[psispace]

Originally Posted by wocanak

First, thanks for your detailed perspective on ADAS. Can you elaborate on why you find ACC to be not so useful?

One scenario : Imagine you are driving at 80, in the second lane, and following another car at the same speed. A car or bus in the third (fast) lane carelessly straddles the second and third lane while it overtakes you, your car will brake to slow down. It will then take a few seconds before it decides everything is ok and accelerates back to that speed. Now imagine this happening every few minutes. It gets' uncomfortable after a while. I tried mitigating this by manually in such scenarios, by reducing the speed via the steering ACC controls and then setting it back up. But I found it still too much of a hassle.

Another scenario: You are travelling at 80, you approach another vehicle travelling at 60 and it slows down. You indicate to the fast lane, once in that lane, your car starts accelerating back to 80, but it catches another car or bike ahead on its' radar thats' travelling on the same lane slower, it will then stop accelerating. If the car ahead so much as slightly veers towards the fast lane, it will stop accelerating. In this scenario, we would use our judgement and adjust our speeds slightly to allow for error and then overtake.

Another scenario: If there is a bike ahead riding on the lane marker, the ACC perceives it to be riding in the lane, you will have to switch to the high speed lane to continue at that speed or manually override the system by pressing the accelerator slightly.

Another scenario : Very rarely will you see straight roads in Kerala. Especially where I live now, the roads are all winding and change their elevation rapidly. Its' dangerous using ACC on these roads. Imagine that at a set speed of 60 you are following a car at 40. At the crest of a curve on the road, the car ahead goes out of range of the radar. It perceives the road ahead to be clear and rapidly accelerates to 60 hurtling you towards the outer edge of the curve. This catches you off guard and you are forced to press the brake, which de-activates the system.
This may be partially mitigated in newer cars with lane change assist that can read lane markers.

Having to do all these, takes away the relaxation you expect to get from ACC. To the contrary, I find myself being more vigilant than normal while using it.

The only time I enjoyed ACC was outside KL on the national highways of TN. In KL, I use it only for a few minutes to relieve my right foot for a while.

I was counting on ACC and single pedal driving to help me out as i grow older.

Don't lose hope. I am sure that will be a reality soon.

Originally Posted by Hayek

I think the problem arises because too many of us drive too close to other vehicles. The fact is simple - if you ram someone from behind, it is your fault 100% of the time. If someone rams you from behind, it is his fault.

Agree totally. Even I am guilty at times, especially when I drive my wife's car which has no such systems. It is our attitudes and our archaic laws that need to change.

[SS-Traveller]

ADAS is just its third word in the acronym - ASSIST.

We tend not to follow the basic commandments of driving...

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

The Ninth Commandment

Maintain your Crash Avoidance Space (CAS)

You can read about CAS in detail at this post (The Art of Following & Changing Lanes safely)...

...and ADAS only forces the car to follow these - so it will initiate braking when the CAS is violated, both frontally and laterally. If anyone thinks they are smarter, have better reaction times and superior hand-eye coordination, sure, please turn the ADAS off. Otherwise, the system will apply brakes as the primary means of avoiding a frontal or sideswipe crash (it will not swerve from the vehicle's lane as long as it can detect lane markings on either side). The vehicle behind you is not something ADAS monitors, so hard braking leading to being rear-ended is always a constant risk.

[TN20CQ5187]

Sad to hear about the incident, the more painful part is that a brand new car is damaged when it was nobodys mistake. ADAS did what it was supposed to do, but definitely not suited for indian roads and traffic. While ADAS as a technology is still a baby evolving, the manufactures should take responsibility of any such happening and test the system more in real life conditions in india before launching it ahead of competitors.

I too had a similar incident with xuv700 test drive, when passing and intersection a biker had crossed the road and peeked inside the road with his front tyre. The system assumed the biker was going to cross and jump ahead, it slammed the brakes as well and had many people behind staring at us

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

ADAS is just its third word in the acronym - ASSIST.

We tend not to follow the basic commandments of driving...

...and ADAS only forces the car to follow these - so it will initiate braking when the CAS is violated, both frontally and laterally. If anyone thinks they are smarter, have better reaction times and superior hand-eye coordination, sure, please turn the ADAS off. Otherwise, the system will apply brakes as the primary means of avoiding a frontal or sideswipe crash (it will not swerve from the vehicle's lane as long as it can detect lane markings on either side). The vehicle behind you is not something ADAS monitors, so hard braking leading to being rear-ended is always a constant risk.

Yes, thats true when it works as planned. But it often is too aggressive, even braking when there is a car in the next lane.

On many roads, lane separation is not great (even in the west). Eg 101 highway has construction zones where lanes narrow considerably, and this can often cause false ADAS activations, and at high speed they can be dangerous.
Honda is recalling 1.7 million vehicles due to this
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...s-a9281526240/

[lemedico]

Originally Posted by RaghuVis

Sorry to say but I don't understand this rant! Is ADAS a tool to rectify the driving style and conditions of Indians? Every manufacturer knows that Indian driving conditions are not ideal. Why are they offered then in such countries then?

Also, If ADAS was indeed offered, they should make that feature in OFF mode by default. If you want to use it, it should be switched ON.

Just like the sunroof phenomenon, bragging rights!

[Turbanator]

I experienced this two years back on my first Mercedes. And believe me, it was so sudden and harsh that I could not understand what had happened. Luckily there was no one behind else; it would have been a crash as most humans cannot brake with that veracity. For the next few weeks, it was a norm to go into the menu and switch it off, as it would come on by default every time you started the car.


After a few months, I got a hang or sort of, you can either press the brake slightly and try to fool the system or continue pressing the accelerator, or maybe the Car itself learnt . But thankfully, I never had an incident after that. It still tries to intervene, much more when it sees a living animal/ man, that's for sure, but my brake/ acceleration action fools it well.

Not sure if there is indeed self-learning in the MB or if it is me getting adapted or whether such things are possible in the Mahindra/ Hyundai as I have not driven one yet.

Will I like to have one? Definitely -Yes, as long as it learns (or allows the driver to get adapted), it can help you stop or manoeuvre (pull you back in the right lane) when you are not very attentive or something happens quickly.

So I think, as with other things, this is going to get better with time.

[Small Bot]

I have a question. Does having ADAS features in a car have the probability of increasing its crash rating?
When it's a 'good to have' feature, it's fine. But if it's made important just because of landing higher crash test scores, then car manufacturers might want to force that on us more.
I really hope the government doesn't look at ADAS the same way they look at 6-airbags.

[lemedico]

I predict a roll-back of such features in a few years.
We're already seeing companies going back to physical clicky buttons on the console and steering wheels. The ultra modern touch sensitive ones surely looked like the pinnacle of modern technology but when it comes to the practicalities, most backward.
ADAS has no place on most of the roads over here, barring some road trips on expressways. Even then, I don't think I'd like anything but lane keep assists and radar guided cruise control.
We cannot keep demanding features from the European and American markets just to brag and then suffer.
Sunroofs : no use even in the winter. Look at the smog. Dare we open it for its actual use!

[Dr ST]

Sorry to hear about the unfortunate incident. I hope you get your car repaired soon and wish you unlimited miles of safe driving.

Our Tiguan Allspace was hit by a bike from behind when the vehicle performed an emergency braking. There was no serious damage. I feel India is not ready to have ADAS as a day-to-day feature. Our traffic conditions simply don't permit it.

Regards

[narayanbabu]

Originally Posted by abtyagi

Casualties of ADAS in Indian conditions especially in NCR. Near ITO a car in the next lane was coming too close and ADAS decided to apply brakes, Causing the car behind to tail-end the Tuscon.
We haven't even got the mats yet, so not sure if the broken parts will be available at the dealership.

Hypothetically, (ADAS or not) in such a scenario, one or the other collision is a possibility. What I meant is, if you (or ADAS) didn't brake at that point, you could've hit the other car (and / or rear collision), if you brake you have a chance of getting rear ended. Now, the point of contention is whether a human vs ADAS can make a better split second decision to avoid both collisions (front and rear). This is like stick vs Auto gears of the yester-decades, where almost always manual shifting would be more efficient, but in the last few years auto has (in many cases) exceeded the efficiency of drive over manual. Is ADAS there yet? Maybe / may not be (mostly not), but if we are working in conjunction with ADAS (emphasis on "ASSISTANCE") I feel it makes it overall safer.

I have been extensively using ADAS (especially the front collision assist, cross traffic alert etc.), in my personal view, I have a high sense of security and confidence, that "my car will protect me", after a lot of scenarios where the braking warned me it felt there is danger ahead.

I have a Tiguan Allspace, and it first gives a visual warning (Big red icon on cluster), audio warning (beep) and then semi braking and finally takes control by hard braking (all of some of these stages may get skipped/happen simultaneously depending on time to react). And I have had at least half a dozen scenarios where this has helped me avoid a collision. But you have to be aware and accustomed to the way ADAS works, otherwise it could be a split-brain scenario like someone had mentions (two drivers).
Also, on lane assist, I keep it on always, which forces me (like seat belt has now become a habit) to always put indicators to shift lanes, to avoid the steering feedback. While, this only works on highways with lane markings, I have now carried the habit everywhere, whenever I turn the steering to shift lanes (imaginary as well) I put indicators.

I wouldn't go as extreme as saying "turn of ADAS for India", but you should definitely understand its behaviour, and you will slowly build trust and understand how to positively use the "assistance". Also, go to the ADAS settings and tune it to your liking (you can keep late warning for collisions, or enable only warning and no action etc. )

[narayanbabu]

Originally Posted by Hayek

I think the problem arises because too many of us drive too close to other vehicles. The fact is simple - if you ram someone from behind, it is your fault 100% of the time. If someone rams you from behind, it is his fault.

this is not true. In most countries there are well defined "brake checking" laws. On highways, people get ticketed more often for not maintaining minimum speed or brake checking or merging into lanes at lower speed than over speeding.

[ritedhawan]

Pre-emptive braking feature of ADAS is definitely a curse in the city, especially considering the chaotic Indian traffic. I guess the thread is broadcasting a clear message to those whose car's come with this feature; 'Turn Off the ADAS before driving!' Wish some kind of functionality could be build in the car which kind of cries out 'Disable ADAS!' before you hit the start button, or your phone reminding you the same.

Someone here mentioned that on highways it would be detrimental. I beg to differ, as on highways the high relative speeds when compared to city would provide enough room for this pre-emptive braking feature of ADAS to show its true colors. I think it would give the feature enough time to deaccelerate the car and\or avoid any kind of mishap, the higher the speed of the car, ADAS along with ABS cutting in continuously would provide opportunity to out maneuver the incoming obstacle.

I think the problem arises because too many of us drive too close to other vehicles. The fact is simple - if you ram someone from behind, it is your fault 100% of the time. If someone rams you from behind, it is his fault.

Agreed. The fact you mentioned is actually the 'Rule of thumb': One who hits from behind is the culprit.

I will make a list of all these ADAS equipped vehicles sold and watch out for them on the road and keep a safe distance between my radiator and its tail light or overtake.

Eagerly awaiting that list you mentioned. I share the same sentiment as yours, and therefore await the list which I will keep handy so as to stay away from those vehicles which will be part of that list, especially in the city.

[steadfast]

One quick ques:

If the rear driver has a dashcam and wants to file a case against the driver ahead for illogical braking, will it be a case against the owner or against Hyundai for ADAS?

Generally, who is responsible for ADAS related accidents or deaths ? Owner or manufacturer ?

[pganapathy]

The reality is ADAS isn't at fault. It is bad driving from the car behind. You should always leave yourself enough gap to stop safely in the event of an emergency stop from the car in front. Unfortunately Indian drivers don't believe in that and will occupy the space you leave believing it gets them to their destination faster

[Rajamass]

Originally Posted by abtyagi

Casualties of ADAS in Indian conditions especially in NCR. Near ITO a car in the next lane was coming too close and ADAS decided to apply brakes, Causing the car behind to tail-end the Tuscon.
We haven't even got the mats yet, so not sure if the broken parts will be available at the dealership.

Sorry to hear

But every manufacturer provides an option to disable the ADAS features you don't want to use. May be you can check that if it is not working as intended.