[abtyagi]

Originally Posted by pavi

I still don't have a 'trust' in these ADAS systems, be it of any manufacturer. For me it feels like two drivers driving the same car at the same time, with both having complete control of the car at all time.

The big question here is, "what explanation was given to the driver of the car who hit you from behind"? "I did not do it Raju (3 idiots fame dialogue)". No hard feelings please, just a casual ask.

Agree on `two driver` parts, and ADAS do have a `sudo` or super user-like mode. Steering and lane assist is just too intrusive in our condition, and have caused uncomfortable situation when you navigate through the slow-moving trucks occupying all 3 lanes on expressways.
Well, the other driver was driving close and was absentminded as well. So he was apologetic. We did not mention the ADAS part to him.

Originally Posted by umairalvi

That's unfortunate, man! IMO, it is best to keep ADAS completely switched off, especially in the city.

It is simply not possible to perfect ADAS in a chaotic scenario like ours. I wonder how confused the computers must get with all the complex algrotihms. It is definitely the toughest of the tests they will ever be subjected to.

You're right, we have been contemplating switching it off. The issue is ADAS will auto-activate upon car restart. So every time car is started you will have to disable it.
So far the worst part is, we are unable to predict the behaviour. We tried simulating a similar situation on empty roads of IMT Manesar. including a pedestrian crossing, nope, did not activate. Among all the possible scenarios which will, it can use to force stop is still not clear. We have driven the car 5000kms so far.

Originally Posted by GTO

Thanks for sharing, abtyagi!

This deserves its own discussion because ADAS is best for developed countries with "ideal" driving conditions. Whenever I sit in a high-end car, I usually switch off all driver assistance systems first. Problem with many brands (including Mercedes) is that, they automatically re-activate after restarting the car.

Spent a few days with the EQS and in one of the drives, I missed switching off the driver assistance system. At the Bandra-Mahim Causeway signal, the car suddenly slammed on the brakes, leaving all of us in shock . We were 5 onboard and all were buckled up tight, so no injury. Now, a couple of feet away was a pedestrian and (on another side of the car) an autorickshaw.

Post this incident, before I could even start the car, my family told me "switch off the driver assistance systems". This was literally the first thing they were telling me upon sitting in the car!

Thank you. I hope others can learn from the incident.
Tuscon also reactivates it upon restart. you'll just have to miss once to disable it. it would have been better if you could disable it permanently or make it a warning only.
In the case of a pedestrian, it slams the break so hard that I wonder if even a human will be able to apply the brake that hard with ABS. It's like hitting concrete.

Originally Posted by PreludeSH

This is scary. It would be even more dangerous on highways if the vehicle following you hadn't kept a bigger gap with higher speeds


Takes the fun away if you have to remember to turn the features off now and then.

That is actually the scary part. ADAS will save from the vehicle in front but most likely not from the trailing one.

Originally Posted by Samurai

Time for a new kind of warning board on the back of these cars?

Attachment 2375199

Thank you. good idea.

Originally Posted by ashivas89

Ouch! Reallty feel for the OP. Hope the car gets fixed like new soon!

This is precisely why it makes absolutely no sense to shell out the extra dough for these features.

Apart from bragging rights via tacky badges one gets nothing in return for the outlay. Nothing of tangible value, that is.

Save the money, get that AT/better engine/ AWD instead with a lower variant.

No sir, it wasn't for bragging right, The car comes with this feature. This is a Diesel, AWD. Tuscon as a package at 40odd Lakh OTR is hard to beat. The engine + gearbox combo is just so good, that it deserves a thread of its own. Everything in the car is so well put together, the quality of the materials, aesthetics, rear seat comfort, name it and it excels.

Originally Posted by psispace

At first, my sympathies for your ordeal with your brand new car. It was heartbreaking when I had a small scratch on my car in the first month, so I can't even imagine what you must be going through. I hope you get your parts soon and can enjoy driving her more. I was seriously eyeing this car because of her level 2 ADAS tech. The AWD only being available in diesel and not getting even a test drive till now are what kept me away.

I would like to put my thoughts on ADAS in India and would be going against the trend in this thread here.

I have been driving an ADAS enabled car for the past decade. It was only in the initial stages that I used to get these minor frights.

I used to be a partially aggressive driver before I got my car. After some time, I started driving in a way as to not trigger the ADAS systems. I effectively became a more cautious driver. I kept a safe distance from the car ahead, stopped late braking and always indicated lane changes. No abrupt accelerations from behind another vehicle for overtaking unless absolutely necessary. I found even this can trigger the collision alert and braking.

It just requires a change in our driving style a bit. Some cars' ADAS systems are well tuned for Indian conditions. Others are not. Although my car was a CBU (Euro spec), I found it coping quite well once I started driving sedately. There are settings in most of these cars were you can adjust the distance to the vehicle in front at which the alarm and brake triggers. I have set it at the closest. I believe the Tucson and other cars also have this setting.

I know its' a little more challenging in urban conditions due to how closely we are followed by vehicles in the rear. Not to mention random bikers and pedestrians who will cut across in front of us. These systems usually don't function at crawling speeds (they don't function in mine), so it makes sense to go it really slow in heavy traffic. Even I was rear ended by bikers and one car during the first few months. Fortunately there was no serious damage like this. Just minor scratches which were easily buffed away at the next water service.

But if you are an enthusiast driver ( wrong terminology, even I am an enthusiast driver ), lets' say 'fast' driver, then its' best to switch of these systems. In this case, it doesn't make sense to buy these cars anyway.

Another problem is that with earlier cars, the ADAS used to function to its' full potential only upto 30 to 40 kmph(as in mine). Newer models are capable at bringing the car to a complete halt without colliding at even higher speeds. This increases the chances of such incidents.



I found it to be quite the opposite. In Kerala where I reside, highways exist only by name and I have rarely used ACC when inside the state. I use it only occasionally to give rest to my right foot for some time, that too only with
less traffic (which is rare here).

I feel more cars with ADAS will make our roads safer. It is we who need to change our driving styles.

I was waiting for the day when these features would be available in the mass market. Even our present generation of Polo had ADAS as option in Europe on its top models. But the VW group, up to date, has not offered it here in any of their models. Nor have any other manufacturer, except for their top end models.

It has been a long wait. I never expected an Indian manufacturer to set the ball rolling. For this, I should congratulate Anand Mahindra and his team for being able to introduce this tech to the masses. He has set the ball rolling. The phrase; "but it doesn't have ADAS", has started creeping into automobile reviews as more and more vehicles have started getting equipped with it, in one level or the other.

Seatbelts, ABS, airbags etc. were not accepted earlier as a must have safety feature in the past. Remember the tag line " I die like a man, I don't wear seatbelts. I'll just brace myself against the steering wheel " ? In this day and age, you wouldn't be caught dead (forgive the pun) buying a new car without these features.

ADAS technology is here to stay and I am happy to say has already started invading our shores. Once the technology becomes more mainstay, it will only be a matter of time that these features become mandatory.

I would request everyone to not discourage the OP that he made a big mistake with this purchase just because of this unfortunate incident.

Thank you for summarizing so eloquently, And not discouraged at all, love the car and totally gaga over it. these are minor scuffles.

Originally Posted by jkrishnakj

I am not even comfortable using the Lane assist function in my A6. I’ve had scary moments when I had accidentally flicked it on in a couple of highway drives. No ways will I ever be comfortable using a feature like ADAS in Indian roads.

Exactly, it feels really nice when it turns as per lane, but if navigating to overtake a slow truck or trucks in all the lanes, it is scary the way it will pull back the steering.

Originally Posted by ajayc123

While Mr Tyagi will get this repaired, and other folks will probably switch it off, I am wondering if Hyundai is taking any accountability for this incident and / or their ADAS that appears to be unsuited for Indian conditions Or are they looking the other way and washing their hands off this one. Should they be accountable?

My guess is, They won't be. The car is yet to go to the workshop, due to work commitments. I shall update on their response here. also, it has to be switched off every time you start the car.

Originally Posted by Hayek

I think the problem arises because too many of us drive too close to other vehicles. The fact is simple - if you ram someone from behind, it is your fault 100% of the time. If someone rams you from behind, it is his fault. .

Probably a new fact will have to be evolved, whose ADAS caused it.

[pavi]

Can someone with legal background let us know how an accident caused by ADAS is treated now. That is in case if ADAS with all those algorithms cause an accident which a driver might have avoided as there are some 'business as usual' things that happens on our roads.

Note: there can never be a bug free software. ADAS would be good, if all the cars have the same installed. Still it also depends on special scenario production 'bugs'. Also suggestions like 'one needs to be aware of ADAS in their cars' totally beats the purpose. For me, all these active/passive safety systems should not be intrusive, and one should not be aware (better term now is 'beware') of the (lack of) predictability of such systems.

[Tanmay007]

Originally Posted by Chhanda Das

On a serious note, the ADAS system needs its proximity sensors to be tweaked for super close proximity driving in congested Indian conditions. The calibration of those sensors as per the standards of more developed countries simply would not work in India.

Assuming you are referring to AEB here, the system does not decide on proximity data alone but rather it continuously keeps calculating TTC (time to collision). When the system thinks a collision is possible it warns with audible warning. When it thinks a collision is imminent it will apply brakes.

If you tweak how much braking happens in relation to TTC, you'll directly affect the effectiveness of AEB.

AEB is actually meant to protect in scenarios where your attention might get diverted, imagine you are driving and for a split second you get a text/call and glance over at the phone, and just at that moment a pedestrian/cat/dog appears or car ahead suddenly brakes. Such scenarios is where you'd expect the car to apply 100% brakes and save a life. No matter how seasoned or disciplined driver you are, getting distracted will happen every once a while for a variety of reasons.

I'm sure most would happily accept the risk of getting rear ended if it saves you from hitting someone else.

[chandu]

I have been driving a car with ADAS for the past 5 years and have had some really scary encounters with the auto emergency brakes.

I have kind of figured out what it does and learnt how to drive such that it does not activate so easily, in spite of this, I get an activation once in a couple of months. It has never happened in the highways till now, it mostly happens in city roads where I am driving at 40kmph or higher, although it has happened a couple of times in stop and go traffic. I have had a 2W hit me from the back in very slow traffic when it activated, but, I was lucky to not have any damage, just a few scratches.

I give a fair amount of space between me and the car ahead, I am especially careful of 2W traffic because they move around so much. Also during turns you can have situations where the opposite traffic can be coming at you directly for a very short period, this is especially problematic. I have learnt to avoid these situations and have not had such activation's in the past few years.

In my car, ADAS features cannot be turned off at all. This is not an option. If it was, i would happily disable it for city stop and go traffic. Basically, you have to figure out what will cause an activation and drive such that you can avoid these situations.

Thats my 2 cents....
cheers

[mayankshekharr]

I wish ADAS had a feature to detect and alert the driver of incoming speed breaker. The speed breakers in our country hardly have zebra crossing marks. This further becomes extremely dangerous during situations like rain. I think our innovative companies can come up with a solution for this.

Also this can be paired with a navigation system to make the system available for cars not having ADAS feature to create an ecosystem of alerts.

[kush812]

In terms of ADAS, I think my Honda City Hybrid's passive camera-based system works well enough even in the city as till now in 2000 kms of driving, the car has not braked harshly more than a couple of times and at those times bikers were coming in from wrong side of the road.
The system however gives an alert before slamming on the brakes which gives me time to dab the brake pedal a little and avoid any harsh braking by the system subsequently reducing the chances of damage due to tail-ending.
But the system has made me a better driver has I have started keeping my distance from the vehicle in the front.

[RGK]

These types of rear-end collisions can be avoided if all automobiles have ADAS technology.

It would be preferable to switch off this feature right now and drive in India.

It can be difficult at times to explain this trait to drivers who collide from behind.

[Guite]

Our traffic conditions are not going to improve any time soon. In fact it will get worse because more vehicles are going to get added on our roads than the rate at which road widening or improvements are going to happen. Even at normal city traffic speed, say 40-50 kmph, bikes and cars change lane and cut suddenly in front of you. In those scenario I bet ADAS will brake abruptly.

Another scenario is overtaking at very close distance. This is unavoidable in some Delhi flyovers. The Barapulla flyover is marked as three lanes. Three cars do fit but the lanes are very narrow, probably much less than standard 3.5m lane width. ADAS would probably react unpredictably when another car pass by at very close distance. The government themselve is forcing us to pass each other at unsafe distance by building such narrow roads.

[man_and_machine]

This is a new tech that is getting adopted. I would not find it surprising that your insurance might start to vary (meaning will cost more) if your car came with ADAS. On a statistical basis if the ADAS cars have a higher incidence ratio, since the decisions are not done by humans which is counter intuitive for our roads, higher premiums might be possible. Its not a big fraction yet, but might be. Now that more cars have started to come with them, like EVs this is also an evolving area. I guess EBA would stop making it to the bunch of tech that is called ADAS. The data size is too small to act on.
Also this tech not learning factor associated with it. Not active learning at least. While the human learns and adopts the system does not. This makes it difficult to adopt to changing patterns. For instance when you drive from say, Bangalore to Mysore you adopt to 3 different driving conditions, BLR city, the high way and Mysore city. All different things, EBA would behave exactly the same without the sense of the context it is in.
In more mature countries, like EU nations (not Italy :-) ), all roads and all roads conditions are exactly the same, wherever you drive. There these alorightms are more suitable.
How many times have you heard friends and colleagues say, hey I am so used to driving in city A(choose, Delhi, Mum, Kol, etc.) and I can't drive in this city B (choose Delhi, Mum, Kol, etc.). ADAS especially those have have also driven acceleration and braking in their constructs are dangerous than the benefit they bring.

[StopUnderrides]

Originally Posted by man_and_machine

That is actually the scary part. ADAS will save from the vehicle in front but most likely not from the trailing one.

There’s no free lunch. Adas does increase the likelihood of a rear end collision slightly even in developed countries. However if the rear end collision did occur the driver was tailgating. If not he’d have left enough space to “stop within the distance he could see to be clear”

Counterintuitive as it may seem, the effective way to tackle a tailgater is to slow down and increase space in front of you so that you have enough space for you as well as for the tailgater to brake.

You should see the 1960 era, NFSA videos from Australia featuring Constable Caine. Very educative

https://youtu.be/DegMZyBZT3Y

[outdoorlover]

I have been using ADAS and Cross traffic alert on my Volvo XC90 for the last couple of years and find it quite useful. I guess being new in India, drivers will take some time to getting used to it and then appreciate the instances where these safety features saved someone's life.

[dvr08]

If we think about ADAS, why are people not ready to accept it yet or see it as a danger. I think it is because of these two reasons.

1. Our driving style: Even if one wants to follow traffic rules and lane discipline, we can't do so driving in our country. The ratio between good and bad drivers are 1:10. Autonomous braking, lane keep assist are the ADAS culprits who might cause problems. What we can maximum do is try to maintain distance from objects which are in front, left and right. ADAS will not have to work harder when we maintain this distance. Again this is just a driver's effort. We have no control on who is behind us and that is never resolvable

2. Aftermath of an incident: Imagine autonomous braking results in a rear end collision and the vehicle behind belongs to a goon! No need to say what would be the repercussions.

Owing to these two, I would never want ADAS in my car while driving in india. It might be of little help while we are in a well marked highway, but how often do we drive on highways? ADAS is just not a marketing gimmick, but i think manufacturers need these kind of driver assistance systems to score a 5/5 in GNCAP ratings. Now that we are getting more conscious about a safe car, anyone would think 5 star is always better than a 4.

[Shekhar9200]

Originally Posted by GTO

...This deserves its own discussion because ADAS is best for developed countries with "ideal" driving conditions. Whenever I sit in a high-end car, I usually switch off all driver assistance systems first. Problem with many brands (including Mercedes) is that, they automatically re-activate after restarting the car.

Spent a few days with the EQS and in one of the drives, I missed switching off the driver assistance system. At the Bandra-Mahim Causeway signal, the car suddenly slammed on the brakes, leaving all of us in shock . We were 5 onboard and all were buckled up tight, so no injury. Now, a couple of feet away was a pedestrian and (on another side of the car) an autorickshaw. For the life of me, I couldn't figure out which one made the car brake so damn hard. Manufacturers should realise this is not Europe or USA; a biker being 3 feet from you is an everyday occurrence (hell, many times they zoom past at a 1-foot distance). Luckily, the vehicle behind wasn't close, else I'd have been rear-ended. God help the EQS if it was a wheezy 15-year old Bolero with a crash guard & bald tyres behind. For that matter, 99.99% of the cars on our roads won't match the EQS' braking ability and inevitably rear-end it.

Post this incident, before I could even start the car, my family told me "switch off the driver assistance systems". This was literally the first thing they were telling me upon sitting in the car!...

ADAS may be of assistance only on highways that too when you are there for long drives and a single driver

[amalji]

Originally Posted by DicKy

The only ADAS function that I feel is usable is the adaptive cruise control. Makes sense for India, where the normal cruise control can't be activated for even 5mins in most highways.

I have never experienced the AEB yet. But, I'm scared now after seeing multiple use cases where it brakes without a reason / for a bad reason!

+1 on the Adaptive cruise control. It is such a joy to use it ( even though I have tried it only in US and not in India )

Even the normal cruise control, I use it all the time these days whether it's in highways of Kerala/TN/Karnataka or on Outer/Inner Ring roads of Bangalore ( 40 - 50 kmph ). It's all about getting used to the behavior of the system and reducing the speed to a value that suits the road and traffic. For a typical 10.5 hours drive from Bangalore to Trivandrum, the vehicle will be on cruise control for close to 9 hours. The only place I don't think of cruise control is when the speed is below 40 kmph for extended period of time. In all other times, the right hand is the accelerator.

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by amalji

reducing the speed to a value that suits the road and traffic.

That is the key.

Problem is since we are caged within Kerala roads, the once in a blue moon Tamilnadu trip means ahem...unmentionable speeds...

The Madurai- Kanyakumari stretch would be a perfect place for cruise control if one plans to stay between 80-100km/h.