congratulations on your new car. I’m in the market for a new car and this is one of my considerations. The biggest drawback I felt was the boot space. What is your opinion on the same?

Cheers!

Thanks! I love this shade but it’s quite hard to keep clean alike any dark shade. I’m content with the boot space as it fits 2 large suitcases plus a soft bag. That suffices my family needs of 3 adults. There’s also quite an adequate hidden compartment below the boot floor for knick knacks. I urge you to check it out in person to see if it would suffice your needs. Cheers!

[Kevinrevvz]

Preface:

Well, this is gonna be one of the more odd comparisons you’ve come across, I request the mods to move it to the appropriate thread if necessary. I used to own quite a few “premium” cars over the last decade such as a Mercedes E270 CDI, BMW 525i, Mercedes S350 and BMW 530d. Recently however, I’ve switched to more modern and more “mainstream” cars such as an MG ZS EV and my most recent acquisition, a 2023 Honda City ZX e:HEV.






I’ve come to the realization that I haven’t been missing much from the German luxury experience. Sure, I miss the snob value of the badge and the intangibles of high end luxury but I definitely don’t miss the unpredictable reliability and the tens of lakhs spent in maintenance. In fact I’ve been quite impressed by how peppy and drivable the ZS EV’s instant torque felt in comparison to the F10 530d it replaced. I quite enjoy the ADAS tech and stellar efficiency on my City e:HEV.




This led me to wonder how my City e:HEV stacked up against it’s more “premium” cousins. The immediate step up for a Hybrid sedan would be the Toyota Camry Hybrid followed by it’s luxury sibling, the Lexus ES300h. Thanks to my friend and fellow Bhpian MitSus for sharing his beautiful Lexus. Here are my thoughts.

Honda City e:HEV ZX:

Cost: ₹25L on-road Cbe
Performance: 8.4s 0-100 (stopwatch)
Average Efficiency: 20Kmpl

Pros:

+Technology: More modern technology and features such as connected tech and ADAS.
+Maintenance Costs: Cheaper to run and maintain

Cons:

-Lack of Exotic Image: Mainstream appeal
-NVH: NVH levels are not on par with true luxury makes.
-Quality: Quality of materials, however best in segment, is no match for the mighty Lexus.

Lexus ES300h:

Cost: ₹82L on-road Cbe
Performance: 8s 0-100 (stopwatch)
Average Efficiency: 18Kmpl

Pros:

+Brand Image: The Lexus Brand commands respect
+Looks: Looks imposing and menacing
+Space: Way more spacious and luxurious cabin
+Audio Quality: Mark Levinson audio on the Luxury variant deserves a special mention
+Build Quality: Lexus quality control, build quality and paint quality is unparalleled
+Intangibles: Attributes that can’t be shown on paper. Includes quality of materials, NVH, ride quality and attention to detail.

Cons:

-Expensive: Several times more expensive to buy. Relatively more expensive to maintain.
-Technology: Technology feels a decade old and surprising omissions of modern day gizmos such as ADAS or connected tech.

Equivalent Attributes:

1. Driving Feel: Both powertrains feel similar and possess similar acceleration and efficiency figures.
2. Problem solved: Both cars solve the same purpose. To be a comfortable, reliable, efficient and effortless daily commuter.

Summary:

Both vehicles solve the same purpose at the end of the day. Everything that the Honda does, the Lexus does better (Technology an exception), but how much better you ask? The difference is in the intangibles.

The Lexus looks better, is more spacious, has better ride quality, better material quality, better NVH and just a more premium and luxurious feel overall.

Does that justify the ₹57L premium? Sensibly, no. Emotionally, yes. The Lexus, across all aspects is better in terms of intangibles but as far as absolute tangibles, the difference is not substantial.

On the contrary, the Honda City e:HEV provides everything that the Lexus ES300h does, albeit at a relatively lesser grade.

This cements the fact that mainstream cars have come a long way since the last decade and the value for money factor is better than it ever was.

For the well to do gentlemen or women who demand the finer things in life, sure the Lexus is all the indulgence one would desire but for the average joe, you’re not missing out on much, getting the brilliant value package that is the Honda City e:HEV.

[parag_bandkar]

Originally Posted by Kevinrevvz

Thanks! In fact I’ve got the full solution as to how to drastically improve the noise insulation of this car. There’s this Russian brand called Dr.Artex who are the leaders in automotive damping. I’ve compiled a list of which material of theirs to use on different parts of the car. Some parts require multiple layers as indicated by a ”+”.

Doors:
Sky Armor + BW + Sky Armor + Lace Expert
Roof:
Sky Armor + Zima
Floor & Boot Floor:
Sky Armor + Vibrobarrier7+
Parcel Shelf:
Sky Armor + Lace Expert
Boot Lid, Boot Side Panel & Rear Fenders:
Sky Armor + Lace Expert
Door Beading:
RedWind 2018
Bonnet:
Sky Armor
Outer Wheel Arches:
VibroBarrier7+

Most big automotive audio shops will be able to carry this out and it won’t affect the warranty. This however is expensive and would cost more then a lakh for everything I’ve mentioned. Just the 4 layer door damping would improve things significantly if you want to keep the costs in check.

Thank you very much. Certainly you have done extensive research.

I did PPF+ Garware Glass filming for an entire car; so i already paid 1L+ over price. Hence bit skeptical that I will go for Roof; else it will cost me double . However certainly I am planning to do noise dampening for doors and engine bay. I must admit that other areas did not trigger me.

Why Engine bay? I felt the moment I rev more than 45KM, engine noise starts increasing and start becoming bit loud. It reduce when reaches to 80. But again its a new car and it requires time to settle.
May be I am giving more attention to noise than required.

Thank you once again. I will check the current pricing here in Pune and let you and all know.

[androdev]

Originally Posted by Kevinrevvz

For the well to do gentlemen or women who demand the finer things in life, sure the Lexus is all the indulgence one would desire but for the average joe, you’re not missing out on much, getting the brilliant value package that is the Honda City e:HEV.

Excellent post. We have a lot of similarities in our ownership and our journey. I am still keeping the old W221/F10, etc. only because the resale value is pittance and the cars are not giving any problems as of now (barring the expected expensive air suspension replacement).

I have no plans or means to replace them with their equivalent new models so I too pondered on this subject of finding cars which give me 80% of the luxury car experience at 20% of the cost (sans the snob value, of course). All my earlier cars were brought new but over the last few years I have become more open to buying used cars especially as I now feel confident of identifying which car models are reliable and how to evaluate a used car. Spending so much time on team-bhp must come to some use That's how I ended up with a used Camry Hybrid - has the basics of a good luxury sedan but comes with Toyota's low cost of ownership.

[revsperminute]

Originally Posted by Kevinrevvz

Well, this is gonna be one of the more odd comparisons you’ve come across,

Wonderfully written, your views on the Honda City are spot-on.

A simple, honest car that won't ever do you wrong. I also have a trusty 2018 CVT in my garage and trust me, I think the whole family is attached more to that car than any of the luxury marques in our garage.

Frankly speaking, no mass-market car appeals to me besides the Honda City. Pure envy looking at your shining clean-green hybrid machine. You've just pushed me one step closer to finally buying a new one.

[CarCraze]

Originally Posted by Kevinrevvz

The car is still going through its break in period and I’m keen to share my first impressions after the first service.

Congratulations on your purchase. I really wanted to get a city hybrid, but due to budget issues had to settle for a petrol version. Great that you had it delivered so soon. Honda having a great product still is not pushing it with long waiting times. Yours is not the first time where I heard the dealer doesn't know when will a hybrid be delivered.
I would love hear more from your ownership experience

[razeetg]

Originally Posted by Kevinrevvz

Thanks! In fact I’ve got the full solution as to how to drastically improve the noise insulation of this car. There’s this Russian brand called Dr.Artex who are the leaders in automotive damping. I’ve compiled a list of which material of theirs to use on different parts of the car. Some parts require multiple layers as indicated by a ”+”.

Wow! I was not even aware of these kind of products available in the market. As far as the e:Hev is concerned, I don't think it has much of a vibration issue even when the engine is engaged and is at high rev, not even the in the steering wheel which is where some cars with decent vibration isolation have a bit more pronounced vibration. So I was wondering if just using the sound dampers is going to be of any help. Do you have some insights on this?

[vijaykr]

Originally Posted by src

Have a basic question that is lingering on my mind for few days.
Currently I have the Petrol 5G ZX CVT City and completed 42k in 30 months.

During my travel to Kolkata in May'23 had covered 500 Kms in 6.5 Hours from Bangalore to Tangaturu Toll Plaza. Can I do this in Hybrid?
And in this case do I need to fuel up very often since at high speeds it runs on fuel.

Below is what I got on my last week's trip from Bangalore. I took this pic at the end of the 9 hour drive. You can see fuel consumption bar is around half-way level for a distance covered of 420+ kms and it still shows 400+ km to empty

Not that I actually got that many additional kms but my refueling is significantly lesser since I got the hybrid 7 months ago. I am yet to do a short writeup of my experience so far, but hope to get that done soon.

[src]

Originally Posted by vijaykr

Below is what I got on my last week's trip from Bangalore. I took this pic at the end of the 9 hour drive. You can see fuel consumption bar is around half-way level for a distance covered of 420+ kms and it still shows 400+ km to empty

Not that I actually got that many additional kms but my refueling is significantly lesser since I got the hybrid 7 months ago. I am yet to do a short writeup of my experience so far, but hope to get that done soon.

Thanks Vijay. So this confirms that my Usage actually warrants a Hybrid with the Cost Difference

[Kevinrevvz]

Originally Posted by razeetg

Wow! I was not even aware of these kind of products available in the market. As far as the e:Hev is concerned, I don't think it has much of a vibration issue even when the engine is engaged and is at high rev, not even the in the steering wheel which is where some cars with decent vibration isolation have a bit more pronounced vibration. So I was wondering if just using the sound dampers is going to be of any help. Do you have some insights on this?

Hey! The powertrain of the e:HEV is indeed very silent and vibration-free. It does get quite noisy when going uphill as it constantly holds 3-4K RPM yet the aforementioned products aren’t meant to primarily solve engine noise. They’re used to drastically mitigate road, tyre and wind noise depending on the material and layers used which is otherwise a sore point in the Honda City. It also improves audio quality and bass especially if you plan on upgrading the speakers.

[supermax]

Originally Posted by Kevinrevvz

To begin with, I must mention how I got here. In 2021 I replaced my aging F10 BMW 530d with 1.3L Kms with a more sensible, modern car, an MG ZS EV. I was so excited to get into electrification and this seemed like a great way to do so.

The charging infrastructure in south India is extremely good thanks to Zeon Chargers which are very reliable and conveniently placed across most highways. This made highway trips a breeze in theory. In reality however, we have way too many EVs in comparison to the number of chargers at each location making every 30 minute charging stop a 1 to 2 hour one waiting for the people before me to finish. This made long trips a time consuming affair.

The problem you faced is sad, but the writing was on the wall. In fact, with more people getting onto the EV bandwagon, the problem is only going to get much worse. Even with increased number of EV charging stations, the fact that cars are going to be hogging the station for upto 40 minutes at a time (in some cases even longer, due to charging inconsistencies, people's fixation with charging to 100%, and what not) mean that there won't be enough free charging posts for all, and the solution isn't simply adding more and more stations, as each station will have to be used a great number of times for the return on investment. As a result, it's not something that can be expected to ramp up linearly, in lock-step with increasing number of EVs on the road.

EVs make a lot of sense for people with sub 100 km commute rides, as they don't then have to depend on public chargers, instead being able to use cheap overnight charging at home, for all of their charging needs. For those who use it less than 12-15k km per year, they'll not even see a return on their investment, even given the fuel savings, and for those who need to drive long distances, it just doesn't make sense, given the ever-worsening queue situation with charging. Sweden has recorded wait-times of several hours for charging during national holidays and popular festivals, with higher number of EV users hitting the streets, and this is unfortunately going to be the case in India too, unless there's a paradigm shift in charging technology allowing for sub 10 minute charging.

[vkarora]

I got call from a dealer in Chandigarh offering 1L discount on the VX model. The company is trying to push through the stock. No discounts on ZX, max 20k

Chandigarh also rolled out its new Hybrid and EV policy, mentioning no Road Registration tax. Is it confirmed. Anyone right now in the city can confirm ?

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by src

During my travel to Kolkata in May'23 had covered 500 Kms in 6.5 Hours from Bangalore to Tangaturu Toll Plaza. Can I do this in Hybrid?
And in this case do I need to fuel up very often since at high speeds it runs on fuel.

A hybrid is just like any other petrol car. You can cover a similar distance without any issues. You would need to fill up a little less often as it provides higher mileage. Otherwise, you drive in in a similar manner. You should easily be able to drive 500kms without needing to refill.

[AnshumanS001]

Originally Posted by vkarora

I got call from a dealer in Chandigarh offering 1L discount on the VX model. The company is trying to push through the stock. No discounts on ZX, max 20k

Chandigarh also rolled out its new Hybrid and EV policy, mentioning no Road Registration tax. Is it confirmed. Anyone right now in the city can confirm ?

Yes its correct for cars purchased in Chandigarh and registered here.

[abhatt]

Anything above 25L is just heart over head is what GTO has also said in the past. You get very good automobiles under 25L.

I hate the fact that I have to pay 2X the price for these luxury vehicles compared to my friends in the US. I f a Q3 costs 35-40L in US, how can I justify buying the same thing for 70L here? It's literally a heart-driven decision which is ok but difficult to accept for a few. The snob value is difficult to give up though.

Hence I really hope that the awesome cars like Octavia, Superb don't leave our market.