[rule breaker]

Originally Posted by clevermax

It can be the actual meaning of the word, (its synonym starts with 'B' and ends with 't') because both cars in question here have lots of it!

I like your (intelli) sense of humor.

[vjoy3]

Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD

I simply fail to understand that whenever its Maruti Vs TATA polls on this forum, its the TATA who gets the major chunk of votes. Similar was the case with Vista vs. swift vs. palio poll.
However, no matter what the poll says the car sales figures seem to speak a different language. Manza has got a luke warm response while dzire still has a long waiting list (which is helping manza's cause a bit).

Yeah, with Manza TATA has managed to provide a worthy rival to the Dzire and its probably the best TATA car to date but then that alone does not make it the preferred choice for the buyers.

If you put aside the cost to sheetmetal ratio there is little that makes the manza a better buy.

Despite of the fact that the manza has a more powerful motor courtesy the VGT its actually the slower of the two cars. Thanks to all that weight you get a car that is more powerful than Dzire yet slower and less fuel efficient.
Also, the Manza isn't what you will call a driver's car. Though its much more comfortable at rear than the dzire but then Dzire/Manza's are most often than not self driven.
Enough has been said about the build quality of both the cars, rather the lack of it but the latest development being that Maruti has upped the quality of the swift/dzire with the launch of the new K-series cars, chances are despite being lightly built its the dzire that is likely to hold itself in one piece for longer.
Also, none of the cars is a beauty contest winner. Dzire's oddball looks are major deterrent for many but atleast the dzire is well propotioned. The manza though easier on the eye due to its conserative styling looks a bit oddball too. With that boot the proportions have gone for a toss. And no the new front bumper does not help it much as the car's boot looks as long as its hood.

In the end Manza is for those who are looking for a chauffuer driven car and do not seek an entertaining handling package. With lots of cabin space and a gigantic boot Manza makes a lot of sense for fleet owners too. But as an automobile whose appeal lies beyond "lots of sheet metal for money" funda its the dzire that is a better automobile for too.

I'll any day choose a car that performs better, is more efficient has better ride and handling combo and great after sales network rather than a car that has loads of space, no driving flair and a lack lusture performance despite being more powerful on paper.


Regards.

Wonder how many miles did you drive Manza before making above conclusions on paper(tbhp). Your insights on the sheet metal and vehicle making sense for fleet owners are interesting. From your signature, looks like you have always owned a Maruti four wheeler?

Vijay

[jaaz]

[quote=YC.BALENO.CHD;1733279]I simply fail to understand that whenever its Maruti Vs TATA polls on this forum, its the TATA who gets the major chunk of votes. Similar was the case with Vista vs. swift vs. palio poll.
However, no matter what the poll says the car sales figures seem to speak a different language. Manza has got a luke warm response while dzire still has a long waiting list (which is helping manza's cause a bit).

The Waiting period for Dzire is just a Marketing Ploy. It is very rare that the demand exceeds production. Maruti has got the highest production capacity in India.

Another news I hear from the Forum is that Fiat is stopping Maruti from producing more Diesel Engine - Wrong. Maruti has got the rights to manufacture the Engines under License agreement. And the total production capacity of Maruti is 300,000 Diesel Engines per year. Are they selling so many Diesel Models - It's anybody's guess.

The reason for playing this game - whether it is Maruti or any other manufacturer is that the Customer will never ask for a discount on a Model which has got waiting period. India, traditionally favours products which have got a long waiting periods ( Remember Bajaj Scooter ).


-RC.BALENO.CHD:- Enough has been said about the build quality of both the cars, rather the lack of it but the latest development being that Maruti has upped the quality of the swift/dzire with the launch of the new K-series cars, chances are despite being lightly built its the dzire that is likely to hold itself in one piece for longer.

Suzuki comes near the Bottom end when it comes to Quality in Europe. So, still we've not experienced the best. Now the question is Why other Manufacuterers have not bettered. It's becuase No manufacturer can match Maruti's Pricing (because of heavily depreciated Assets).

Let's hope the new Manufacturer's entering into the Small Car Category will raise the bar in Quality, if not the price.

And a piece of advice @YC.Baleno.CHD - You've never owned any other Car apart from Maruti. Why don't you give a try? Palio 1.6 was a Driving Enthusiast's Car. SRV was another One (Maybe with few flaws). But all these have failed becuase people like you have sticked to Maruti.

[rule breaker]

@Jazz: You are absolutely right.

According to Maruti's own website, their production capacity for Dzire is 1.4 to 1.9 times the demand. Hence waiting period is just a ploy.

And icing on the cake (for Suzuki) is that they charge 50000 Rs as booking amount, keep it for 3-4 months and earn interest instead of loosing money on discount to customer.

Well, it is not Maruti, it is Suzuki.

[kingpin1]

Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD

I simply fail to understand that whenever its Maruti Vs TATA polls on this forum, its the TATA who gets the major chunk of votes. Similar was the case with Vista vs. swift vs. palio poll.
However, no matter what the poll says the car sales figures seem to speak a different language. Manza has got a luke warm response while dzire still has a long waiting list (which is helping manza's cause a bit).

Yeah, with Manza TATA has managed to provide a worthy rival to the Dzire and its probably the best TATA car to date but then that alone does not make it the preferred choice for the buyers.

If you put aside the cost to sheetmetal ratio there is little that makes the manza a better buy.

Despite of the fact that the manza has a more powerful motor courtesy the VGT its actually the slower of the two cars. Thanks to all that weight you get a car that is more powerful than Dzire yet slower and less fuel efficient.
Also, the Manza isn't what you will call a driver's car. Though its much more comfortable at rear than the dzire but then Dzire/Manza's are most often than not self driven.
Enough has been said about the build quality of both the cars, rather the lack of it but the latest development being that Maruti has upped the quality of the swift/dzire with the launch of the new K-series cars, chances are despite being lightly built its the dzire that is likely to hold itself in one piece for longer.
Also, none of the cars is a beauty contest winner. Dzire's oddball looks are major deterrent for many but atleast the dzire is well propotioned. The manza though easier on the eye due to its conserative styling looks a bit oddball too. With that boot the proportions have gone for a toss. And no the new front bumper does not help it much as the car's boot looks as long as its hood.

In the end Manza is for those who are looking for a chauffuer driven car and do not seek an entertaining handling package. With lots of cabin space and a gigantic boot Manza makes a lot of sense for fleet owners too. But as an automobile whose appeal lies beyond "lots of sheet metal for money" funda its the dzire that is a better automobile for too.

I'll any day choose a car that performs better, is more efficient has better ride and handling combo and great after sales network rather than a car that has loads of space, no driving flair and a lack lusture performance despite being more powerful on paper.


Regards.

Your conclusion is Flawed. Dzire is not a better ride than the Manza.Maybe if you can shed the Maruti fascination you will find the reasons for it. SWIFT is a good drive, I am sorry the DZIRE is not.

Performs Better?No driving flair?? What performace are you talking about? You havn't even driven the MANZA for a length of time. Are you basing this on your 5 min Test Drive??

DZIRE has upped the build quality with the K-series engine.
Are you saying that the engine is better and hence the car is better build quality? Good going! Next we will have someone claim that the car is better build quality coz the tyres are tubeless heh.

Sheet metal ratio? or whatever it is, at the end of the day Manza beats the Dzire hands down. Maybe you should try looking around the forum and then pass these ridiculously myopic statements.

[rishab.k]

Since the build quality has been brought up here, I just had a query.The dzire claims to have a side impact beam in terms of safety.Is there something similar in Manza ? I didn't find anything mentioned about this on Tata website in terms of safety feature.

[jaaz]

Originally Posted by rishab.k

Since the build quality has been brought up here, I just had a query.The dzire claims to have a side impact beam in terms of safety.Is there something similar in Manza ? I didn't find anything mentioned about this on Tata website in terms of safety feature.

Nowadays all Vehicles come with such standard safety features. When Small Cars like Santro etc., can get it, then why not a Sedan.

And I think this has been made mandatory for all cars? Other Car manufacturers don't point out on this because it is mandatory in US and Europe. So what's the point in highlighting the same feature which everybody has?

[PAVAN KADAM]

Originally Posted by rishab.k

Since the build quality has been brought up here, I just had a query.The dzire claims to have a side impact beam in terms of safety.Is there something similar in Manza ? I didn't find anything mentioned about this on Tata website in terms of safety feature.

All TATA vehicles pass the collision test, i have not heard about Maruti's so far.

About the driving comfort and VFM point of view, Manza beats Dzire in all aspects.

The Build quality in Manza is better than what was expected, it can match the class of Dzire build quality.

As per the below link, even outside polls, the TATA Manza has proven to be a Super Hit.

http://connect.in.com/tata-manza/profile-1875709.html

I dont understand why people buy the Dzire, if you compare the size of Dzire and the Vista, the Dzire is just half a feet bigger than the NO-Box Vista.

Why and how can you compare a cramped, claustrophobic, ugly looking Dzire to the Manza.

Manza is priced better, has more space and roomier, good engine, VFM, No waiting period gimmick,100 times comfortable than the Dzire. Has most of the gadgets you dont get in the Dzire.

My vote goes for the TATA MANZA

[rishab.k]

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM

All TATA vehicles pass the collision test, i have not heard about Maruti's so far.

About the driving comfort and VFM point of view, Manza beats Dzire in all aspects.

The Build quality in Manza is better than what was expected, it can match the class of Dzire build quality.

Thanks Pavan. That's a very reassuring answer you have given.

[rule breaker]

Manza critics are already saying it has lots of steel.
Anyway, a car is as safe as its driver is. I had Maruti 800 without ABS, EBD, Side beams etc and did 170000+ Km, enduring varied terrain and moods and I am still alive.

How much safe is safe?

Depends on size of your wallet and fear.

[nandi_ca]

Originally Posted by kingpin1

Your conclusion is Flawed. Dzire is not a better ride than the Manza.Maybe if you can shed the Maruti fascination you will find the reasons for it. SWIFT is a good drive, I am sorry the DZIRE is not.

Performs Better?No driving flair?? What performace are you talking about? You havn't even driven the MANZA for a length of time. Are you basing this on your 5 min Test Drive??

DZIRE has upped the build quality with the K-series engine.
Are you saying that the engine is better and hence the car is better build quality? Good going! Next we will have someone claim that the car is better build quality coz the tyres are tubeless heh.

Sheet metal ratio? or whatever it is, at the end of the day Manza beats the Dzire hands down. Maybe you should try looking around the forum and then pass these ridiculously myopic statements.

+ 1 to that Kingpin. I find there are a lot of comments in here that are nonsense specially when it comes to people backing the dzire.
My dad owns the Dzire and i have first hand experience of the so called ride and handling of this car.In one word it is just "over rated", I find it hard that people just refuse to appreciate a car that is miles ahead of the competition and is almost path breaking VFM when you consider this particular segment.Manza gets my vote almost a no brainer!!
Lastly to YC.BALENO.CHD, Please go through GTO's thread about the Manza you will start searching for the Delte button to delete the post you just posted
And Baleno was a dud, why would you want a login named after a dud car??Just wondering or do you recon the Baleno to be a better ride than the OHC haha just joking mate.! Hope you take it in the right spirit.All of us go through these blonde moments some of us post it and expose them like you did.

[sachinj12]

Originally Posted by nandi_ca

And Baleno was a dud, why would you want a login named after a dud car??J

Huh ??? What's wrong with ya? It's one of the best enthusiast's car.

[nandi_ca]

Originally Posted by sachinj12

Huh ??? What's wrong with ya? It's one of the best enthusiast's car.

Enthusiast : a person filled with enthusiasm: as a : one who is ardently attached to a cause, object, or pursuit <a sports car enthusiast> b : one who tends to become ardently absorbed in an interest

Sachinj12, I know Maruti makes some good cars, I am sorry Baleno is not anything close to an enthusiasts car.If some other car co had come out with the baleno or a car which flopped like the baleno there would be people citing that as an example not to buy a car. So here is a thought a flop is a FLOP, Baleno is "DUD".Things don't change if you like it or not.!
Maybe Maruti enthusiasts found it extremely good on performance and FE but we are talking cars not what a bunch of amatures think of a particular dud.
Back to the Dzire and Manza!

[MihirC]

Hey buddy,

Maruti is a company which makes good cars for the price. The cars are good for average and low maintenance, also the service is good. The swift is a really good car and Im sure everyone agrees with that. The dezire is a good car in its own right.

1) If you say Dezire gives a better average than Manza, many might accept as Manza is heavier than Dezire,

2) If you say the Dezire is more fun to drive, many might accept,

3) If you say the steering on Dezire is more responsive and precise, many might accept.

But if you say baseless stuff like the ride and handling of Dezire is better than Manza Then my friend,you are just being an short sighted MUL fanboy.

No harm in being a fanboy either, I myself am a fanboy of TATA and FIAT, but bashing a car or a product just because you dont like it is not acceptable.

Apart from all the loose statements made by you, I request you to search a thread on T-BHP which clearly shows that MUL has not even bothered to change the center of gravity (Its a Technical term you can google it )of swift when they added the boot and called it dezire. As far as Im concerned thats a serious flaw in the design but nonetheless the car does have its other merits.

The car (Dezire) is good as a car from the Maruti stable but as a product its not a benchmark in any which way, the exact is the opposite of Manza, As a product the Manza is a benchmark on a few fronts while as aTATA product people or the masses have their doubts. I have Maruti Dezire, a FIAT Linea and a Indica Vista in the family and let me tell you that MUL A** is good but TATA is catching up and fast.

Dont be so short sighted, you ll end up missing on good cars.

No offense to any Dezire or Manza owners. They are cars for different requirements.

[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by MihirC

MUL has not even bothered to change the center of gravity (Its a Technical term you can google it )of swift when they added the boot and called it dezire.

MUL - or anyone else - don't need to change the center of gravity of Swift, or whatever it is. The CoG will automatically change when some extra weight is added to an object. I just don't get what you mention here. Could you please explain, or 'Google' it thoroughly?