[neethi_raj]

With all this awareness of late, I think Indian cars are bound to be safer in the coming years. We cannot blame the manufactures solely for this situation. We as a country are responsible. The country needs to frame stricter laws. The citizens need to demand more safety. The manufacturers need to produce responsibly. It is our responsibility.

Originally Posted by sourabhzen

I will buy Swift ZXi as my next car as an upgrade to Alto K10 and liked to be branded as whatever anyone can think of.

Sourabhzen, I feel it is your prerogatory to choose your next car. Atleast you are taking an informed decision. All I personally wish is that the safety aspect should be highlighted, just as how the ARAI fuel efficiency is highlighted. It is then upto the customer to decide.

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Although it is appalling that some Maruti car owners here have chosen to support Maruti, and even question the integrity and neutrality of GNCAP, I seriously doubt that none among them would consider the Swift (or for that matter, any Maruti) as their next car.

I wouldn't be surprised if the mango men continue to buy Marutis in large numbers, but if Team BHPians continue to do so, I'd conclude that we as a community has failed in its purpose.

Not a fair statement really. People evaluate cars based on a number of factors and everyones needs and wants are different. People might chose Maruti for a number of reasons and to be honest, I've been using a Maruti Swift for over 4 years now, and have no real reason to complain. I love the car for its reliability, fuel efficency, pick up, etc...

However, while I admire Maruti for their customer service and have been a happy customer for the most bit, I do not like the fact that they have compromised the safety of the Indian consumer versus consumers in other geographies. I really want Maruti Suzuki to be cognizant of the fact that the Indian consumer is becoming more demanding and values his life along with the reliability of his ride.

We understand that safety comes at a price and I and many other Maruti Suzuki customers will be willing to pay more for a Maruti product if they are safer. Conversely, some of us might not be willing to risk the lives of our loved ones and our own in an unsafe vehicle. If we need to pay more and upgrade to a safer vehicle from the competition, so be it.

In spite of the stupid statements made by Maruti folks in the recent past, I am quite sure that they are aware of the changing needs of the Indian consumers and marketplace, and I hope its not very long before their Indian products are on par with their European products.

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by aseem

Try living in Bangalore. Average speed of 10 km per hour.

Accidents happen at instantaneous speeds, not average speeds brother! :-)

[anshuman_v]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Guys, any car without airbags will receive only a ZERO rating in the crash tests. Why are we so surprised here?

Not only Swift, even the Ciaz V variants will get zero ratings. Hyundai Elite i20, Xcent and Grand i10 base variants will get zero ratings, same with TATA Zest, Mahindra Scorpio or whatever!

High time we make a pledge to only buy or recommend a car with Airbags (and ABS) IMO.

I am joining this thread a little late, and I think this post really nails it. Whenever I go highway driving - I really cringe at the sight of hatches (Swifts, 800s, Altos, i 20s, etc. - all included) doing speeds of 100+. Inside these cars are families and many a times, small kids. I really hate to imagine what might happen in case something inappropriate happens. I was one of the people who have seen the Pune Mumbai expressway during its construction and initial days of opening. Every single day, there were at least 3-4 fatal accidents on the expressway. Majority of these were self inflicted, related to loss of control, and for smaller cars - people would go berserk trying to hit high speeds.

So the point I am making is this:
- The manufacturers are definitely at fault. But beyond cost cutting, they would say that 'hatches' are meant only for city driving and hence low speeds. That is what the chairman of Maruti seems to be arguing when he says 'Swift is safer than a two weeler' in his quote earlier this thread.
- It is for us as consumers to make sure we understand the limitations of the cars and features. By all means take our hatch to the highway, but for god's sake keep the speed limit under control.


I agree with suggestions made in this thread: let the safety rating be mandatorily displayed on all cars at the time of sale, and let us adopt the European standards. After all, our roads are becoming faster/safer akin to Europe! And yes, to the manufacturer's point - maybe the government could also reduce the amazing amount of taxes and duties as well, to help reduce the final cost to us, the customer?

[GrayBerry]

Sad to see Maruti (leading in the number of cars sold) cheating us.
Swift Z brakes are better than Swift V/L brakes, which is sad. All these cars pretty much weight the same, in this case how can manufacture decide on inferior brakes of one and decent one for the other.
As an Indian I feel cheated to know that Indian Swift is of poor standards. I will never buy a Maruti or even suggest one for any one.

[kiran_cr]

ALAS, GOI has finally made Frontal Crash Test Mandatory from OCT 2015. Related areticle can be seen in the link below.

http://auto.ndtv.com/news/new-cars-i...from=home-auto

However SIAM is trying to make a mockery of the test by suggesting that the test be done at 24KMPH? Is it a joke?

[sourabhzen]

Originally Posted by neethi_raj

Sourabhzen, I feel it is your prerogatory to choose your next car. Atleast you are taking an informed decision. All I personally wish is that the safety aspect should be highlighted, just as how the ARAI fuel efficiency is highlighted. It is then upto the customer to decide.

I completely agree. But safety aspect will be highlighted only when government make it mandatory to do so. At present how many INDIAN manufacturers are mentioning this in their brochure? Also, the thread seems to be enjoying Maruti bashing when it never claimed that their cars have any safety rating.

People in this thread are behaving as if they thought of Marutis cars as strong as tanks before NCAP reports were out. All of us here knew of what are the qualities and limitations of Maruti before buying them. most of them may also have never traveled in an Autos or cycle rickshaws or bikes as they are death traps in themselves.

It is the government that never bothered about people's lives earlier and never made these safety features as mandatory. Instead they are out to allow e-rickshaws on Delhi roads and 'jugads' in UP and other parts of North India. I wonder what will be the safety requirements for them.

[civic-sense]

Originally Posted by sourabhzen

People in this thread are behaving as if they thought of Marutis cars as strong as tanks before NCAP reports were out. All of us here knew of what are the qualities and limitations of Maruti before buying them. most of them may also have never traveled in an Autos or cycle rickshaws or bikes as they are death traps in themselves.

Go through the numerous safety related threads that has happened in the past, and you can see Maruti fans emphatically quoting ENCAP results to support their claim that the Swift is as safe as Polo/Figo/Punto. It is that claim that has been rendered hollow after the current crash test.

Polo, Figo and almost all the other premium hatches are priced similar to the Swift. Polo Highline is a few thousands more expensive, but you get much more kit with it. The Figo Titanium is cheaper by a lakh rupees, without compromising on structural rigidity. So the argument that Maruti made the Swift structurally unstable, so that the mango men can have access to motoring, is pure crap.

I don't understand why the Maruti car owners are not questioning the manufacturer for shortchanging them but instead are blaming Maruti bashers in this thread. In my opinion, Maruti needs to be bashed severely, and Maruti car owners should join the bashers than trying to justify their buying decisions. Harm has been done to you, so you need to open your eyes and demand justice.

[VeluM]

Originally Posted by kiran_cr

ALAS, GOI has finally made Frontal Crash Test Mandatory from OCT 2015.

Why alas? This is good news. Just a little late though, but I think (positive thinking) that car manufacturers will start beefing up their offerings in anticipation.

Originally Posted by kiran_cr

However SIAM is trying to make a mockery of the test by suggesting that the test be done at 24KMPH? Is it a joke?

Car manufacturers are in it for the money. They probably think that their current range of cars would meet those crash tests without any structural modification. They're probably right too, I think I'd survive a bike crash at that speed. Anyway, I think the government is serious about adopting norms in line with international safety requirements. They're making all the right noises, so let's wait and see.

[RSR]

My apologies if this has already been posted in another thread, but I think it's relevant to this thread as well.

Latin NCAP has also released the results for the Chevrolet Spark (not Beat) without airbags. It failed the test by scoring 0* just as expected. Worryingly, the structure was also rated as unstable after the 64 kmph impact:

http://youtu.be/BaWt0UCzbQs

The full report:

http://www.latinncap.com/data/pdf/ch...airbags_en.pdf

This particular Spark may not have been made in India, but is relevant to us nevertheless, because airbags are not available now on the Indian Spark, even as an option. To be frank, I believe the Indian Spark would perform just as poorly as the Latin American Spark on an NCAP test.

This car (equipped with airbags) was also known as Chevrolet Matiz and was on sale in the European market earlier. It didn't do too well either, as it only managed to get a 3-star strike through rating (2005) on the Euro-NCAP.

[enthu]

FACTS:
(1) For last several years car prices have remained (almost) unaltered. (change by 10-20%..which is nothing compared to cost of production.. labour charges/salaries of engineers/steel price/land price/raw materials/computerization etc..of course some tax benefits are given to manufacturers but how much?)
(2) Indians go by price tag (Since this is true ... point no. 1 is also true...)
(3) Everyone wants fuel efficient car..more mileage (Hence emphasis more on engines and not on safety)..(Hence emphasis more on weight of car than safety)
In this scenario quality is compromised..Day-by-day.. metal sheet will become thiner by 0.01 mm?? and chasis will become lightweight?
All this leads to SAFETY which Indians always try to ignore..because of price tag (see number of people purchasing base variant becuase it is cheap... without air bags, abs etc.)..HARSH TRUTH...

[sourabhzen]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Go through the numerous safety related threads that has happened in the past, and you can see Maruti fans emphatically quoting ENCAP results to support their claim that the Swift is as safe as Polo/Figo/Punto. It is that claim that has been rendered hollow after the current crash test.

Polo, Figo and almost all the other premium hatches are priced similar to the Swift. Polo Highline is a few thousands more expensive, but you get much more kit with it. The Figo Titanium is cheaper by a lakh rupees, without compromising on structural rigidity. So the argument that Maruti made the Swift structurally unstable, so that the mango men can have access to motoring, is pure crap.

I don't understand why the Maruti car owners are not questioning the manufacturer for shortchanging them but instead are blaming Maruti bashers in this thread. In my opinion, Maruti needs to be bashed severely, and Maruti car owners should join the bashers than trying to justify their buying decisions. Harm has been done to you, so you need to open your eyes and demand justice.

I think any buyer who buys a Maruti thinking that it is a safer car than Polo or Punto is an idiot or have absolutely no interest in safety (leaving out Figo here as Figo without airbags had similar ratings).

Maruti made Swift with and without airbags but 'Mango men' like me bought a swift without airbags as they could not afford buying a higher version.

I will keep justifying my decision as I knew what was I buying and was fully aware of its safety capability. Some people can not put themselves in our shoes and will not be able to comprehend the thought process while buying a car. My eyes were open and I do not think Maruti cheated me. The bashers think of themselves as elite class and they can continue to do bashing without understanding the reality.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by anshuman_v

So the point I am making is this:
- The manufacturers are definitely at fault. But beyond cost cutting, they would say that 'hatches' are meant only for city driving and hence low speeds. That is what the chairman of Maruti seems to be arguing when he says 'Swift is safer than a two weeler' in his quote earlier this thread.
- It is for us as consumers to make sure we understand the limitations of the cars and features. By all means take our hatch to the highway, but for god's sake keep the speed limit under control.

There is no basis whatsoever for claiming that hatchbacks are city-only cars. Internationally, they are all-road cars, and since the VW Golf-GTI, decades ago, some of them have been high performance too.

Even if they were city cars, which they are not, does anybody imagine that city speeds are 5kmph? If that's true, we might as well walk.

All the city-only, city-speeds-only, etc etc etc, arguments, whether they are about Maruti, or about not wearing seat belts in a Merc, are unrelated to facts, devoid of logic, and, whether they come from drivers or manufacturers, just so much hot air. Look: how many people, including pedestrians, die in city road accidents?

Originally Posted by sourabhzen

People in this thread are behaving as if they thought of Marutis cars as strong as tanks before NCAP reports were out. All of us here knew of what are the qualities and limitations of Maruti before buying them. most of them may also have never traveled in an Autos or cycle rickshaws or bikes as they are death traps in themselves.

Not the case.

Maruti/Suzuki Swift: a bargain car worldwide, but also an award winner, a rally winner etc etc. Maruti don't exactly shout that that is not the car that we are getting here.

On top of that, in so far as anyone at all is safety-aware (and I sometimes wonder if many drivers, especially bikers, have ever even heard the word) they do know what it is like on the street and they do expect their chosen tin box, with or without what they may see as extras to protect them. We, the buyers, expect cost cutting here, but I believe that we expect it to be in the form of lower equipment. We don't expect leather seats or climate control as standard --- but we do expect that the box around us will be as good as it would be if we bought it in another country. Actually, for those oft-mentioned Indian conditions... it should be better!

I didn't think that that was too much too expect when I bought a Swift. Sadly, it seems that it was, and will probably continue to be.

Maruti bashing? Maybe, but all the other manufacturers had better take careful note, because it is all about them too.

[civic-sense]

Originally Posted by sourabhzen

I think any buyer who buys a Maruti thinking that it is a safer car than Polo or Punto is an idiot or have absolutely no interest in safety (leaving out Figo here as Figo without airbags had similar ratings).

Figo's structure was intact, and a version with airbags was never tested. So Figo is cheaper than Maruti, still safer.

Maruti made Swift with and without airbags but 'Mango men' like me bought a swift without airbags as they could not afford buying a higher version.

A Polo/Figo without airbags would have been safer than the Swift without aribags since the structure of the former is not compromised.

I will keep justifying my decision as I knew what was I buying and was fully aware of its safety capability.

Does that mean that you were somehow privy to Maruti's decision to make the Swift's structure unsafe, and yet decided to buy it?

Some people can not put themselves in our shoes and will not be able to comprehend the thought process while buying a car.

In fact the only thought process most mango men do is look for the "M" badge.

My eyes were open and I do not think Maruti cheated me.

Yes they did, they charged you the same money for a compromised car.

The bashers think of themselves as elite class and they can continue to do bashing without understanding the reality.

There is nothing elitist in safety. The not-so-elite (which incidentally I am) too, has every right to consider his life precious.

[Chetan_Rao]

Sad to see this discussion descending into an Us Vs. Them 'elitism' debate. Now I'm far from a rich guy: I still own an 8-year old non-ABS, non-Airbags Hyundai sedan which I'm reluctant to let go both because I love it and I can't afford a replacement I'll find satisfactory to my requirements without taking a loan (and yes SAFETY is point#1 on my list).

That being said, I'd still not buy a Maruti when the time comes because I think they've been conning the gullible Indian customer with sentimentality and goodwill while compromising on even primary build standards/quality, and I don't need some test results to tell me that. A company that intentionally plonks inadequate brakes into their best-selling car, even with previous history of the same concern in the previous-gen model, shows they're a company that believes the gullible mango-man will buy them just out of past goodwill and herd mentality.


P.S. Before the pitch-forks come out, my family has a history of owning Maruti Suzuki cars over a decade-and-a-half between the early 90s to the late-2000s, so I've been on both sides of the fence and speaking from experience.