[nareshov]

Originally Posted by alpha1

But why can't I do the same movement with dumbells?
I have seen a kettle ball.
I have seen a dumbell.

There is hardly any movement that you can do with kettleball - but can't do with dumbell.

Ah, I should've phrased it better. You're right. But the kettlebell exercises are such that it makes use of the asymmetric weight distribution in a way that incorporates explosive power moments and in doing those movements, better usage of stabiliser muscles.

Originally Posted by alpha1

To be honest that thought came to my mind only while writing it down.
Even I had never though it this way!
We take these activities up as if our goals are to become a pro competitor.
Whereas in most cases it remains only recreation activity.

Originally Posted by alpha1

You can easily keep overtraining in check. Just look out for the symptoms.
For me it is usually feeling lethargic and sleepy throughout the day.
Next stage is losing appetite (feeling not hungry - not getting hunger pangs)
Next stage is getting sick.

Thanks for this! I've felt observation 1 and 2 beginning of a week whenever I've cycled a _lot_ the previous weekend.

At the moment, I've had a bad past month or two because of the cold weather plus sinusitis. The situation has been very up and down: today my nose is all blocked like it was a couple of weeks ago. Hard to pin-point the exact trigger (I digress).

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by alpha1

You can easily keep overtraining in check. Just look out for the symptoms.
For me it is usually feeling lethargic and sleepy throughout the day.
Next stage is losing appetite (feeling not hungry - not getting hunger pangs)
Next stage is getting sick.

That happens often with me as a cyclist - there will be entire week when I will not do much physical activity except walking around office (1-1.5km), and I'll come home and do a 60-70km ride. That too after 3-4 hour sleep after landing from a flight (~1 hour sleep). Then i'll be lethargic all day.

except i've never lost appetite!!

Bad jokes apart, thanks for the heads up.

[alpha1]

Oops I forgot one more very important symptom of overtraining, the amended list now reads as:

Feeling lethargic and sleepy throughout the day (even after good night's sleep and perhaps the afternoon/evening siesta).
Next stage is losing appetite (= feeling not hungry - not getting hunger pangs, you may still eat huge amount though based on the brain's programming)
Next stage is losing considerable sex drive (compared to the baseline figures) (this may happens sometimes along with the appetite thingy)
Next stage is getting sick (cold and flu - usually the symptoms of low resistance to pathogens).

The immediate consequence of training is lowering of testosterone by a few percentage. If your body doesn't recuperate (which means the T levels come back to normal) before the next training session - you will start moving towards the overtraining zone.
Staying in this low T levels produces the symptoms of overtraining.

[Samurai]

I think you have successfully scared quite a few from overtraining.

[fine69]

I have taken off from HIIT due to a shoulder injury which I think is going to take at least another month to fully recover. Now I stopped taking the whey protein that I was taking but I wanted to get opinion on how advantageous it is to continue taking Whey Protein while waiting it out for an injury to heal.

Does the BCAAs in Whey Protein (I use Dymatize Elite) help in faster recovery even when I'm not working out at all?

[alpha1]

According to my understanding healing an injury should put a greater protein and energy demands than bodybuilding.

[fine69]

Originally Posted by alpha1

According to my understanding healing an injury should put a greater protein and energy demands than bodybuilding.

The logic makes absolute sense but then why didn't my doctor prescribe any protein supplements for this. I'm sure instead of or with anti-inflammatory & pain killers they can even recommend whey protein but they don't, which is why the dilemma.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by fine69

The logic makes absolute sense but then why didn't my doctor prescribe any protein supplements for this. I'm sure instead of or with anti-inflammatory & pain killers they can even recommend whey protein but they don't, which is why the dilemma.

Which brings us to far greater question: does extra protein sources like Whey etc really make that much difference?

I can tell you that based on your body's genetic capacity (manifested through hormones like GH/Test/etc) - you only have a limited capacity to utilize the protein content anabolically. The rest is either excreted or converted to fats ultimately (I may not be entirely correct on the conversion to fat).

The reason why professionals take humongous amount of proteins is simply because of the external aids, which increase their capacity to absorb and utilize the proteins. And hence the herculean muscles/physiques. (plus most pro's have better genetic capacity simply to begin with).


To further add: I was reading about powerlifters like Wendler, Tate, Simmons. They are pretty huge (because of muscles, not just fat). Can move huge loads.
None of them is pretty gung-ho about supplements and protein grams etc. In fact I believe one of them even said that the nutrition angle is over rated.


Also for further thoughts: does a growing child/teenager require more proteins or a grown up adult. Who actually puts in more muscles (in kgs)? Who actually eats less proteins?

[sukhoi30]

Originally Posted by alpha1

Which brings us to far greater question: does extra protein sources like Whey etc really make that much difference?

No, my experience is that it doesn't. All these protein supplements stuff is simply money spinning business and making people shell out money unnecessarily. I tried Whey protein a few times in the past. What it does to me is just give me bloating sensation and lot of gastric problems. Thought it was because of some other stuff but over time I realised that I have lactose intolerance. Most of the Whey protein also has lactose (trust me, even the Whey isolate has). Also, even after taking that for months, I didn;t see any difference in my muscle build up.
So, now, I have thrown all that away and eating normal food. It is keeping me healthy and fit. And the Gym keeps me in shape.
Do you know why these movie stars have bulked up muscles the way they do? They take creatine supplements. This is what will retain water in your muscle and help you bulge up. They have these while they are shooting so that the muscles show up in the movie. After that they go back to normal diet and they will look no different that anybody else on the street.
But creatine has its own set of side effects. If you don't drink sufficient water with it, you will suffer dehydration.

[fine69]

So do I take the supplement which costs me 120 rupees a scoop or I don't?

That was my original question but you guys just don't stop confusing people on this thread, don't you?!

To let you more on the injury. I wanted to take burpees to the next level so I started pushing my hip down just as we go down in the plank position. Next I hear a tear, just like you hear your clothes tear, only it was from the right shoulder in front.

For the next 3-4 days I took it easy and the pain subsided. Then I started feeling the pain in the back (near right shoulder blade) during push-ups which continued to grow worse until about 2 months back when I had to stop working out completely.

Since the last 2 months the pain in the right shoulder blade has gone, its totally fine but the point where I think the muscle tear happened, that has started paining a lot. Hence, the whey protein question to check if it'd speed up the recovery.

[Samurai]

I will be completing 30 years of working out in June. In the 80s, it was mostly pushups, running and yoga. In the early 90s, I used to do 2 hours of gym workout 5 times a week in addition to martial arts. Combat conditioning and martial arts only after the 90s. But I never took any supplements, just regular food, no 6-egg diets either. I eat what my wife kids and parents eat.

Does that answer your question?

[fine69]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Does that answer your question?

Not really.

I'm myself no expert on what BCAAs do and how the absence of some of them in our regular food would affect muscle recovery, hence the query.

I specifically wanted to know whether there's any advantage of consuming these BCAAs and other tons of stuff that's "allegedly" present in my protein powder which can help fasten the recovery of the muscle tear.

May be you never had the kind of injuries I did, may be you had even worse injuries but were patient enough for them to heal, may be your body's healing process is better than mine, hope you know what I mean.

I've read enough on Whey Protein and since a lot of people swear by it I thought why not give it a try. But a scientific backing on whether the complex ingredients its made of actually help with muscle tear healing is what I was seeking an answer to.

Now you may say that why don't I simply continue taking it and find it out for myself but since it isn't cheap enough for my pocket I thought I'd stick to it only while working out.

I think the question that arises now is which all BCAAs (and other things) are missing in our regular food which can be had with the use of this supplement. Not to mention, whether the BCAAs that are absent in our staple diet are even helpful in the first place.

[sukhoi30]

Originally Posted by fine69

May be you never had the kind of injuries I did, may be you had even worse injuries but were patient enough for them to heal, may be your body's healing process is better than mine, hope you know what I mean.

First you need to understand why these injuries happen. Muscle tear happen when you are pushing your muscles over the limit. Once torn, you should wait for it to heal. It could take several days. Body heals slowly but surely whether or not you take protein supplements.

Originally Posted by fine69

I've read enough on Whey Protein and since a lot of people swear by it I thought why not give it a try. But a scientific backing on whether the complex ingredients its made of actually help with muscle tear healing is what I was seeking an answer to.

Don't know if there is a scientific backing or not, but protein is available in almost all the stuff that we eat naturally. Even though they may be in minute amounts but they are there. That is unlike calcium which is present only in a few food products. Which is why doctors give you calcium supplements when you get fractures to speed up healing. They won't give you protein supplements for muscle tear. They may give you anti-inflammatory medicines instead. So, you figure!!

[1-Testosterone]

Originally Posted by fine69

Not really.

I'm myself no expert on what BCAAs do and how the absence of some of them in our regular food would affect muscle recovery, hence the query.

I specifically wanted to know whether there's any advantage of consuming these BCAAs and other tons of stuff that's "allegedly" present in my protein powder which can help fasten the recovery of the muscle tear.

May be you never had the kind of injuries I did, may be you had even worse injuries but were patient enough for them to heal, may be your body's healing process is better than mine, hope you know what I mean.

I've read enough on Whey Protein and since a lot of people swear by it I thought why not give it a try. But a scientific backing on whether the complex ingredients its made of actually help with muscle tear healing is what I was seeking an answer to.

Now you may say that why don't I simply continue taking it and find it out for myself but since it isn't cheap enough for my pocket I thought I'd stick to it only while working out.

I think the question that arises now is which all BCAAs (and other things) are missing in our regular food which can be had with the use of this supplement. Not to mention, whether the BCAAs that are absent in our staple diet are even helpful in the first place.

There's a between FREE form BCAA's (L-Leucine, L-Isoleucine and L-Valine) and the PEPTIDE BONDED ones (present in your protein powder virtually every good which contains protein). the metabolic pathways are different. The former is absorbed at a lightening quick speed and may cause hyperaminoacidemia - Faster recovery, faster fat loss and Lesser CNS fatigue (it lowers Serotonin levels).
So if you're training intensely, I would recommend you to go for free form BCAA's intra-workout (with or without Gatorade) for best results.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by fine69

May be you never had the kind of injuries I did, may be you had even worse injuries but were patient enough for them to heal, may be your body's healing process is better than mine, hope you know what I mean.

Martial arts and no injuries? I've had plenty of them, but only remember the really bad ones. But I am patient, I wait them out. In 2007, one Silambam technique that involved leaping from a crouched position tore a muscle. After that day if I bend my knee beyond 90 degree, I won't have any strength in the leg. During that time I was given Maruti Esteem as a loaner car, which has very low seating, so I had to bend my knee more than 90 degree. I simply couldn't drive that car. Quickly changed into a WagonR. I had to make such compromises during that time. This injury lasted one full year.

Last year I injured my back hand. For 6 months even little kid could bring me close to tears by giving a firm handshake.