[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by amitk26

As a rule of thumb your max heartrate should not exceed 220 - your age. So for a 35 years old this should be 185 max.

When you set a hard number such as speed of 13kmph for 30 minutes in 1 year as a goal you may be shooting max heart rate limit and in process causing injury invisible to you.

I would suggest if you are working out on treadmill or on elliptical trainer aways use heart rate monitor.

Suppose if you don't have access to HR moniter then running naturally in open and setting distance goal is most appropriate.
As there is no motor to push you beyond your limits chances of damaging cardiovascular muscles is not there in natural running.

Most visible sign of injury due to overworked muscles is myoglobin in urine. Drink a lot of water and if you observe your urine is dark in color just stop and keep drinking lot of water for 3-4 days to flush out. Myoglobin can damage kidneys.

True to an extent, but consider the following inputs:
1. Before starting any exercise program after the age of 30, it is advisable to have a medical clearance, to ensure that there aren't any hidden preexisting issues that may be a factor to take into account.
2. By definition, any activity that you can sustain for 30 minutes is "easy", in the sense that no one can do something for as long a period as 30 minutes at even an age adjusted max heart rate. Not even an elite Oly athlete.
3. Natural running trumps treadmill running any day. Cardio machines such as ellipticals provide a different kind of work out to treadmills, so may be of some value as a supplement to natural running. Treadmills are only a useful compromise if the road conditions are unsafe, or in poor weather. They are also extremely boring.
4. As to the risks of running, almost anyone I know/read of that has died while running was doing long runs outdoors. No case I have heard of that happening on a treadmill. More likely is falling off the belt and injuring yourself. When the power suddenly cuts off, like it does often in India, for example.
5. For beginners, that is to say until you have run regularly for a year, it is best to set either a time goal or a distance goal, but not the two at the same time. Either decide to work towards running for an hour, forgetting completely the distance covered. Or, decide to run 10k in a year after starting walking/running, doesn't matter how long it takes you to run that distance. It is when you decide, for example, to cover 10k in an hour, that issues can arise if training is not carefully done to that end.
6. More than the heart, most healthy beginner runners suffer from injuries to the knees/shins/ankles. The only answer to that is to build up either time or distance very gradually, giving time to build strength and resilience in the tendons, ligaments and muscles of the legs. In team bhp lingo, build up your suspension before going for speed or long distance. If you have the inclination to do this, work towards barefoot running. If that sounds too hard, don't use the fancy running shoes, the more expensive the running shoe, the more chances of injury. The cushioning prevents the necessary strength from being built in the feet, and the lack of this strength is the cause of those injuries. And it also prevents pain signals in the feet/legs from coming through, until after the damage has been done. The best running shoes, ironically, are the old Bata PT shoes with thin soles. Now, after having messed around with runners legs for decades, Nike is promoting Nike Free for runners - at a fancy price.
7. Running - or any exercise for that matter - should be done in a well hydrated state. No arguments about that part.

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

True to an extent, but consider the following inputs:
1. Before starting any exercise program after the age of 30, it is advisable to have a medical clearance, to ensure that there aren't any hidden preexisting issues that may be a factor to take into account.

Age is just a number anyone should take in to account any pre-existing conditions but my post was not meant for pre-existing conditions.

Originally Posted by Sawyer

2. By definition, any activity that you can sustain for 30 minutes is "easy", in the sense that no one can do something for as long a period as 30 minutes at even an age adjusted max heart rate. Not even an elite Oly athlete.

I do not agree that running at 12 or 13 for 30 minutes is easy activity for even a 20 years old (With Max HR = 200) , 12 is the speed which pro-marathon runners maintain and it needs a lot of cardio training to reach there. I do not say it is difficult because I can do it but I will say train sufficiently and don't overwork.

Well I go to a big gym Koramangala Bangalore and there are just a handful of people who can run at more then 12 speed on treadmill for continuously 30 minutes. The sample size is more then 200 at-least whome I get to see during the time I am working out and these people are regulars and not noobs. If you look at any other gym I think the ratio will not be any different.
It is not that all these people can not run for 30 mts at 13 but If you put HR monitor the heart-rate invariably shoots to 180 -190 after 5 minutes or so and people need to reduce to come down to around 160. So in fact there are very very few people who have stamina and don't get exherted.

Look at this Les Mills RPM program it is designed to shoot the HR to 180 -200 for short durations and not remain at peak for prolonged period it is just 45 minutes and it is lot less intense then running at 13 for 30 minutes.

http://w3.lesmills.com/global/en/classes/rpm/about-rpm/

Originally Posted by Sawyer

4. As to the risks of running, almost anyone I know/read of that has died while running was doing long runs outdoors. No case I have heard of that happening on a treadmill. More likely is falling off the belt and injuring yourself. When the power suddenly cuts off, like it does often in India, for example.

I am not talking of physical injuries visible externally but the damage to the very system you are trying to improve. The injury to cardic muscles and myoglobin release in urine is very common for people training with running and calisthenics and 80% of people may not know it , they just feel tired and see no improvement in their physical condition.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/000473.htm

About dying due to exhaustion yes it is rare but there are cases where people have lots of pressure to build body in certain duration few cases which were in news recently.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/la...-dies/1123582/

http://news.in.msn.com/business/arti...mentid=3299976

Quote from above link "Das was fitness freak. He was hard-working and believed that he needed only four hours of sleep a day to keep him fit and fresh. He ran Chennai marathon a couple of months ago. "

I am not privy to the full details but my best guess is that it may be due to damage of cardiac muscles due to over exhaustion.

Originally Posted by Sawyer

6. More than the heart, most healthy beginner runners suffer from injuries to the knees/shins/ankles. The only answer to that is to build up either time or distance very gradually, giving time to build strength and resilience in the tendons, ligaments and muscles of the legs.

True

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Not necessarily so. Look at the male Olympic gymnasts. Some of the best looking proportioned physiques, and very few Africans. Immensely strong too, try even thinking about the crucifix hold on the rings to name just one example. And very functional strength.
They get the way they are by doing lots and lots of gymnastics practice.
Another similar example is the Oly swimmers of sprints/relays.

Sawyer - my point in bringing the genetic aspect was this:
Runners, black, have huge upper body compared to most other runners of other "races". People from other "races" have development in legs, but nowhere else.

Gymnast will have development in upper body because of the hours of training spend on upper body. But what about their lower bodies?

So my point was if you have genetics then even by sleeping you will get the muscular look. If you don't have it - then you do calisthenics, weightlifting, bodybuilding etc you will still fall below the average stocky human built.

So if you look back at my post, it was: if you expect "bhaag milkha / rambo" look from such training, go home and cry.

Originally Posted by JayPrashanth

For guys who spend 2 hours per day in the gym lifting weights, try doing mixed martial arts. You'll understand what core strength is all about). And for this you need calisthenics or body weight exercises.

And Alpha1, armies don't want muscles, they want men who can actually clamber up walls, pull themselves up helicopters, rappel etc. In other words, core/function strength is required, as is endurance. This is why I quoted their regimens for Shashank's benefit as he also needs functional strength for martial arts. This is all I know as I'm not a "certified" fitness instructor. I've been advised by some army friends as to how to get stronger. I just implemented what they told me and I am happy that it worked for me.

Agreed. I call it endurance though, you are calling it core functional strength.
In my opinion strength has a very clear cut definition - maximum effort that you can exert for a brief period of time. (like moving a heavy stone by a centimeter) (activity which doesn't sustain so long that your muscle start using the glycogen stores significantly)

Endurance is the effort you can sustain for prolonged period - like moving a light stone for a kilometer.

Originally Posted by Samurai

We had this short and thin Hawladar in-charge of training us.

He held the 0.303 lee enfield rifle by the tip of the barrel (at the muzzle), so that his arm and the rifle make a single straight line. Then he slowly lifted the rifle from the ground, took it all the way above his head and then slowly returned the rifle to the ground.

I have not done this with rifle, but I have done this with countless other long rod shaped (far lighter than rifle) objects. Lifting something this way taxes your wrist joint and the tendons surrounding tremendously. Also the flexors (thin sinewy muscles on forearms) need to be ultra strong to lock their positions. Shoulder need not be strong for this (unless you intend to lift something above 10 kg in this fashion). I can tell you only people with naturally strong wrist area (genetics) can do such feats.

Most people training in gyms (for bodybuilding or even strength training) never ever train their forearms and wrist this way. Hence, they will definitely fail your test. AND, even if you set your heart out to make your hands/wrist area stronger by training you can never make it as strong as a natural brute.
Its the effect of Growth Hormone on the bones and joints till the end of teenage.

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Reminds me of this:
Quote
On the day of April 8th, 1865, President Lincoln was at a Union Army field hospital in Virginia, spending hours shaking hands and greeting thousands of wounded soldiers.
At the end of that long day, he spotted an ax and walked over to it.
He was able to grip the ax by the very end of the handle and hold the 7-pound tool parallel to the ground, motionless. He was 56 years old at the time.
“Strong men who looked on, men accustomed to manual labor, could not hold the same ax in that position for a moment,” wrote Francis Fisher Browne, a Union soldier who authored a biography called “The Every-Day Life of Abraham Lincoln.”
Lincoln performed this feat on several occasions and it was never mentioned that anyone could duplicate it.
Unquote
Lincoln was very tall, but lanky. Immense finger, forearm and shoulder strength needed for the feat.

Same thing if you realize.
Doesn't require immense strength in shoulders, but requires herculean strength in the wrists to counter the torque. Most people don't train, and even if they would train - they cannot go too far away from their genetically defined strength set up. This is applicable to most of the narrow extremities of our bodies - like wrist, ankle, neck. (Incidentally the most delicate parts and the ones that always end up in some sort of sprain)

In fact to a very large extent even grip strength is played similarly. A person with larger grip strength will always appear stronger, especially in a hand to hand fight, or even otherwise in day to day task. But if you observe the loads being moved in such cases - they are hardly a percentage of what a weightlifter would squat or a powerlifter would deadlift.

[JayPrashanth]

Originally Posted by amitk26

Age is just a number anyone should take in to account any pre-existing conditions but my post was not meant for pre-existing conditions.

I do not agree that running at 12 or 13 for 30 minutes is easy activity for even a 20 years old (With Max HR = 200) , 12 is the speed which pro-marathon runners maintain and it needs a lot of cardio training to reach there. I do not say it is difficult because I can do it but I will say train sufficiently and don't overwork.

Well I go to a big gym Koramangala Bangalore and there are just a handful of people who can run at more then 12 speed on treadmill for continuously 30 minutes. The sample size is more then 200 at-least whome I get to see during the time I am working out and these people are regulars and not noobs. If you look at any other gym I think the ratio will not be any different.
It is not that all these people can not run for 30 mts at 13 but If you put HR monitor the heart-rate invariably shoots to 180 -190 after 5 minutes or so and people need to reduce to come down to around 160. So in fact there are very very few people who have stamina and don't get exherted.

True

Amit,

To be honest, I'm very surprised. Either I'm a pro athlete, which I well and truly believe I'm not, or the numbers seem to be a big issue here.

I will list out what I am for the benefit of everyone participating in this discussion. On weekends, I've cycled long distances (about 150 Kms a day) when I used to live in Pune as a part of touring. I've also done long distance motorcycle rides, of about 800 Kms per day, multiple days on the boring slabs. All this was prior to 2013, to give a background from where I began. Stats. Height 5'7". Weight about 69-70 Kilograms. Age: 26

On 1st January 2013, I felt that I need to start some exercise regimen as I was getting some adipose around my waist. My face had also become chubbier. So, as a part of my new year resolution, I began running on the treadmill, cycling and doing the cross fit.

Day 1: I did about 1.5 Km at 8 Kph. Last meal was at night and promptly, I felt like bonking. Next day, I had a couple of bananas in the morning and I didn't bonk the same distance. Like this I slowly started increasing speed each week as I have described in my earlier posts.

All along, my gym instructors were pushing me to do weights, etc, but i wasn't interested. My friends have always advocated body weight exercises and I also went with their advice as my goal wasn't muscles in the first place. I wanted strength, plain and simple. I wanted to run well and give my heart a work out. So, I simply didn't bother for a week or so.

Then I began push ups. I have done push ups at school. So, it was easy. I stopped doing the cross trainer once I began push ups since I was losing about 400 calories a day from my daily regimen. I began with 6 days a week.

After a couple of weeks, I added pull ups and chin ups. Chin ups I could do about 3 in the beginning. Pull ups 0.

Progressively, running became more and from there on I went easy on cycling. (I used to run and cycle equally when I began.)

So, doing 12-13 Kph for 30 mins is frankly not an issue. After this, the calisthenics are not an issue. Now, it it about 7 months since I joined and this includes some days of bunking gym due to travel and other engagements.

Weight: 62 Kilograms. I have lost about 8 kilograms in 7 months. I've never stopped eating less. In fact, I'm eating more. Now, I work out 4-5 days a week, 4 days mostly.

So, what I'm trying to put across is, I frankly find it very surprising that the 12 Kph-30 minute routine is made out to be a big deal. When an average person like me can do it, why can't others?

Now 8 Kph seems like a big joke and so does even 10 Kph. 13 Kph is where my optimum level for 30 mins is and I am slowly pushing to 15. Note: All this at 0 inclination. Basically my idea is to run 8 kms a day in 30 minutes so that I can save time on workout. I don't want others to get cross if I hog the treadmill.

Also, I do have friends who do run outdoors and many of them keep traveling around many cities for marathons. These people (normal guys like you and me) regularly manage to run about 15 Kph. They say, 12 Kph is not "running", it is jogging. And that too, outdoors, not indoors. So, I think practice is key rather than fancy instructors/instructions. My gym instructors are not certified. They have learnt through experience and my gym is not those new fangled Gold types. I pay 4K on a 6 month plan.

Also, running outdoors is definitely more challenging than running on the treadmill at 0 inclination. In fact, the heart rate barely goes up at 12 Kph if you breathe right. I use average shoes. My Pumas got stolen so I used Power shoes which are on their last legs. Need to buy new ones soon.

Please correct me if I'm wrong as I will once again check out my heart/pulse rate on the treadmill tomorrow. Last time I did it was about 150 on the mill during running at 12.5 Kph. This was on the treadmill's hand grips which read out some number.

I drink about 1-1.5 liters during workout in say 100 ml short sips from the cooler. I mean in between running, cycling and body weight workouts. Rest of the day I drink about 2-3 liters. Urine's been clear so far.

Finally, top long distance marathoneers don't do 12 Kph. They do 20 Kph.

Cheers,

Jay

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by alpha1

Sawyer - my point in bringing the genetic aspect was this:
Runners, black, have huge upper body compared to most other runners of other "races". People from other "races" have development in legs, but nowhere else.

Gymnast will have development in upper body because of the hours of training spend on upper body. But what about their lower bodies?

So my point was if you have genetics then even by sleeping you will get the muscular look. If you don't have it - then you do calisthenics, weightlifting, bodybuilding etc you will still fall below the average stocky human built.

So if you look back at my post, it was: if you expect "bhaag milkha / rambo" look from such training, go home and cry.

It isn't correct to generalise based on race. It isn't proven to be so in spite of many efforts by racists.

What is true is that across all races, there are different body types, the mesomorphs and so on. It is largely genetically determined. But here too, genetics is used as an excuse to not put in the slog. Genetic limits will kick in, for sure, but for most people, they are far, far away from coming anywhere close to these limits. People with inherited small frames have two choices. Use that as an excuse, or put in the effort to build whatever aspect of fitness they would like to. Yes, they will have to work harder than genetically more gifted peers, and may never reach Oly athlete levels, but that isn't a valid reason to straight away give up, blaming your parents, your race, or whatever else.

Btw, the next time there is an Oly event on TV, take a look at their legs. Always developed in proportion to the upper body, but the outfit they wear may prevent you from noticing. Try thinking of the floor exercise routines without leg strength.

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by JayPrashanth

Amit,

. On weekends, I've cycled long distances (about 150 Kms a day) when I used to live in Pune as a part of touring.
. Stats. Height 5'7". Weight about 69-70 Kilograms. Age: 26

So you have some head-start in terms of sustained physical activity for prolonged period that is 150 Km a day cycling is not what an average fit urban
Indian does and this counts.

We are not discussing if it is big issue for you or not. The guy who asked the question is able to run for 5 minutes on treadmill at speed of 8. So his cardiac fitness level is of an average joe and probably he has never trained before in any form. It may be an big issue for the person in question is all I am trying to convey.

For 80% of urban gymmers who do some exercise it is a big big deal as their cardio vesicular system is never trained for prolonged activity. If you don't believe me just ask the person who does TMT test for annual check-ups in your company.

I never said 30 minutes at 13 Kmph is difficult if I can do at 38 so must be easy for you at 26 specially if you have a head start but for 80% of urban people who have good muscles there is no history of sustained cardiac activity and that is a problem. I have seen people with really good bodies who can not run for more then 10 minutes at moderate speed.

Originally Posted by JayPrashanth

So, what I'm trying to put across is, I frankly find it very surprising that the 12 Kph-30 minute routine is made out to be a big deal. When an average person like me can do it, why can't others?

It all depends on what is normal for you, I have seen school kids in uttarakhand who go from one village to school in next 5-6 km away crossing steep mountains and valleys daily on the kind of slopes where auto-mobile engines whine and they do other activities as well whereas this becomes an achievement for "trekkers" from rest of India.

Originally Posted by JayPrashanth

Now 8 Kph seems like a big joke and so does even 10 Kph. 13 Kph is where my optimum level for 30 mins is and I am slowly pushing to 15. Note: All this at 0 inclination. Basically my idea is to run 8 kms a day in 30 minutes so that I can save time on workout. I don't want others to get cross if I hog the treadmill.

What can I say this is excellent response but watch out better invest in a chest strap HR monitor and join a gym where hogging treadmill is not an issue.
Do not push sustained activity beyond the max HR.

Originally Posted by JayPrashanth

Also, I do have friends who do run outdoors and many of them keep traveling around many cities for marathons. These people (normal guys like you and me) regularly manage to run about 15 Kph. They say, 12 Kph is not "running", it is jogging. And that too, outdoors, not indoors. So, I think practice is key rather than fancy instructors/instructions.
Finally, top long distance marathoneers don't do 12 Kph. They do 20 Kph.

Cheers,

Jay

Well till now all the treadmills in various gyms I have seen have top speed as 15 and as per the web resources 12 - 15 is what people do for prolonged period in marathon with burst of speed in between.

[comfortablynumb]

Originally Posted by shashank.nk

Kindly excuse this rather noobish question,but i'd love to hear what the experienced guys here think.

If you haven't already done so, I would strongly advocate starting a regimen of Hindu Pushups [also called "Dand" in Hindi]. They are great for building strength without using weights. Just search for "Hindu pushups" on Youtube and you'll find hundreds of videos showing the correct way of doing them.

Cheers,
Vikram

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by comfortablynumb

If you haven't already done so, I would strongly advocate starting a regimen of Hindu Pushups [also called "Dand" in Hindi]. They are great for building strength without using weights.

I have mixed feelings about these, and the associate baithaks. A few years ago, I started this regime, and I had move up to 200 pushups and 500 baithaks, done continuously. Great for endurance and cardio - the baithaks will have you sweating profusely and panting away in a very short while, if you do them rapidly as they are supposed to be done. Way more intense than running. But I didn't gain noticeable strength.
On the other hand, Indian wrestlers have used these for ages, and it seems to work for them. But they do each for even higher reps - maybe 500/2000. And then drink lots of thandai, milk, and sleep for a long time!
But one can build a lot of strength without using weights, that's for sure. Just bodyweight. As the gymnasts do. For pure strength, here is one classic - a handstand press up, even leaning against the wall for balance. Progress to that, and you will have exceptional upper body strength.

[AbhishekB86]

Originally Posted by JayPrashanth

Amit,

To be honest, I'm very surprised. Either I'm a pro athlete, which I well and truly believe I'm not, or the numbers seem to be a big issue here.

I will list out what I am for the benefit of everyone participating in this discussion. On weekends, I've cycled long distances (about 150 Kms a day) when I used to live in Pune as a part of touring. I've also done long distance motorcycle rides, of about 800 Kms per day, multiple days on the boring slabs. All this was prior to 2013, to give a background from where I began. Stats. Height 5'7". Weight about 69-70 Kilograms. Age: 26

On 1st January 2013, I felt that I need to start some exercise regimen as I was getting some adipose around my waist. My face had also become chubbier. So, as a part of my new year resolution, I began running on the treadmill, cycling and doing the cross fit.

Day 1: I did about 1.5 Km at 8 Kph. Last meal was at night and promptly, I felt like bonking. Next day, I had a couple of bananas in the morning and I didn't bonk the same distance. Like this I slowly started increasing speed each week as I have described in my earlier posts.

All along, my gym instructors were pushing me to do weights, etc, but i wasn't interested. My friends have always advocated body weight exercises and I also went with their advice as my goal wasn't muscles in the first place. I wanted strength, plain and simple. I wanted to run well and give my heart a work out. So, I simply didn't bother for a week or so.

Then I began push ups. I have done push ups at school. So, it was easy. I stopped doing the cross trainer once I began push ups since I was losing about 400 calories a day from my daily regimen. I began with 6 days a week.

After a couple of weeks, I added pull ups and chin ups. Chin ups I could do about 3 in the beginning. Pull ups 0.

Progressively, running became more and from there on I went easy on cycling. (I used to run and cycle equally when I began.)



So, what I'm trying to put across is, I frankly find it very surprising that the 12 Kph-30 minute routine is made out to be a big deal. When an average person like me can do it, why can't others?

Now 8 Kph seems like a big joke and so does even 10 Kph. 13 Kph is where my optimum level for 30 mins is and I am slowly pushing to 15. Note: All this at 0 inclination. Basically my idea is to run 8 kms a day in 30 minutes so that I can save time on workout. I don't want others to get cross if I hog the treadmill.



Also, running outdoors is definitely more challenging than running on the treadmill at 0 inclination. In fact, the heart rate barely goes up at 12 Kph if you breathe right. I use average shoes. My Pumas got stolen so I used Power shoes which are on their last legs. Need to buy new ones soon.



Finally, top long distance marathoneers don't do 12 Kph. They do 20 Kph.

Cheers,

Jay

Jay, for the sake of routine let's not get mixed up. I can do 40 push ups without a pause but that doesn't become average for every gym goer. I could look at a runner and wonder why he can't manage more than 4 when an average guy like me can do 40 without a pause. I may also find it amusing his incapacity to lift and find it surprising but I do not.

Now I've done all the things you've mentioned above except cycling. I started off as a runner and not in a gym but outdoors. I ran outside for about 3 years and could do about 8-10 kms daily and no I do not know my speeds because I didn't have an access to the gym.

In my head I was a super athelete till I was introduced to Yoga. The posture of the regulars and the flexibility was way better than mine.

Then I ran some more outdoors sometimes twice a day and came down from over 100 to 69. Btw I am a just a year older than you are.

I joined the gym and realized even running alone doesn't serve the purpose. My legs were soon showing symptoms of the abuse handed out to them on a daily basis and the knee area was prone to injury. I then got into lifting and although I've been slacking lately the results are there to see. I have never been stronger and my legs aren't giving me any trouble now.

If you do take a break from running i.e. an extended one like I did due to injury, you will realize that your speeds will be affected. Your rhythm will go out the window and you will be prone to injury.

Again maintaining a fitness regime unless a holistic one can be vunerable to exposure. Even the best of runners who have a fab body and can do weight training can be put to shame by the Yoga folk. I'm not saying I'm either of them but if you ever go to a yoga place, you'll see the young bloods go down first and the regular folk who look sedentary flexible and more agile than usual fitness fanatics.

[JayPrashanth]

Originally Posted by AbhishekB86

Jay, for the sake of routine let's not get mixed up. I can do 40 push ups without a pause but that doesn't become average for every gym goer. I could look at a runner and wonder why he can't manage more than 4 when an average guy like me can do 40 without a pause. I may also find it amusing his incapacity to lift and find it surprising but I do not.

Abhishek,

I'm sorry, but I don't get your point. Please explain.

Cheers,

Jay

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by JayPrashanth

I'm sorry, but I don't get your point. Please explain.

Hmm, there might be a way out of this confusion. How long have you been working out, and how many injury cycles you have lived through?

[Sawyer]

I don't know how I missed the example of Sushil Kumar, when discussing race and Indian wrestlers. All functional strength and power, gained from a lot of functional training, I am sure. And yet he has a superb physique as well, not the traditional Indian wrestler one - and he isn't African!

It would be interesting to know what his training other than wrestling practice looks like, and how much of a role Dand/Baithaks play in it.

[krish3]

Guys, any reviews on Core Fitness centres in Bangalore?

Do they really have the expertise that they claim to have, which involves boot camps, crossfitness etc ?

[amitoj]

Good or bad, i dont know but there is a drug being tested that has the potential of making gyms redundant:

http://www.gizmag.com/scripps-drug-s...e-mimic/28651/

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

It isn't correct to generalise based on race. It isn't proven to be so in spite of many efforts by racists.

What is true is that across all races, there are different body types, the mesomorphs and so on. It is largely genetically determined. But here too, genetics is used as an excuse to not put in the slog. Genetic limits will kick in, for sure, but for most people, they are far, far away from coming anywhere close to these limits. People with inherited small frames have two choices. Use that as an excuse, or put in the effort to build whatever aspect of fitness they would like to. Yes, they will have to work harder than genetically more gifted peers, and may never reach Oly athlete levels, but that isn't a valid reason to straight away give up, blaming your parents, your race, or whatever else.

Btw, the next time there is an Oly event on TV, take a look at their legs. Always developed in proportion to the upper body, but the outfit they wear may prevent you from noticing. Try thinking of the floor exercise routines without leg strength.

I do not like the term proportion. It is very subjective.
I prefer the term developed.
And Indian sprinter's (as well as Gora sprinters too) upper body is not as developed as the black sprinter's upper body
That was my point.

Originally Posted by Sawyer

I don't know how I missed the example of Sushil Kumar, when discussing race and Indian wrestlers. All functional strength and power, gained from a lot of functional training, I am sure. And yet he has a superb physique as well, not the traditional Indian wrestler one - and he isn't African!

It would be interesting to know what his training other than wrestling practice looks like, and how much of a role Dand/Baithaks play in it.

Perhaps I can offer a better explanation.
Genes.
?

Looks like you have never faced the misfortune and frustration of someone performing much better than you in sports or getting far ahead on you in physique department (I have faced both in different times) - in spite of their ultra lackadaisical attitude towards training, nutrition and rest and total casualness towards performance and competitiveness.

And genetics does not only means difference in races.
It means inherent difference between two human beings, perhaps from the same race, and also perhaps from the same parent.


No one is sobbing about their poor genetics here, we are just trying to save people from harboring unrealistic expectation from either calisthenics or weightlifting or bodybuilding or powerlifting or swimming/running/gymnastics or other "functional" trainings etc

Originally Posted by amitoj

Good or bad, i dont know but there is a drug being tested that has the potential of making gyms redundant:

http://www.gizmag.com/scripps-drug-s...e-mimic/28651/

If the claims are true then this is simply great.
Body's basal metabolism is one big thing that makes a person ripped, and another a ball of lard.