[true_sedan]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I hope it doesn't have to be said more times. If the road is poorly lit you drive slow.

I agree. But this is a rule learned through experience and not a rule of the law. Only an experienced person with many kilometers under the belt would know that. Very early on in my life, I met with a minor car accident and only then did I realize how unpredictable and terrible our Indian drivers are. I was fortunate enough to learn that day to expect the unexpected through a minor accident. Not everyone has that luxury just like this Jaguar driver. Expecting everyone to know every single jugaad to drive on our Indian roads is an impossibility.

It is easy to say that the driver could've done this that but without knowing the speed of the car, the speed limit of the highway, and the curvature of the road I feel it is not right to comment on this any further.

Even with my 1 lakh+ kilometers of experience on Indian roads, this happened to me today and could've ended in disaster. I was driving on a 6-lane highway with a speed limit of 100 kmph doing 60. When the rightmost lane opened up I accelerated and out of the blue, a two-wheeler from the left-most lane decided to jump into the rightmost lane. Just goes to show how easy it is to end up in an accident even in broad daylight. I saw the two-wheeler only when she was about to enter my lane. It happened that quickly. Reiterating the fact that this is a 100 kmph 6-lane highway.

https://youtu.be/asnIXUEQwOI

[TallBoy]

The Ahmedabad incident reminded me of the unfortunate accident on the Worli Sea Link. It is time traffic cops are sensitized to first putting in enough hazard lights or signs before doing anything else at accident sites.

Meanwhile, in Hyderabad, this is what happened last week https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...4.cms?from=mdr

[Senotrius]

I too agree not to pass judgement on the Jag driver so fast. 25% his fault for not expecting a crowd in a flyover, poor night vision and perception at 1am amd possibly doing high speeds. Atleast in my home state, its ALWAYS assumed to be the fault of the big car, leave it, fault of the 'car', in an accident even if otherwise. At most, like one of the members above stated, 50%-75% fault with police for not placing warnings/signs and cordoning off the area- this is common outside India. Nobody is pointing this out strongly. In my state as well they cordon off the area somehow with their bolero/jeep. In the main district atleast. They did not follow protocol. And its easy to write off getting beaten up by the mob as 'unfortunate ' lest oneself gets in that situation. Police was supposed to disperse the crowd, cordon the area/lane with warning signs/lights on vehicles. And majority of crowd are onlookers and not helpers who create safety hazards themselves especially by the time police arrive. We have to see both sides of the equation here.

[epiccross]

Originally Posted by true_sedan

Very early on in my life, I met with a minor car accident and only then did I realize how unpredictable and terrible our Indian drivers are. I was fortunate enough to learn that day to expect the unexpected through a minor accident. Not everyone has that luxury just like this Jaguar driver. Expecting everyone to know every single jugaad to drive on our Indian roads is an impossibility.

My dude, I'm on the same boat - I drove sedately, I was did everything by the book, and yet I got hit by a bus (and thankfully it helped me in minimizing the impact). I know Indian roads are unpredictable and chaos awaits at every turn. Precisely all the more reason to SLOW DOWN when visibility is low.

[deathwalkr]

Regarding the Jag accident, apparently the 19yr old does not have a license and his father is also being booked. As per news reports the father had to brandish some weapon to save his son from the mass of people.

Please drive slowly at night. I am a pretty heavy footed driver while soloing but come the dusk then it's 80 max on the highways not more.

Our reaction times slow down as the day dwindles down and the lack of visibility thanks to weak headlights, absence of mast lights on the highways really create a recipe for disaster when you consider on our highways anything can happen.

Cows, wrong siders, no tail light slow riders, no reflector parked vehicles on the left lane etc etc. Just way too many variables to factor in.

So best option, slow down. Save your life and others as well.

Really wish we find more sense whether we are drivers, passengers, pedestrians, it does not matter, just basic common sense would really help. Less said about lack of proper lights on highways the better! As for the cops, please secure the accident area first. Get the warning triangles on, switch on the hazards and get the public away from the scene.

[RMN]

People who are putting all the blame on the Jag better take more care of themselves while crossing a road!

It's a bit ignorant to expect any driver/vehicle to be 100% alert all the time. We are humans, we lose focus for split seconds, visibility isn't always the same and the variables are infinite.

The reason why the inverted triangle sign exists, and most cars come with it in the trunk is TO AVOID THIS EXACLTY!

The blame has to be on all parties here, yes, the Jag might have been over speeding but what the police and crowd did was equally dangerous/stupid. Isn't the first thing we all do in a highway accident make sure we all pull over/move to a safe spot?

This is sort of the same excuse people who drive/ride the wrong way or cross the road without looking say - if you werent speeding, you could have seen me!

[srvm]

My 2 cents regarding the Jaguar accident in Ahmedabad.

Yes, the car appears to be fast under the circumstances and definitely guilty of manslaughter. Often times, its not that all the lights along a flyover is unlit - which forces one to go at slower speeds as per many BHPians' suggestions.
Many a times, it is well-lit and you are doing perfectly acceptable speeds (within speed limits) and suddenly one comes across a section of the road/flyover where it is dark/unlit. Typically most drivers do not reduce speed here (and depend on their headlights instead) since the next lit section is visible and the vehicles behind may not anticipate your slowing down suddenly. This could be a possibility in the case of Jaguar (or even the car which rear-ended the truck to begin with).
I'm not condoning the Jag driver but merely stating a possibility of events.

What bothers me in this accident is this. The Jag driver may not have anticipated group of people on a unlit section of the flyover at 1am. But the folks standing on the unlit section of a flyover at 1am SHOULD HAVE anticipated some vehicle at even 70kmph (speed limit?) at this place. What were they thinking? Kuch nahi hoga mentality*? Can't they understand their vulnerability to accident given the conditions? Such unneccessary loss of lives

* Reminds me of the accident few years ago where many people standing on a railway track during a festival were crushed by a passing train. How can one empathize with folks who throw common sense into the bin?

[poised2drive]

Originally Posted by true_sedan

I agree. But this is a rule learned through experience and not a rule of the law. .....

Even with my 1 lakh+ kilometers of experience on Indian roads, this happened to me today and could've ended in disaster. I........I saw the two-wheeler only when she was about to enter my lane. It happened that quickly. Reiterating the fact that this is a 100 kmph 6-lane highway.

At the peril of sounding a Hairsplitter, I reckon you honked a couple of seconds late.

The lady on the wheels made her intent obvious at least at 28th second as she veered into the right lane ( which, I know, she is not supposed to do) & you seemed to have honked only at 33rd sec as you were crossing her.

I certainly think a loud/continuous honk from the fast-approaching car behind would have blown senses into her mind and she'd have backed off .

And I only state this due to the fact that I am a regular Highway Driver ( and most two wheelers stop to think about performing their antics when they hear a Honk & louder the honk, more responsive their action)

As you said, some rules are learned by experience and among them, one of the most important rules is to look out for the 2 Wheelers in our supposed path, especially on the Speed lane of the highway and Honk Them Away ( gently/aggressively as per the intuition) as you approach them.

It may sound like bullying them, but I think it is for the safety of both the parties.

[funkykar]

Originally Posted by true_sedan

Even with my 1 lakh+ kilometers of experience on Indian roads, this happened to me today and could've ended in disaster. I was driving on a 6-lane highway with a speed limit of 100 kmph doing 60. When the rightmost lane opened up I accelerated and out of the blue, a two-wheeler from the left-most lane decided to jump into the rightmost lane. Just goes to show how easy it is to end up in an accident even in broad daylight. I saw the two-wheeler only when she was about to enter my lane. It happened that quickly. Reiterating the fact that this is a 100 kmph 6-lane highway.

https://Youtu.be/asnIXUEQwOI

In the video you have posted, right from the beginning it's very clear that it is some 'busy' town section. 100kmph? I doubt if this section is 100kmph. Even if by error it is, defensive and anticipatory driving skills should kick in and drive at the right speed a driver can handle their vehicle. This is where the set speed limits etc should go down the drain. All along, I saw parked vehicles to the side, vendors selling something off the road, some buildings etc. Clearly says it sort of bustling place. 28-30 sec of the video also it felt like you were too fast to pass such a median. Lucky to not have some tvs50/m80 from the other side peek in to take a U turn. There would come surely some locals who despite seeing/hearing several accidents venture into the highway recklessly or they don't care or are simply unaware of the dangers or 'it's not going to happen to me'.

Please take this constructively, my intention wasn't to point at your driving at all. Just 2 cents from my 2-decade long driving on Indian highways spanning several lakh kms.

[epiccross]

Originally Posted by RMN

It's a bit ignorant to expect any driver/vehicle to be 100% alert all the time. We are humans, we lose focus for split seconds, visibility isn't always the same and the variables are infinite.

I absolutely agree, that is exactly why you should maximize your reaction window to mitigate any lapses from your part. Like slowing down considerably in fog/night, especially poorly lit roads, etc. That is entirely on the driver, and something they can control, surely?

PS: Not at all absolving people, especially the cops of blame. I'm sure this will be conveniently overlooked, how no warning triangles were placed and how the crowds were allowed to gather in the middle of the road. But that doesn't absolve the Jag driver at all IMO.

[TwinTurbo]

Originally Posted by epiccross

I'm sorry, isn't the speed limit on that road 70? Correct me if I'm wrong, but multiple sources are claiming so. If he has traveled at 120 (which I'm not sure of, but it doesn't look like he was coming at <70 anyway), doesn't it squarely make him responsible for speeding?

My point was all this aside, why would you go as fast when visibility is so low? You are NEVER allowed to run over pedestrians. The onus is on you to not do so. Why would you presume anything? We're not arguing about some pedestrian jumping from the median kind of scenario or defensive driving. It's common sense and absolutely important to stay within limits and slow down if visibility is not good to see what's ahead.

Isn’t it the responsibility of the crowd also to make themselves visible since they are gathered on a dark flyover at 1 am in the night, would you have blamed the car driver if it was a small car with poor headlights being driven at 70. And as can be seen in the video that the particular section does not have streetlights but the section before it has them and our eyes take time to adjust to sudden darkness

[GJ01]

Originally Posted by deathwalkr

Regarding the Jag accident, apparently the 19yr old does not have a license and his father is also being booked.

He got his license last year Feb. He was out on a joyride with 5 of his friends. They had been to a cafe, then the 6 of them went on a ride. 3 boys, 3 girls - all of them were college friends. The remaining 5 were also held by the police. The driver of the car was beaten up by the crowd, he was hospitalized

Originally Posted by true_sedan

To people saying the jaguar should’ve spotted people standing on the road have clearly never driven in pitch dark poorly lit highway.

A PCR Van was parked on the opposite side, lights flashing. Yes the lights on the flyover were off. But Flashing Police car lights should have been visible

Originally Posted by srvm

My 2 cents regarding the Jaguar accident in Ahmedabad.

Car speedo needle was stuck at 160, it seems. No way to verify this.

Originally Posted by Senotrius

I too agree not to pass judgement on the Jag driver so fast. 25% his fault for not expecting a crowd in a flyover, poor night vision and perception at 1am amd possibly doing high speeds. Atleast in my home state, its ALWAYS assumed to be the fault of the big car, leave it, fault of the 'car', in an accident even if otherwise.

Sure the kid is at fault. No second thoughts. But he will face a media trial for sure because:
The car was not his - it was his fathers business partners. He used to take it out for joyrides.
Hes 20 Yrs old - was out with 5 other friends. 3 Boys, 3 Girls. You start to get the picture
His dad is an accused in a rape case and multiple other cases are open against him
The person who owned the Jag, also has a cheating case against him.

Now you start to see the caricature that gets put forward. Arrogant, Brash, kid. Bad family values.

Originally Posted by nicodash

The primary fault lies with the people who approved and built an unsafe highway without enough lighting, with the people who were standing on a highway in the dark (were all of them busy helping the injured from the Thar accident?), and the policemen who played a role in this incident by not placing reflectors on the road and not getting the crowd dispersed from the spot.

I work in Gandhinagar and stay in Ahmedabad. I get back home at night around 10 -11. Observations from last night:
Miraculously, all street lights on all flyovers and the highways were on. Most of these used to be off till before yesterday
There was overzealous, active police patrolling. I saw Police jeeps with speed guns deployed on highways at 10 PM, never seen that before. They usually operate in the daytime. Am not even sure if they will be able to get a reading of the license plates in the night with everyone's headlights on
Everyone was driving within speed limits. I always encounter bigger cars and SUVs snaking their way at very high speeds on the highways. Yesterday everyone was sober.

[n33rav]

Originally Posted by Yieldway17

I'm sorry, speed limits are based on roads, not cars.

Every one of us has likely speeded in India but that doesn't absolve from any responsibility if you get in an accident.

I am not justifying driver's action nor I am argueing with you. I am telling on what I have observed, especially about that road. Based on that I am telling it is misfortune of the driver and the crowd.

My observations about that particular road:
High speed accidents on that road is not uncommon. It is like an expressway, no signals, no bumps, 6 lanes normally and 4 lane flyovers on each intersection. Don't know about the speed limit but usually cars are driven at 80-100 on that road, except during the office hours. At night it turns race track for car/bike enthusiasts. It is notorious for high speed driving and stunts at night.

Many accidents happens. We have news of at least one leathal accident a month. Nobody cares about single deaths, no outrage, no coverage. Just a tiny bite on newspapers without any followups. Don't want to talk about politics and corruption, as it is against rule of this forum, but that's the biggest factor.

It is because the death count is 9 this time, people are outraged and and media is properly covering it.

[helterskelter]

It’s an only an Indian driver who is supposed to have superhuman reflexes. We are supposed to watch out for pedestrians, people driving on the wrong side, people who are gathered on the main carriageway to just ogle at accidents and god forbid if the driver has a luxury car, he is anyways pronounced guilty before even looking at the evidence.
The police should stimulate the accident at the same time with the same conditions and if the accident still happens in the simulation, they should sue the bystanders for endangering the life of the car driver and compensate him.

[IshaanIan]

The Jag accident is as unfortunate as they come and there are many people one can blame but what about the state? Why was that stretch unlit? We are all taxed pretty heavily to register our cars to use on the roads and when I see nonsense like unlit sections of the road (when it is not as though the LED lights are out of order), or barricades left behind after DND checks it just boils my blood that nobody seeks justice against such malpractice by the state.