[shancz]

Originally Posted by svsantosh

We are about 3-5 years from a Successful commercial ADAS on a motorbike.

I don't think so, motorcyles cannot stay upright without human intervention and AEB just cannot cover the scenarios that have to be considered pre and post an emergency braking on a motorcycle.
For academic purposes it would be hilarious to watch though including those 300 bikes at Silk Board

I am not discounting some place/manufacturer attempting it but I am concerned with our traffic situation only, hence can conclude a No.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by shancz

This is what I expect to happen across the board but the Honda Sensing at least on Elevate doesn't.
Here's an excerpt from page 17 of the user-manual.
Source : TeamBHP : Honda Elevate Review (Honda Elevate Review)



Hence my favorite model to buy for the City is the SV(base, without Honda Sensing) and swap out the stock steel wheels and tyres to cool alloys with wider rubber.
Thank You Honda for such a VFM model and Honda Sensing to make me look at the base model in a different light

The Verna also can be driven by keeping AEB off permanently. I believe on the Tucson, however, you have to go through a ADAS checklist every time you start the car if you wish to selectively disengage the features.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

The Verna also can be driven by keeping AEB off permanently.

My concern is that as this is being pushed out as a safety measure, being rated by NCAPs so the chances of awarding points to "on by default" and "on at every restart" and removing quick action buttons to disable(like Honda) are very high.
This will be especially true for cars which are built for a global audience. I expect Hyundai to remain sane given their experience in our situation but I am not very hopeful for global brands like Honda has already shown.

ADAS is being touted as the new "craze" and I agree, quite literally.

Originally Posted by greyhound82

decision/control algorithms are still rule-based and this inherently creates errors because driving involves hierarchical planning.

While the technologies and approaches are beyond my understanding as of now but the decision making part is the primary reason for my concern. Even in the related video the issue was with the decision making and not detection.

Decision making will have some assumptions, buffers, tolerance values and rules which in our case are either too small or unpredictable/random. That's where the issue lies and I don't see any improvements unless the ground situation changes.
For example to smoothen our traffic flow we need the traffic to move with a minimum speed. That's a pre-requisite without which the objective cannot be met.

We have honour the level of thought and calculations that a driver has to do on our roads to remain free of conflict.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by shancz

My concern is that as this is being pushed out as a safety measure, being rated by NCAPs so the chances of awarding points to "on by default" and "on at every restart" and removing quick action buttons to disable(like Honda) are very high.
This will be especially true for cars which are built for a global audience. I expect Hyundai to remain sane given their experience in our situation but I am not very hopeful for global brands like Honda has already shown.

ADAS is being touted as the new "craze" and I agree, quite literally.


While the technologies and approaches are beyond my understanding as of now but the decision making part is the primary reason for my concern. Even in the related video the issue was with the decision making and not detection.

Decision making will have some assumptions, buffers, tolerance values and rules which in our case are either too small or unpredictable/random. That's where the issue lies and I don't see any improvements unless the ground situation changes.
For example to smoothen our traffic flow we need the traffic to move with a minimum speed. That's a pre-requisite without which the objective cannot be met.

We have honour the level of thought and calculations that a driver has to do on our roads to remain free of conflict.

Agreed. Roads are not "airways" where flying and navigation are automated as routine. Even in aviation, some airlines prefer to have a "hands on" protocol for critical phases of flight, such as flying below 10000 feet. SouthWest Airlines has bespoke B737 cockpits with "de-emphasis" on automation as much as possible.

[Vasuki]

Originally Posted by shancz

I don't think so, motorcyles cannot stay upright without human intervention and AEB just cannot cover the scenarios that have to be considered pre and post an emergency braking on a motorcycle.
For academic purposes it would be hilarious to watch though including those 300 bikes at Silk Board

I am not discounting some place/manufacturer attempting it but I am concerned with our traffic situation only, hence can conclude a No.

Not quite.

Some functions of ADAS is already present in the Ducati Multistrada V4S like Adaptive cruise control, which brakes & accelerates depending upon the cruising speed of the vehicle ahead.

I believe they introduced the same 2 years back. Also, the latest iteration of the BMW 1300 GS has it.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Vasuki

Not quite.

I was aiming for the AEB which brings to very low speeds or a full stop

[outdoorlover]

Originally Posted by shancz

I don't think so, motorcyles cannot stay upright without human intervention and AEB just cannot cover the scenarios that have to be considered pre and post an emergency braking on a motorcycle.
For academic purposes it would be hilarious to watch though including those 300 bikes at Silk Board

Hi, ADAS for bikes is a reality already and quite a few manufacturers have it in their bikes including integrating the suspension to braking etc for different kind of scenarios. I donot think we can stay away from ADAS as much as it goes through it's initial period of suspicion/ curiosity in India. This is a technology here to stay, and will become all pervasive in a few years despite the initial resistance it receives like all technological disruptors.

[outdoorlover]

Sharing a comprehensive report on ADAS as applicable on all classes of vehicles, prepared by CRISIL which may be of interest to members here.

[narayanang76]

Sharing a latest accident experience of someone I know. He was driving Mahindra XUV 700 having ADAS feature and was on his way to attend a function in Trichy, travelling from Chennai, TN. With him in the car he had his family, including In-laws. On the Trichy Highway (near Villupuram I believe) a cow suddenly crossed the median and jumped in front of the car with no room for any maneuvers. Car obviously hit the cow and has front end damages. However the key highlights from the accident are:

1. All occupants are safe and sound without any injuries
2. ADAS was on, in his XUV700
3. ADAS triggered the emergency braking
4. Airbags were deployed
5. ADAS also did the emergency calling ambulance and ambulance arrived in 5 minutes

This is a real assurance to me about relevance of ADAS feature in XUV700, even for such accidents involved in hitting animals on highways. In this case he couldn't avoid the collision even with ADAS, however it has worked in the limited ways that it could, in my view.

Sharing a pic from accident.

Cheers,
narayanang76

[jomyboy]

There will come a day when ADAS triggers an emergency braking and a big lorry/truck with an inattentive driver is just gonna smash through. I always have anxiety when I have a lorry/bus behind me on the highways.

[argchoff]

As a person who prefers to be in control of his machine more than the machine being in control on the driver's behalf, i am totally against the idea of ADAS.

Apart from the possibility of misuse, as reported on another thread on team bhp, i hate the fact that a lifeless computer telling me when to change lanes, etc. During my test drive of the xuv700 i had to turn off the ADAS to be in control of the car.

[vijaykr]

Originally Posted by jomyboy

There will come a day when ADAS triggers an emergency braking and a big lorry/truck with an inattentive driver is just gonna smash through. I always have anxiety when I have a lorry/bus behind me on the highways.

But isn't the main reason ADAS triggers emergency braking is that there is delay or no action by a human driver in reacting to an imminent collision (not getting into technicalities of how ADAS systems come to this conclusion)? Assuming there is a car slowing/stopping or an obstacle in front of the car equipped with ADAS, what should ADAS do instead? Based on its own logic of distance to car in front or obstacle, current car speed and whether human driver has applied (or starting to apply) brakes, why would we not want aid to ensure we don't run into the car/obstacle in front?

If the driver has applied brakes, then ADAS is only a support mechanism as driver is aware of situation and taking appropriate precautions already.

The issue of drivers tailgating on highways is a menace and don't know what a fool-proof solution for this is. Wherever possible and practical to do without any issue, I move to another lane and give away to the folks in a hurry. If that is difficult and I see someone too close behind continuously, I quickly press the brakes once so the person sees the car's brake lights and if inattentive, becomes aware to ease off a bit and increase distance.

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by vijaykr

But isn't the main reason ADAS triggers emergency braking is that there is delay or no action by a human driver in reacting to an imminent collision .

You are absolutely right. I have hardly ever seen ADAS activate on my vehicle in the past year of driving. In fact, even when testing, I can never get it to activate. Why? The reason is that I always keep a safe driving distance. I slow down and brake much before ADAS would kick in. It only kicks in due to dangerous tailgating that is common in Indian drivers. Personally, I would like ADAS to issue warnings much earlier and even kick in to at least slow down the vehicle much earlier. I feel that it leaves it much too late as programmed on Indian vehicles. In addition, ADAS, at least on my MG, doesn't activate when the driver is providing an input or quits instantly once the driver does so. So if I hear the sound of emergency braking (a harsh grrr sound) or feel the vehicle slowing a bit, all I have to is tap the accelerator and it quits. Hence my vehicle doesn't even slow down much for the very rare time it kicks in. Similarly, if I am already braking, it won't kick in at all.

[jomyboy]

Originally Posted by vijaykr

But isn't the main reason ADAS triggers emergency braking is that there is delay or no action by a human driver in reacting to an imminent collision (not getting into technicalities of how ADAS systems come to this conclusion)?.

I'm sure ADAS will work just the way it is intended to many a time. I am just wondering what if I am driving at 120 km/hr on the highway with a big bus/lorry behind me at equal speed and suddenly we have a wild animal who jumps in front of the car. I would never want my car to suddenly jam on the brakes without my input. Maybe I am must overthinking too much, probably they must have perfected ADAS to what can be run over and what not

[harikr]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

The reason is that I always keep a safe driving distance. I slow down and brake much before ADAS would kick in. It only kicks in due to dangerous tailgating that is common in Indian drivers.

Agree with you. I thought that I was a safe driver before. With the new Verna, in initial days, it gave me collusion warning many times. Then I realised I am tailgating a lot. I increased the gap with the front vehicle by few cms and since then I have never had a single occasion of AEB kicking in. So it helps us to be little more disciplined. In cases where animals or pedestrians jump in front of the car, anyway we are going to hit and definitely a computer can trigger emergency braking before a human reacts and help in reducing some impact. In other cases, leave sufficient gap with vehicle in front, you will be safe. But us being Indians, do not leave too much gap, or someone else will end up occupying that gap

Adding to that, being someone who has some inside info on the ADAS developments, current ADAS level in India is not the end target. Only when V2V (Vehicle to Vehicle), V2P (Vehicle to pedestrian) etc comes in all the vehicles, it will be really useful and adds to safety. Until then, consider it as a what it is, an assistance. Never leave the vehicle in its own control as some morons are doing with these cars (from videos appearing in YouTube)

Hari