[surjaonwheelz]

Originally Posted by Shumi_21

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for a new helmet under 15k.
The ones in my list are:
1. Sol Metal Man
2. HJC CL 17
3. HJC IS 17
4. HJC FG 17
5. LS2 Arrow C Evo

I am looking for a better venting system than my current LS2 FF 342 Corsa. Will really appreciate everyone's views and/or suggestions if I have missed out any model. Thanks in anticipation!

Hi Shumi,

I don't own any of the above helmets but what I've learnt from fellow riders is SOL helmets are heavier, visors availability may be an issue as it was out of market for some time and is back again.

HJC are always VFM, decide on features & model of your preference. FG is Snell approved, IS is not (due to internal SV, read the posts above). CL is much more affordable, hence not considering!

LS2 you know the best as you are using one.

I would also suggest you to check out the Airoh helmets, particularly the Valor model.
https://www.airoh.com/motorcycle-hel...ull-face/valor

It has good ventilation and visibility, comes for aroung 10.5 for solid colors and 11.5 for graphics.

You can order from Team Driven, Pune.
https://teamdrivenindia.com/product/...-gloss-helmet/

In addition you can check out the premium offerings from MT, Matrix and KRE SV.

https://www.spartanprogear.com/produ...nt=31037469892

Matrix has a 5 Star Sharp rating at around 11k but is a bit stuffy because of the same reason!

https://www.spartanprogear.com/produ...nt=22571771844

KRE SV is the premium offering from MT with an inter sun visor (if you like it)

I would look at above options if I was out in the market for a new lid in this price range.

If you are into sporty riding then HJC FG 17 should serve you well. Else if you are into touring then the Airoh Valor or MT KRE SV should serve your purpose. As you are from Mumbai the ventilation factor is very important for you as mentioned in your post.

Happy shopping!

Cheers,
--surjaonwheelz

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by Shumi_21

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for a new helmet under 15k.
The ones in my list are:
1. Sol Metal Man
2. HJC CL 17
3. HJC IS 17
4. HJC FG 17
5. LS2 Arrow C Evo

I am looking for a better venting system than my current LS2 FF 342 Corsa. Will really appreciate everyone's views and/or suggestions if I have missed out any model. Thanks in anticipation!

HJC FG 17 or HJC IS 17 (if you want internal sun visor). Stay away from LS2/Sol/Airoh etc at these price points - HJC is a well reputed & rated brand. Even at lower price points - i would stick to MT rather than LS2/Airoh etc.

[surjaonwheelz]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

Stay away from LS2/Sol/Airoh etc at these price points - HJC is a well reputed & rated brand. Even at lower price points - i would stick to MT rather than LS2/Airoh etc.

Hello ethanhunt,

Help us understand why not Airoh? Why it does not qualify for, "a well reputed & rated brand?"

LS2 has a problem of fakes which are sometimes sold as fakes at cheaper prices and sometimes not!

The feel & experience of an Airoh is very good! We want to understand why you're writing them off? Any personal experience?

Airoh Valor




Cheers,
--surjaonwheelz

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by surjaonwheelz

Hello ethanhunt,

Help us understand why not Airoh? Why it does not qualify for, "a well reputed & rated brand?"

LS2 has a problem of fakes which are sometimes sold as fakes at cheaper prices and sometimes not!

The feel & experience of an Airoh is very good! We want to understand why you're writing them off? Any personal experience?

Airoh Valor

As you rightly said - too many fake LS2 in the market. For Airoh - the helmet you suggested doesnt have either ECE or DOT rating (atleast i couldnt find it). Why risk your head on it then rather than buying a ECE/DOT rated HJC.

[surjaonwheelz]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

For Airoh - the helmet you suggested doesnt have either ECE or DOT rating (atleast i couldnt find it). Why risk your head on it then rather than buying a ECE/DOT rated HJC.

Hey,

This is what I could find. Airoh Valor is ACU Gold Approved. Now what is that? It's the British (UK) certification of racing helmets! [Link here]

It also complies to ECE 22.05 standard. This is present in all their seller's page globally. [Link here]

I suggested the helmet for ventilation, the downside of ventilation is wind noise! But again its Shumi's personal choice for which one to go for as per his requirements. 10k to 15k is still a lot of money, and I think products will definitely live upto their value.

Happy riding!

--surjaonwheelz

[Crankpin]

HJCs are excellent value for money. Even the mid-range ones are very good helmets. I have survived a crash with an HJC and it really did its job well.
Good fit and comfort even after 3 years of heavy use. Visor availability could be an issue but I'm yet to order a new Visor.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Big relief.

[Ricci]

I have posted this same article before, and doing it again.

https://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Mo...stHelmets.html

It is a little out of date now, but the methodology and science stands. SNELL has since reduced the permissible Gs to consider a helmet 'pass', in the 2010 and 2015 SNELL standards, bringing them closer to the ECE one. The gist of this article is that, most motorcycle accidents don't involve slamming into a concrete wall at 200km/h - but something much less severe, usually hitting pavement or a car, at considerably lower speed, and at that speed, the Snell conforming helmets can be too 'hard' for you, while the 'softer' non-SNELL helmets will do a better job of reducing the impact/G's passed on to your head. I don't think NCAP has a similar predicament - a car that's designed to keep occupants safe in a 200km/h crash, might be too stiff for 100km/h one.

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

I am not skipping anything - Helmet safety ratings are too subjective & different unlike the NCAP crash ratings. For eg. Snell & Sharp have different peak energy allowances, number of impacts, energy levels used etc. Sharp also uses data based on European riding conditions which might be very different from Indian/US riding conditions.

I for one - will trust my $650 Shoei more than the $100 MT Revenge - despite the difference in Sharp ratings.

How do you declare helmet safety ratings are subjective, when there are established test and measurement criteria defined? NCAP does the same, the only subjectivity is in the final star rating , where 1 to 5 scale isn't clear - is 4 star twice as good as a 2 star, or is it exponentially better like a decibel scale? SHARP's ratings a bit less subjective, IMO - if you read through them.

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

The Mustang argument absolutely doesn't make sense, I agree. That's why I never used that example . Its not about money, but the actual performance (in a crash)

An Arai Corsair V for example carries a 3 star Sharp rating and is available for sale to the (rich) junta, and yet protects Dani Pedrosa's head when he crashes at over 200 KPH

Good enough for me. The Sharp rating can go fly a kite

And NCAP rating, can they go fly another kite too? The helmets given to MotoGP racers are custom made to fit after scanning each head - you and I cannot buy that kind of lid unless you threw like $500,000 at them. Just because the brand reads the same, doesn't quite make the universally sold helmet in the shop equal to the MotoGP article.

Originally Posted by Red Liner

From what i gathered online, arai makes helmets suited specifically for snell only. Every other rating comes after that. Understandable, considering arai specializes around track helmets as a mainstay. Now the MT lids all have inner sun visors, and they do well in sharp. Where are they with snell?

Read up more on the inner sun visor element, and you will understand where arai comes from. They are not all marketing. Hell, they do not market at all!

True, Arai's biggest market is America, and what do the Americans look for? The Snell badge.

I have read the sunvisor argument (I myself bought an MT Blade without sunvisor thinking of the thinner EPS liner to make room for the visor) - but there are helmets that have a sunvisor and are 5 star rated - SNELL doesn't bother to rate them all, but if they tested, maybe we'd know if they pass SNELL standards (and I'm expecting at least a few will). SHARP's methods come after DOT and ECE , and we're measuring force after all - be it Snell or ECE or SHARP. The less force measured inside the helmet past the EPS, the better.

Originally Posted by Red Liner

I stick with snell. And i stick with what moto gp and formula 1 wears. I do not see a single MT there. Remember, even if you pay these guys a million bucks, they and the FIA value life over everything else. Quality ALWAYS comes first.

Do you see any Schuberth on the grid? That's a very highly reputed European brand, but not on the grid.
Do you see an LS2 and KYT there? They're of the same brand value as MT. But like I said, the helmet sold in the shop is way different from the helmets custom made in limited quantity for each rider. And I doubt they'd be wearing KYTs and LS2s if they felt only Arai make race worthy helmets. Jumping to conclusions from something like this , say, does Kawasaki's non-participation in MotoGP mean they're inferior products?

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Is the MT revenge snell rated then? They are not. They are ece and dot approved. And sharp rated. So ask yourself, why hasnt it been sent for snell approvals?

MT don't get Snell rated because they don't have a big presence in the US (apparently - they are not formally present in the US market, some distributors handle the import and supply chain) , the only market where Snell is relevant. EU , Australia , Japan have their own standards and MT don't conform to Aus or Japanese standards since they don't sell there.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Keeping aside the 3* vs 4* vs 5* rating discussion for a minute, the difference between riding with a good mid range helmet and a top of the line one is startling. You typically benefit from better visibility (visor clarity is often underrated), great airflow, very comfortable cushioning and lighter weight that combine for a much better riding experience.

I found that Big Bear Customs in Bangalore had stock of the Shark Race R Pro (which is 5* SHARP rated) which I just loved and bought for Rs 32,000. Yes, the SHARP rating was the deciding factor for me.

Excellent deal, do put up a few pics of the same.

Bottomline, before the Snell/SHARP score, buy a helmet that fits your head best. Even if its score is lower than higher rated helmet that fits looser or less stable on your head.

All my helmets ended up being 3 star rated - I purchased them without strictly checking SHARP ratings, and though I think for my next helmet I'll try to limit to a 5 star rated one, I can't rely on any rating - SNELL included, because motorcycle crashes are all so different, it's not guaranteed the best, most expensive lid will fare substantially better than a reputed cheaper brand. Just like being in a Mercedes Benz didn't save princess Diana from a 200km/h crash , just like Simoncelli's top end AGV (Corsa/Pista GP) helmet didn't help him live - it flew off on impact and this is AGV's race helmet we're talking about. Just like hard core Snell fans, there are those whose logic is "if Rossi races wearing X, it has to be the best."

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by Ricci

I have posted this same article before, and doing it again.

https://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Mo...stHelmets.html

It is a little out of date now, but the methodology and science stands. SNELL has since reduced the permissible Gs to consider a helmet 'pass', in the 2010 and 2015 SNELL standards, bringing them closer to the ECE one.

I was actually going to quote you earlier for the fact that the article discusses the obsolete 2005 SNELL standard, actually the fact is there are several such articles that I came across when I was trying to research the most technically sound helmets, that point out flaws in nearly every standard out there including the SHARP standard.

Originally Posted by Ricci

MT don't get Snell rated because they don't have a big presence in the US (apparently - they are not formally present in the US market, some distributors handle the import and supply chain) , the only market where Snell is relevant. EU , Australia , Japan have their own standards and MT don't conform to Aus or Japanese standards since they don't sell there.

Doesn't have the ACU Gold sticker either which is to my knowledge the requirement for track use in the UK.

Originally Posted by Ricci

Bottomline, before the Snell/SHARP score, buy a helmet that fits your head best. Even if its score is lower than higher rated helmet that fits looser or less stable on your head.

right fit comes first, then comfort of the inner lining/ventilation/visor mechanisms etc. As far as safety goes, I am fairly confident in most of these brands anyway.

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Doesn't have the ACU Gold sticker either which is to my knowledge the requirement for track use in the UK.

Some interesting news on ACU Gold sticker

https://www.webbikeworld.com/acu-gol...rating-system/

"However, it was recently found that the ACU has been selling ACU Gold stickers to distributors of many different types of motorcycle helmets whether or not they met BSI Type A. It was claimed that since the ACU received a royalty for the use of the sticker that they were devaluing the worth of the ACU Gold sticker by selling them to many undeserving motorcycle helmet manufacturers."

[Ricci]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

I was actually going to quote you earlier for the fact that the article discusses the obsolete 2005 SNELL standard, actually the fact is there are several such articles that I came across when I was trying to research the most technically sound helmets, that point out flaws in nearly every standard out there including the SHARP standard.

True, that's where the science of crashing, and materials/energy , needs to be figure out and build upon, or if they already have that knowledge, now come out and tell the riding public in plain English what they know. SHARP seems to have taken this route (of conveying to the public) better, though the black art/science of energy absorption/dissipation is not clear.

For example, you know what material lot of premium helmet brands use for the shell ?

They're usually composites - frequently called tri-composites because they layer glass-fiber, aramid (kevlar) and certain other thermosets, with differing ratios and processing parameter, so that they can all claim proprietary rights, but none of them have been tested and measured.

HJC call theirs PIM (Premium Integrated Matrix), Shoei call theirs AIM+ , Arai call theirs PB-SNC (Peripheral Belting-Structural Net Composite). Now, fiberglass itself is of several types (the fibers, E and S type being the common ones and S being the superior one). We don't know which brand uses which - now mix other types of polymers into the fray (aramids and other layers) and it's all getting complicated because there are mutiple types of raw materials and processing methods.

For the super-premium models/variants, they get a layer of carbon-fiber (no, I doubt there is any brand that has a full carbon-fiber only shell - it probably will be too expensive, being the main constraint that being too stiff seeing that helmet shells aren't very thick.)

Except that mixing, rather layering different types of fiber-resin composites doesn't really give the maximum benefits of each type. As per this video, an outer layer of carbon fiber is least useful/beneficial since the tensile strengths vary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7bQYEt_qtU

Yet, all the helmet manufacturers use a mix of different layers (I doubt there is any helmet shell that's purely fiber-glass only, either) and then at the premium end, offer carbon fiber helmets that by the explanation in the video above, is quite possibly pointless. This video is not in the context of helmets but generic - say more for composite panels for a race car and you need to decide to use fiber-glass or carbon-fibre or layers of both.

Do the helmet manufacturers know something this guy doesn't ? Or is it that helmets are supposed to be discarded after one/first impact itself, so helmet manufacturers don't bother with that aspect.

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Doesn't have the ACU Gold sticker either which is to my knowledge the requirement for track use in the UK.

As @ethanhunt123 noted, ACU have diluted their credibility by going commercial and selling their stickers without verification.

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

right fit comes first, then comfort of the inner lining/ventilation/visor mechanisms etc. As far as safety goes, I am fairly confident in most of these brands anyway.

Yes, that's the point. Despite advances in materials and understanding of crashes, forces and the effects of those, there are still grey areas and outside of laboratories, real world accidents can be very very diverse, and lab tests cannot reliably replicate all aspects.

What SHARP ratings do show though - if a helmet was hit with a hard, in-compressible object of certain weight and size, with a certain amount of kinetic energy or force, at some specific positions (forehead, sides and back of the head), at specific angles, the amount of energy transmitted to different helmets varies, and the best regarded brands and models don't always come out on top or get all highest scores.

In the real world, you rarely will hit a similar object in exactly similar way- like say a lightpole, exactly at the forehead or side directly vertically ; but if you do, reality may concur with SHARP's test that the 3 star Arai or AGV wasn't any better (or probably worse) than a cheaper but 5 star Kabuto or HJC. As to how the forces get distributed and absorbed at other angles, that's still unclear to most of us, and claiming an Arai or Shoei is safest is more brand faith than proven fact.

This might not cause any fans of X or Y or Z brand to budge, but for the buyer on a budget, they should be clear that buying a $100 plastic helmet isn't anywhere as risky or foolish as helmet brand snobs who'll only wear an "Arai or nothing" (my twisting of the Jockey or nothing ad ) make it out to be, and a $500 helmet isn't 5 times safer. At the same time, you have only 1 head so buying the safest helmet you can afford is the goal, since a difference of 20Gs in a crash could be the difference from a mere concussion to internal hemorrhage perhaps, but buying the safest helmet isn't anywhere as clear-cut even with all the ratings and methods.

[Kenpachi]

Hi everyone,
Looking to get a new full face helmet around the 10-12K mark. I ride a CL 500 and primary usage would be city commute + weekend tours.
Thinking between the Bell Qualifier DLX smoked out version (comes with two visors)
or an HJC IS/ CL 17. Prefer the IS here as it comes with a sun visor but it comes at a 15K premium.

Any suggestions between the two, or any other lid that would be better than these?

[akshayhonda]

Originally Posted by Kenpachi

Hi everyone,
Looking to get a new full face helmet around the 10-12K mark. I ride a CL 500 and primary usage would be city commute + weekend tours.
Thinking between the Bell Qualifier DLX smoked out version (comes with two visors)
or an HJC IS/ CL 17. Prefer the IS here as it comes with a sun visor but it comes at a 15K premium.

Any suggestions between the two, or any other lid that would be better than these?

Opt for either between a IS17 (Heavy and a bit noisy due to ISV) or best is get the FG17. The best bang for the buck. Light, very well ventilated, stable at high speeds and compact.

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[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by Kenpachi

Hi everyone,
Looking to get a new full face helmet around the 10-12K mark. I ride a CL 500 and primary usage would be city commute + weekend tours.
Thinking between the Bell Qualifier DLX smoked out version (comes with two visors)
or an HJC IS/ CL 17. Prefer the IS here as it comes with a sun visor but it comes at a 15K premium.

Any suggestions between the two, or any other lid that would be better than these?

Another option if you can get is Shark S700S - excellent helmet for the price.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by Kenpachi

Hi everyone,
Looking to get a new full face helmet around the 10-12K mark. I ride a CL 500 and primary usage would be city commute + weekend tours. .

Originally Posted by akshayhonda

Light, very well ventilated, stable at high speeds and compact.

A bullet classic 500 that goes above 100kph?