[Zinda]

Originally Posted by sgm

I have a basic doubt here. If one doesn't go for 4x4, how does a 4x2 RWD Roxx perform better in a tricky situation compared to a FWD vehicle, say a Creta? The modes (mud,sand etc) which changes the ESP/TC etc can help to a very good extent but does it really help when a low-ratio scenario is required ? In this case, wont a RWD alone vehicle be very similar to a FWD vehicle? Won’t an AWD vehicle like XUV700 AWD perform better compared to a 4x2 Roxx ?

This is a great question! Let me attempt to answer it.

In isolation, FWD is advantageous in slippery conditions due to better traction and weight advantage, compared to RWD.
In almost all other situations, RWD shines.

However, considering the specific examples you have mentioned -

RWD Roxx still has
- suspension with extra articulation
- ladder on frame build for extra rigidity, torsional rigidity and high ground clearance
- Offroad/All terrain tyres to get enough traction

With this, RWD Thar Roxx will certainly be better than Creta or other FWD suv. All drive modes/Traction control are ineffective when H/T tyres treads are filled with sand/muck, and lose traction.


XUV700 AWD certainly has advantage in engine sending torque to both axles, but that's limited due to the HT tyres, suspension etc, so XUV700 AWD performing better than Roxx RWD is debatable. However, offroad tyres and suspension upgrade can certainly improve the AWD's capabilities.

[Earthroamer]

Originally Posted by sgm

I have a basic doubt here. If one doesn't go for 4x4, how does a 4x2 RWD Roxx perform better in a tricky situation compared to a FWD vehicle, say a Creta? The modes (mud,sand etc) which changes the ESP/TC etc can help to a very good extent but does it really help when a low-ratio scenario is required ? In this case, wont a RWD alone vehicle be very similar to a FWD vehicle? Won’t an AWD vehicle like XUV700 AWD perform better compared to a 4x2 Roxx ? If 4x4 is not needed, why not go for AWD or just FWD CUVs which give better on-road manners and FE?

In any tricky situation, where traction is going to be an issue, like a slushy road after rain, slippery ghat section or any uphill terrain with gravel and mud, an RWD will always trump any FWD.

A FWD will put the power down and steer on the same wheels at the same time. It will always be at a disadvantage when compared to an RWD, which puts power on back wheels and steering can be done by front wheels. This gives more "push" to the front wheels offering more traction and hence the control. FWDs are relatively cheaper to manufacture, because of less drivetrain parts required, and can do the perfect job for general road users, which is why we get more FWDs

You probably get confused by watching videos of RWD mustang losing traction whenever accelerating, but that's got do with more torque given to the rear wheels without sufficient load/ traction on the vehicle, which makes tyres spin and lose control.

In general, for traction on tricky road conditions,

4wd>AWD>RWD>FWD

[kgt.v8]

Originally Posted by Bluebird_7

Hello Bhpians,
Since many of us have taken a detailed look, driven the vehicle, have watched reviews and read through each other's opinion , what are your plans on buying it or are considering other vehicle ?

Would appreciate community help and what do you suggest ? Also would like to know your buying decision regarding Roxx.

If you are looking at 1 car in your garage only which will be used primarily for touring with family and once a year trip to Leh, Ladakh then XUV700 AWD would be good option to consider.
Things in favor of XUV700
- Fold 3rd row of XUV700 and you get ample space to stow your luggage
- Decent number of cubby holders
- Space in door to keep regular stuff
You cannot venture into offroad streams, adventurous off beaten tracks, rivulets with XUV700 AWD.

Things in favor of Roxx
- RWD will give better grip with your stored luggage on ghats and uphills
- Better wheel articulation compared to monocoque XUV700. So you can take it through some more adventurous roads as compared to XUV700.
If you consider Roxx RWD only, then your options are still limited as RWD can get stuck in mud, muck and streams when tires lose grip.
The limits of Roxx
- Very limited cubby holders in the cabin to keep stuff which families need for a longer trip - 1 liter water bottle holder, some space in door to keep miscellaneous stuff like napkin/tissues, space to keep snacks like chips, small biscuit packs which end up at times in door storage pockets.
You can get aftermarket seat back holders for some of these stuffs, but then they eat up into the legroom of backseat and may not match interior of the car.

Give all thoughts to practical things you typically carry on those road trips before considering the Roxx. If you and your family can live with the limitations and use aftermarket accessories, then go for Roxx eyes closed.

[CArider]

I was eagerly waiting for the Thar 5 door (Roxx) for donkey's years as I have been a big fan of Jeep style SUVs, but Rubicon was always outside the budget whereas the Thar 3 door had practical challenges for a family man.

For context, I am a young father in my early 30's and have a small family of 3. So far, I was always hestant in buying the Thar 3 door due to limited utility and practical challenges possessed by the car.

Thar Roxx is certainly not only an extended version of the existing Thar, but a feature rich car which has the capability to compete with C segment SUVs in the domestic market. I am amazed by the whole set of features that Mahindra has built for the new Thar.

Here's a summary of positives and negatives based on the test drives, showroom display and videos I have seen so far.

+ve's
1. NVH is superior. Car is very silent, Diesel engine feels like petrol in terms of noise.
2. Styling and feel - Looks continue to maintain the originality of a Jeep and yet they have evolved over the years by being trendy and classy.
3. Modern features such as LED headlamps, ADAS L2, sunroof,
4. electronic steering has made the overall driving experience much superior as compared to its previous version.
5. Alloys and design looks classy. (I know this could be a controversial statement to make, but to my eyes both the C pillar design and the alloys have been pleasant).


-ve's
1. I am 5'8", but during the test drive I would feel my left knee hitting the console. Would have been great to have a telescopic steering to adjust according to comfort. Not many people have observed this issue, so probably I will get adjusted in sometime.
2. Panaromic sunroof is a great design element, but its impossible to use during summers (due to heat), winters (pollution) and rainy season. This has a very limited use case in the Indian setting, but bringing alot more maintenance challenges along with it.
3. A bit of body roll, which is likely to stay due to its body on frame chasis as compared to a monocorque car (wont call them SUVs).
4. Display could have been better (Its a great improvement from 3door Thar, but I would have loved to see something similar to XUV AX7L.
5. It might still be a bit challenging for old age people to climb in and out of the car.
6. Everyone is talking about lack of bottle holders in the top variant, but I wonder why is that a challenge? Its okay, Mahindra has fit in so many other things in the cabin at the cost of the bottle holders, but if you really need it, please feel free to add those after market.

I wish
- the back seats could recline further to allow an even more comfortable seating experience for the rear passengers.
- A hybrid 4x4 which I could keep longer (more than 10 years as is the case with Diesel powertrains in NCR). Historically I have kept all my cars for 10++ years.
- xxx

I still need to test the Thar Roxx at 100+ and see how the car behaves as compared to what I have driven so far in my life.

In a way its unfair to compare a Thar to a Seltos or Creta or Hector or any other monocorque car as I firmly believe that those cars are made for the masses with day to day practicality in mind, but dont have the inherent features of a strong SUV. This is a SUV where in Mahindra has now added alot more practicality to achieve a mass adoption. I still feel those who like the comfort of monocorque pseduo SUV's might not really move to Thar, but those sitting on the fence like me would definitely do.

Verdict
I have been waiting for a more practical Thar all this long. (I fancy boxy 4X4's and would have picked up a Jimny, but it lacks city drive, that pulse and practicality for many reasons) and hence this car serves my natural choice. I would most likely be booking it in first week of January to pick up a 2025 model (also once the teething issues have come to light and necessary improvements have been made by Mahindra in their subsequent batches of production). Since I like the C pillar design, I might go for the white color, but the deep forest and nebula blue are in the fray right now. I will let some cars come on street and will then decide on which color to opt for.

Thanks

PS - this is my first blog on team-bhp so apologies for any errors or misses.

[vredesbyrd]

The price seems to be reasonable, but would have been even nicer if it were 1L cheaper on the AXL7 4x4 AT.

But one has to account for all the things it has to offer above Scorpio N (360 camera, panoramic sunroof, ADAS and ventilated seats).

Going for a test drive this weekend. I am still salty about not getting a 360 camera on the Scorpio. For some reason, it is taking far too long for anyone to develop a stage-1 remap and aftermarket 360 camera solution that works with the OEM system.

[amrutmhatre90]

Originally Posted by CArider

I was eagerly waiting for the Thar 5 door (Roxx) for donkey's years as I have been a big fan of Jeep style SUVs, but Rubicon was always outside the budget whereas the Thar 3 door had practical challenges for a family man.

PS - this is my first blog on team-bhp so apologies for any errors or misses.

Very well put, I am too in same boat and we share exact same positives and negatives.
I have a elders in my family which will occasionally join us.

Pre-booked the Thar Roxx White, but we will be checking out Seltos this weekend. Wifey says Thar Roxx only, lets see how the test drive goes.

Its a heart vs head decision

[Mystic]

In my personal opinion which may not be appreciated by all is that Mahindra should have released ROXX only in petrol 4X4 Automatic. Just 2 lakhs more for a 4X4 over RWD is not much and am sure most can afford when I see people taking the cars from showroom and selling the OEM tyres for nothing to buy costly AT tyres. Majority of car buyers now a days have a descent knowledge of the advantage of the additional hardware of 4X4 even if it is not used frequently. Another option is automatic, why give manual option as automatic is a norm in most of the western countries and India is not too behind them now in 2024. Another option is Petrol. Why Diesel in 2024 with all confusing statements by Govt. Buy piece of mind from DPF issues by buying Petrol.

I don't know if Maruti must have thought through the above logic and released 4X4 Petrol automatic option and why Mahindra is leaving this option to many die hard fans of Thar to look for other options like Jimny.

[Sober_Motorhead]

Thar Roxx test drive – a driving enthusiasts’ take

One word summary – RESPECT. Irrespective of purchase decision.

Vehicle and test drive conditions
- Vehicle was Petrol AT 2WD AX7L, with 1,100 kms on the odometer.
- Drove about 20 kms overall, on smooth, not-so-smooth, bad, and completely broken patches.
- Speeds upto 80 kmph
- Three relatively lightweight passengers from the dealership – Sireesh Auto, Bommasandra, Bangalore.

The drive
- Reasonably comfortable driving position. I’m 5’7’’.
- Steering feels intuitively precise. You can dart into spaces carrying speed. Impressive for BoF standards.
- Handles quite well. Felt nimble, surefooted, confidence inspiring as one goes about pushing / hammering the car, during the test drive.
- Rides well (BoF standards) on smooth, bad, and completely broken roads. Tested at slow, medium and around 80kmph.
- On ‘not-so-smooth’ roads, it rides ‘not-so-smooth’. Especially at moderate speeds.
- Suspension lumpiness feel for a BoF - in most conditions - by far the best in India; maybe on par with the Lexus GX & LX (previous versions), better than Ford 150, RAM trucks, Jeep’s for sure. The Infiniti QX80 / Nissan Patrol with Air Suspension is far, far superior. Haven’t driven the Raptor’s and Bronco.
- Suspension lumpiness feel for a BoF – on non-machine laid country type roads – does not feel that great. Any one buying will need to drive extensively on such roads before deciding.
- Left to right sway – much better than, for reference, a Scorpio N.
- Engine + AT combo tuned for our conditions. Useful driving aids.
- Feels solidity put together.

Enjoyed the drive. Think the fun quotient of the Thar Roxx is significantly better than most similar & higher priced SUV’s.

However, for the ones who are looking at this as the primary, or do it all car, a far more nuanced test drive is required,. Also, recommend waiting for a more detailed TeamBHP expert review.

It’s an amazing machine. Priced reasonably well – in my view. From my perspective, getting comfort that the vehicle components are actually going to be durable, will give me confidence to use it in 4x4 format. AX5L AT 4X4 is my pick.

[CArider]

Originally Posted by amrutmhatre90

Very well put, I am too in same boat and we share exact same positives and negatives.
I have a elders in my family which will occasionally join us.

Pre-booked the Thar Roxx White, but we will be checking out Seltos this weekend. Wifey says Thar Roxx only, lets see how the test drive goes.

Its a heart vs head decision

Absolutely it is a heart vs head decision & in the end, its the heart which prevails over the head.

[wooka]

May I puncture the argument with this one simple fix for everyone on a budget?

Get any 4x2 model and retrofit the locking differential. It'll cost less than a lakh and will significantly improve traction in demanding situations.

1. I know that the old school MLD is an option.
2. I also know that the new ELD is an option, subject to your risk appetite. I'd prefer this, frankly.

This is what I may just do. If anyone wants my 3-door, in noida, hit me up

A 4x2 with an MLD will perform admirably. If either of the rear tyres have traction, we're sorted. Remember, we don't have central locking differentials on any of these vehicles, so a 4x2 Thar with a physically locking diff will trump any AWD in most situation, I feel.

Throw in the fact that when one needs a locked rear diff without the potential All-4-wheels-locked situation, one has the option now, without axle bind up!

This is something that has been explored on the Jimny forum as well. Believe me, very often, I'd like a locker rear axle without the risk of axle wind up on tarmac.

4WD central diff > 4WD transfer case > 4x2 ELD RWD > 4x2 MLD RWD > 4x2 > AWD > a Creta.

So pay ~50-60k for the customization and end up with a pretty capable vehicle. Mahindra sells this as an option on the bolero Neo top variant. I may just take the leap, esp as I already have a winch from the 3 door that I can repurpose.

My approach - the AX3L AT petrol with a locker
I'd really appreciate the safety upgrade.

[for_cars1]

Originally Posted by wooka

Get any 4x2 model and retrofit the locking differential. .

All 4x2 Roxx variants come with a brake locking differential anyway which should be good enough should one of the rear driving wheels lose traction.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by Mystic

I don't know if Maruti must have thought through the above logic and released 4X4 Petrol automatic option and why Mahindra is leaving this option to many die hard fans of Thar to look for other options like Jimny.

Maruti does not have powertrain choices that would fit a RWD layout. When Gypsy was around there was an ask for a diesel with Fiat engine , but Maruti did not bother anyway.

Coming to ROXX, even if petrol is offered the sales numbers will be quite less given the size of the vehicle, the owners who buy larger vehicles tend to use them quite a bit and diesel will be the default choice.

DPF / DEF etc is no longer a problem, you won't even know it's there till you see DEF fluid in the service bill. Tons of Boleros and Scorpios are sold to police and other public service offices, running errands in town. Drivers and owners are well aware of the do's and don'ts now.

[emperor_raizen]

Originally Posted by sgm

I have a basic doubt here. If one doesn't go for 4x4, how does a 4x2 RWD Roxx perform better in a tricky situation compared to a FWD vehicle, say a Creta? The modes (mud,sand etc) which changes the ESP/TC etc can help to a very good extent but does it really help when a low-ratio scenario is required ? In this case, wont a RWD alone vehicle be very similar to a FWD vehicle? Won’t an AWD vehicle like XUV700 AWD perform better compared to a 4x2 Roxx ? If 4x4 is not needed, why not go for AWD or just FWD CUVs which give better on-road manners and FE?

The difference lies in the way the 2 systems distribute power in the wheels. While a 4x4 SUV comes with a transfer case to divide power between the front and rear axles, an AWD system automatically distributes power between the two axles using a central differential. A 4x4 system, by virtue of the high- and low-ratio gears present in the transfer case, requires the driver to manually engage either of them using a switch/lever.

On the other hand, an AWD system uses a coupling/clutch system in the centre differential, and constantly monitors wheel traction by using sensors to automatically adjust power depending on wheel slip. +, a 4x4 system also gets optional locking differentials to transmit power equally to both wheels on the same axle for combating extremely difficult situations, whereas an AWD system uses open differentials with electronic controls for power distribution.
Therefore, a 4x4 is better suited even in extreme off-road situations, while an AWD system, with its continuous power variation between the front and rear axles, is more suitable for moderate off-road scenarios, as well as for gaining better traction on the road.

It goes without saying that these are just hardwares, and we wouldn't be seeing Altos and S-pressos in the Himalayan states in such massive numbers at all if drivers' skills and patience had nothing to do with combating tricky situations.
With electronic safety equipments now being standardized across cars, FWDs have come a long way from their "RWDs are better than FWDs anyday" days.

[Bluebird_7]

So people booking with an intention to buy it, what are you choosing ?
I am going ahead with AX5L D AT 4WD Tango Red.

If moderators can create a poll that should be helpful.

[Vtach]

Originally Posted by emperor_raizen

Iwe wouldn't be seeing Altos and S-pressos in the Himalayan states in such massive numbers at all if drivers' skills and patience had nothing to do with combating tricky situations

Sir

That distribution of private car ownership in hills has much more to do with

1. Those cars being cheaper & small, easier to park & maneuver through the congested small roads & lanes in most hill towns. The parking woes just keep on increasing with little attention from preoccupied politicians & civic bodies.

2. Those hill people not having much disposable money to spend on cars hence preferring cheaper ones. Even if relatively better off, the bigger cars are a hassle to live with due to small roads.

3. Maruti's fantastic reach, better than any other OEM

Driving skills you can acquire with any vehicle over time by doing the routes again & again, and patience is more of a forced necessity there than an inherent virtue; experience gained from traffic jams that get compounded when people try to force their way through, esp impatient tourists. Though just like anywhere else, there will be exceptions.

Parameters like more power, 4x4,AWD,RWD etc are not as much a consideration as invariably they come at a higher price point &/or with bigger size/ issues with availability of service centers. The lighter weight of the Marutis may also help with a better power to weight ratio, but that'll be more of a happy co-occurance and not a purchase decision consideration.

Agree with your other inputs though