[Senotrius]

Originally Posted by GJ01

He got his license last year Feb. He was out on a joyride with 5 of his friends. They had been to a cafe, then the 6 of them went on a ride. 3 boys, 3 girls - all of them were college friends. The remaining 5 were also held by the police. The driver of the car was beaten up by the crowd, he was hospitalized

With this context, media trial expected as you said. But then, i have doubts if he will be prosecuted since his father allegedly is involved in ONGOING cases and will surely have political links.

Mod Note: Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting a full, long post inconveniences our mobile readers.

[nicodash]

Originally Posted by epiccross

PS: Not at all absolving people, especially the cops of blame. I'm sure this will be conveniently overlooked, how no warning triangles were placed and how the crowds were allowed to gather in the middle of the road. But that doesn't absolve the Jag driver at all IMO.

We're in agreement on this. Jag definitely is at fault. All I was saying was that the fault goes to highway builders, administration, police and spectators, and then to Jag. If either of them had exhibited any intelligence, this tragedy could have been averted.

Originally Posted by GJ01

I work in Gandhinagar and stay in Ahmedabad. I get back home at night around 10 -11. Observations from last night:
Miraculously, all street lights on all flyovers and the highways were on. Most of these used to be off till before yesterday
There was overzealous, active police patrolling. I saw Police jeeps with speed guns deployed on highways at 10 PM, never seen that before.

Thankfully, that stretch of highway will be safe now, for at least 1 week, before everyone forgets about this incident and things return to normal.

There are so many simple things that can be done, but we fail to do them. Better lighting on highways, safer highway designs, functioning speed cams everywhere, fines on people driving recklessly, fines on truck and bus drivers hogging the right lanes, better/real driving license tests etc. These things will cost money, but they will also generate revenue through challans/fines and a lot of money that is lost as a result of these accidents will be saved, such as the compensation to the victims' families and other expenses that administration has to bear in the aftermath of an incident like this.

[Vasuki]

As pointed out before, it seems the Jaguar was not driven using a high beam, from the video. Maybe that led to the driver not noticing the crowd ahead. I'm in no way absolving the guy from his rash driving, but this could be a contributing factor to this catastrophe.

Why I'm pointing this out because have noticed the same phenomenon in my XUV700 where the light throw is really pathetic in the low beam. The high beam is very good, but regarding low beam less said is better. Maybe this is the case with other vehicles too, where the low beam is not good enough for highway runs.

[true_sedan]

Originally Posted by epiccross

My dude, I'm on the same boat - I drove sedately, I was did everything by the book, and yet I got hit by a bus (and thankfully it helped me in minimizing the impact). I know Indian roads are unpredictable and chaos awaits at every turn. Precisely all the more reason to SLOW DOWN when visibility is low.

You are lucky enough to know to drive slowly because of your experience. But imagine this: A newly licensed 18-year-old? We can't expect him/her to know all the unsaid rules of Indian roads especially when you are a beginner. This is why there are rules of the road that need to be properly enforced. I wouldn't blame the Jaguar driver if he was within the speed limit minding his own business at 1 AM in the morning. I blame the state machinery for not training police personnel in case of emergencies and not dispersing the crowd gathered over there. It is high time we stop blaming the overburdened overtaxed motorists on our roads and instead focus our attention on policymakers.

Originally Posted by poised2drive

At the peril of sounding a Hairsplitter, I reckon you honked a couple of seconds late.

The lady on the wheels made her intent obvious at least at 28th second as she veered into the right lane ( which, I know, she is not supposed to do) & you seemed to have honked only at 33rd sec as you were crossing her.

I certainly think a loud/continuous honk from the fast-approaching car behind would have blown senses into her mind and she'd have backed off .

And I only state this due to the fact that I am a regular Highway Driver ( and most two wheelers stop to think about performing their antics when they hear a Honk & louder the honk, more responsive their action)

I honked a couple of seconds late because I was looking far ahead at the upcoming curve on the road and missed the two-wheeler completely. I would've noticed the two-wheeler had it been in the middle lane. The other reason I might've missed is because the two-wheeler was not visible among the road-side vendors dotting the road.

Yes, you're right. Honking is the only thing that works. Off-late I'm seeing a lot of two-wheelers trying to overtake in all lanes. They don't realize how stupid their actions are and drive like they are immortals.

Originally Posted by funkykar

In the video you have posted, right from the beginning it's very clear that it is some 'busy' town section. 100kmph? I doubt if this section is 100kmph. Even if by error it is, defensive and anticipatory driving skills should kick in and drive at the right speed a driver can handle their vehicle. This is where the set speed limits etc should go down the drain. All along, I saw parked vehicles to the side, vendors selling something off the road, some buildings etc. Clearly says it sort of bustling place. 28-30 sec of the video also it felt like you were too fast to pass such a median. Lucky to not have some tvs50/m80 from the other side peek in to take a U turn. There would come surely some locals who despite seeing/hearing several accidents venture into the highway recklessly or they don't care or are simply unaware of the dangers or 'it's not going to happen to me'.

Please take this constructively, my intention wasn't to point at your driving at all. Just 2 cents from my 2-decade long driving on Indian highways spanning several lakh kms.

I agree. Should've driven more defensively. The only reason I accelerated was to get a bit ahead of the BPCL fuel tanker. I did not want a lorry tailing me on a sharp curve. It's not a town, the nearest one is still 3-4 km away from that spot.
You have more road experience than I do. You know how bad it is out there. Every time we start our cars we have to be more careful about not hitting anyone than getting hit ourselves.

[chef-de-jeep]

While the Jag driver must definitely face the law, I don't think the toll operators of the highway or the agency responsible for the lights should be spared. Its a very common occurrence here in Mangalore especially on the toll road near NITK and several other places on highway between Udupi and Talapady to keep the street lights switched off at all times.
On more than one occassion I have had to slam the brakes due to some person (for some reason wearing black clothes) abruptly crossing the road without caring for his life or peace to mine. Always makes me think if the lights are to be put on only for confirming to audits and never use them.

[46TheDoctor]

More than 'overspeeding suspicion', i seems to me that the Jag driver wasnt concentrated on the road ahead. Full braking is applied too late.

Other vehicles appear to have slowed down/ stopped well before the crash site and with Jag's excellent brakes and good headlights, he could have identified the obstacle and stopped in time even if he was overspeeding. He clearly wasnt focussed ahead or probably was too tired to have enough concentration.

Having said that, mistakes from other parties like not using hazard lights/reflectors, unnecessary crowding, lack of street lights are also the contributors here for this disaster.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by true_sedan

I agree. But this is a rule learned through experience and not a rule of the law. Only an experienced person with many kilometers under the belt would know that.

No. It's basic. And it should be realised through ordinary common sense, let alone driving training (which I admit is often poor, and tests even poorer). If you think it takes so many km to learn this, I'm surprised you haven't had more accidents!

I do admit that we do learn by experience. I learned that the speed limit is not necessarily safe, the hard way.

Originally Posted by srvm

... The Jag driver may not have anticipated group of people on a unlit section of the flyover at 1am. But the folks standing on the unlit section of a flyover at 1am SHOULD HAVE anticipated some vehicle at even 70kmph (speed limit?) at this place. What were they thinking?

Yes! Very good point, which we all, so far, missed!

Originally Posted by true_sedan

You are lucky enough to know to drive slowly because of your experience. But imagine this: A newly licensed 18-year-old? We can't expect him/her to know all the unsaid rules of Indian roads especially when you are a beginner.

Nobody should be on the road without basic knowledge of safe driving. Yes, I absolutely admit that the system here does not prevent this in any way, but that does not reduce the responsibility of any driver for an accident.

Big contribution of youth, yes indeed. But it is still his responsibility.

mention of reasonable speeds has been made, and some equate this to speed limits. As per my mentioned experience, this is absolutely not the case. Speed limits for a road do not change, but conditions do.

[true_sedan]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

No. It's basic. And it should be realized through ordinary common sense, let alone driving training (which I admit is often poor, and tests even poorer). If you think it takes so many km to learn this, I'm surprised you haven't had more accidents!

I agree that I might be a slow learner. But don't you think its a bit overboard to say something like "I'm surprised you haven't had more accidents." without knowing anything about me. If you can lets keep things objective.

All I've advocated with respect to this accident is for laws to be made stronger and policymakers be held accountable instead of just bashing the car drivers' common sense and be done with it. The very reason there are road rules is to keep things at the same level for everyone and negate the individual common sense factor which might vary from person to person. Getting into an argument with someone on road over common sense is a deep rabid hole with no scope for hitting the bottom.

To eliminate all the arbitrary factors involved in any accident I advocate only this - stronger rules, better enforcement & stringent license tests. So that next time we step out of the house we don't have to depend on the next drivers common sense to take us safe to our destination.

Cheers!

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by true_sedan

I agree that I might be a slow learner. But don't you think its a bit overboard to say something like "I'm surprised you haven't had more accidents." without knowing anything about me. If you can lets keep things objective.

Sorry: more than a bit cheeky! Spoken hastily. It was not really meant to be as personal as it came out. Apologies.

[funkykar]

For all taking one side or the other in the Jaguart incident:
In this case, a chain of events has caused this accident. There are several things at play.
1) Poorly lit highway. The captured video also, though clear needs a few replays to even understand what happened.
2) Helpful good samaritans who fling into action to help victims, many times rarely.
3) Pathetic onlookers, who just want to gather and see.
4) Police, who do not have a proper sense when it comes to these matters. Most sensible nations, block the highway/partially block it with the right signages and warnings to avoid further mishaps. These are the reasons exactly why they do that. I wonder if ever that will come to India. This part is not excusable at all. No sense, no common sense either.
5) Finally comes the Jaguar and his possible speed or DUI. There are many known stretches and times many of us break the speed limit(to whatever sane limits we responsibly feel), especially when it's a known stretch etc. Probably he did that too and realized it too late. He kind of ran into a trap created by our system. Of course, he is guilty, but more guilty and responsible and who will get away every time are the senseless people representing the system here, sorry to say.

If he was really overspeeding/DUI, if signages were kept he may have been able to slow down to stop or even crash at saner speeds. At least the commotion would have given the opportunity for onlookers to sway out of the way or fend for themselves.

How often do we hear about such rich kids driving insane after hours, DUI etc. Quite often right? It's so often that many experienced drivers use more caution when it's late at night even in known city junctions with close to 0 traffic. Often we see near misses of such cars/bikes. These days its so common that, it comes back to anticipation.

In 2010, en route Pune, right after kambhakti tunnel, in one of the curves, at around 1 am we saw a bad accident where a corolla was upside down and all people were flung over and appeared lifeless. IT had occurred just minutes before. Along with others, we stopped to see if we can help them in any way. We were rattled and quickly understood we cant help in any way and some people familiar with that region alerted cops and they, along with an ambulance came in no time. by then, half of the road was blocked, the edges of the remaining half filled with a lot more onlookers, some cars carelessly parked etc. I felt something was not right and just told my friends this looks like a dangerous setup and the perfect recipe for another accident. One loaded truck just took a turn, I causally told my friends to look, that truck itself may crash into this scene. Voila, the very next moment, the truck driver suddenly overwhelmed by the commotion, may be thought its a riot or robbery and soon after knew he can't stop in time and with great maneuvering skills brushed the ambulance and police jeep and barely missed the parked cars and people and squeezed through.

[asmr]

Dear TBHPians, I have been reading a lot of comments here about the highway being not properly illuminated with light posts and that being one of the reason for the accident.

When you folks talk about poorly lit highways, you are surely talking only about those sections within city limits with reduced speeds, yes? Or at the very least, just the flyovers (where the lanes might expand in from 4 to 6) and major junctions (which ideally shouldn't even be there on highways)?

Just to clarify, I can draw a line of differentiation between lighting and illumination, with reflective signs being the latter. I am not sure if this accident was within city limits or not, but lighting of the road shouldn't be a major reason for accidents especially if the road is a highway, maintained well and is meant for higher speeds.

I will happily stand corrected if I am in the wrong.

[Beta_Blocker]

Originally Posted by n33rav

For the speeding part, his speed doesn't seem more than 120kph which is not that high on a km long flyover and that car.

Looks like the SUV’s lights were on low beam as a flash of high beam can be seen just before the accident.

Anything above 50-60 kmph in low beam is just not safe imo

[Nalin1]

There is absolutely no doubt that the people on the road were even bigger idiots than the driver.
You stand on the road in pitch darkness on a high speed multi lane road exposed to extreme danger without any precautions whatsoever!. Crazy!.

Nothing new there. We Indians trust all our drivers around to save us wherever we are on the road.

But we roast the Jag driver being an automotive forum focusing more on what people behind the wheel can do to avoid accidents .

[Mustang Sammy]

There is no respect for rules, laws, regulations and even an iota of consideration for others.
Look at this in Pune, with school vans full of children going the wrong way.
2nd pic is of a wave of vehicles going through a red light, with the countdown timer at 15 seconds. What kind of hurry are people in?
Things are going from bad to worse. Unless there is a massive clampdown on violators of all types, I don’t see any hope.

[careind]

IMHO I dont understand people blaming the crowd. An Accident had happened for god's sake, and if there were no crowd and people had kept moving, then the comments on the same scenario would have been " See, the indifference and apathy!"

As in the case of any accident, some onlookers would have been interested in trying to see if they could be of assistance.
Others would have been plain curious to assess damage and it is just the nature of the beast. I would understand people bashing the crowd for being there if it were a political or any other rally, but for an accident - NO.
No one in the crowd , standing in a freshly minted accident site, would have been thinking about how they are standing on a patch of dark road and how they shouldnt be doing it.

With the reference scale of relative speed of the Biker and the speed of the Jag, it was a clear case of overspeeding from the Jag. No assumptions there I guess, unless we are generally into not believing our own eyes.

All said and done, in the case of any accident we cannot just squarely blame one particular party. The Jag driver would have probably passed a few such fly-overs earlier and this would have just been another one in his/her journey.
It was just a bad equation where all the variables just aligned themselves to create the accident - The negligence of police, absence of reflectors, people not on the sides, speed of oncoming vehicle, no lighting, no warning sirens from police, absence of prior vehicles with their brake lights on already at the site et.al. that could have easily changed the course.
An accident happened and an accident it is, without the advantage of hindsight and the associated wisdom it brings about.

Many in this thread are giving hindsight wisdom, and I assume that they had never been in a position where most of the variables had aligned to create an accident and they escaped it by a hair's breadth .
I had been there, and luckily came out with no damage, but for a few variables acting to my advantage.
Events like that gives us more clarity and helps start treating accidents like accidents and not adding too much in hindsight as everything cannot be executed perfectly and shit happens.

I would take the learnings from this accident and strive to become a better driver, rather than dissecting what oughtn't have happened or the advisories for what has already happened.