[mandheers]

Originally Posted by amitk26

Probably yes I do know and I suppose all of us here have some basic education so that we can read and understand what it is about even in case we do not know.


And who exactly is average gym goer ? Any urban gym today has mix of people right from obese home-makers to teenage guys wanting to bulk up to
people in late 30s trying to train for full marathon.

To give my personal example few months back I was able to do 10K run and whatever training I did I was unable to go beyond. However today after 6 - 8 months or so I can easily complete half marathon. Cross training to build gluts , hamstrings , lower back and abdominal muscles have helped.
Many people would say that can be done without cross training but earlier a serious long run meant sore muscles and next day of rest for me however now there is no serious impact. I haven't tries full Marathon yet.



Well yes I don't imagine the guys to be there so they are real and not imaginary.
However crossfit is a brand name from a fitness company in US , Similar ones are there from Les Mills and others as well.

Coming back to cross training. Is there any particular reason why bodyweight exercise and suspension exercises with TRX can not be used for cross training ?

Is it necessary that everyone flips tyres and whips ropes to cross train just because it was shown in Mary Kom and Bhag Milkha Bhag

I really don't understand what is the chip on your shoulder but I have no desire whatsoever to see anyone on steroids.

About level of professionals available I believe a gym chain which runs more then 540 clubs across the world and Les Mills programs for many decades should have enough professional trainers.

Hey, first off- my apologies if I sounded off there.
Guess I'm at fault for the choice of words and not doing a 'preview post'.
Read my own post and seemed a bit rude.

So, I stand corrected, of course people have basic education etc., so plz do not misconstrue my post.

And hey, no chip on my shoulder at all.

I tried explaining your reference to 'panting'; it's dependant on what is the sport the guy/girl is pursuing which determines whether or not her will pant.

You are a long distance runner; I did not give you the benefit of doubt; so I stand corrected on my question of whether you know about cross-training.

My only grouse is ppl tend to throw jargon and that's courtesy the gym owners and folk who popularize fad over function.
Weights training or circuits or TRX for you would classify as cross training and will help coz it will target the entire body to fire on all cylinders, more than just running and yes it will strengthen.

Any exercise can be used to cross-train, bodyweight, TRX, machines, barbell training, anything.

Mary Kom and Bhag Milkha only show the fad parts, to show the ferocity and velocity of training they have to show such explosive movements. I'm not saying they don't help, but the purpose if not building but conditioning.

Which gym is this you referring to? Sure if you believe they are good, then they are good enough.

My reference to Crossfit was also coz most of them perform Olympic lifts and are jacked/shredded as hell.
If you get what I'm trying to say again.

[Piyadassi]

Originally Posted by bluevolt

But when I see regular gym goers with salman type biceps, I feel I should take plunge into regular gym schedule. Thing is that I am vegeterian, will avoid eggs also(though I have consumed them for a while in the past). I also will never go for any kind of supplements. So how to get that natural protein supply except from milk, dals and soyabeans which I consume anyhow. Eating eggs necessary? They are not banned in my family but i prefer to avoid eating them.

So what's the way out for vegeterian fitness freaks? What basic exercises are recommended for me? I am a tread-mill freak!

Do take the plunge. You will relish every moment of it.

Just remember supplements are not bad, but they should be used for what they are... to supplement the macros what you won't otherwise get. They are all made from natural sources, like Horlicks or Bournvita and have side effects similar to what when you consume excess carbs or protein.

Try to get all your macros from natural sources. The only problem is protein. Unfortunately all veg things high is protein are also high in carbs... that's one area you should be particular about but it is not altogether impossible. Start weight training, keep eating and analyze your diet after 6 months or so. You will be in a better position to do it.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding discussion on Steroids. My work is keeping me so busy that I am missing contributing to it but guys, since I workout at home and as a result am out of the trends, it has been quite enlightening.

I had once read about Hritik. It was Kris Gethin who was speaking. When he had contacted him before the shoot of Krish he had herniated disk, was smoking heavily, and if I remember correctly, was also overweight, the kind of description that one would hardly associate with Hritik's physique.

[Octane_Power]

Originally Posted by bluevolt

So what's the way out for vegeterian fitness freaks? What basic exercises are recommended for me? I am a tread-mill freak!

+1 to your condition brother. Even I used to consume eggs earlier. A few months back when I used to workout everyday, I used to have 8-10/day. But then due to exams I left gyming and am again contemplating to start it and build a good summer body in this winter

However, this time I am not going to have eggs. A complete vegetarian diet is what I'm going to follow. See, it is not that there aren't any vegetarian bodybuilders out there. There are many. And some are even stronger than their non-veg eating counterparts.

Eg. Frank Medrano, google this guy's videos if you don't know about him, and he is a vegan bodybuilder, so not even milk or tofu or anything.

2nd is India's numero uno bodybuilder Mr. Varinder Singh Ghuman! 6'4, giant as a mammoth and complete vegetarian. When asked about why does he follow a vegetarian diet he answered "The strongest animal in the world is vegetarian as well"

Another example which I have seen in front of my eyes is that of a very close friend. Was as lean as I am with an ecto-mesomorph type of body, started Crossfit and with normal 'ghar ka khana' and pure veg diet and in a year or so became strong as Hercules. Last I saw him squat, lift and move an entire Brio which was blocking other cars' way in his building compound.

I believe, workout hard like hell and eat alot of veggies, fruits, dry fruits, pulses, and Tofu, Paneer, Soyabean(don't under-estimate these sources of proteins at all). You will see the change in your body definitely.

Let me know, if you build any specific plan which you will follow.

-Bhargav

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by bluevolt

EGuys I am a newbie to fitness world. I have a lean frame. Neither fat nor thin. Somewhat like Tim Robbins in shawshank redemption But when I see regular gym goers with salman type biceps, I feel I should take plunge into regular gym schedule. Thing is that I am vegeterian, will avoid eggs also(though I have consumed them for a while in the past). I also will never go for any kind of supplements. So how to get that natural protein supply except from milk, dals and soyabeans which I consume anyhow. Eating eggs necessary? They are not banned in my family but i prefer to avoid eating them.

So what's the way out for vegeterian fitness freaks? What basic exercises are recommended for me? I am a tread-mill freak!

I don't really know what is really in your mind but a few things:
1. Which regular gym goer you see with Salman biceps??? ??? (The extra questions denote my amazement rather than inquisitiveness)
2. Everyone is unique. You may never become Salman Khan. Or Akshay Kumar. Or even the gym goer you are insipired from.
3. As with everything in life, you have to be scientific in your attitude if you don't want to be taken for a ride. Someone tells you need non veg for proteins? Simple check your performance before non veg, and after non veg, keeping everything else same in life. Someone recommend X brand of protein, check your physique before powder and after powder.
4. Do you lift weights? In case you don't please first start the iron work, before thinking about these minutiae.
5. Fitness is not equal to big muscles. You can have big muscles and be really fit, but both are mutually exclusive. Big muscles is mostly genetics. And some chemical help. Fitness is mainly internal condition of your organs/tissues.
6. You can be muscular and strong, but this comes with baggage of being fat. How much fat is again genetic. Can be altered via chemicals

If you are still attracted to the Salman look, please check out what I had posted in another forum and bring yourself back to earth:
https://www.techenclave.com/communit...8#post-1990237
Will take about 2-3 minutes.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Octane_Power

2nd is India's numero uno bodybuilder Mr. Varinder Singh Ghuman! 6'4, giant as a mammoth and complete vegetarian. When asked about why does he follow a vegetarian diet he answered "The strongest animal in the world is vegetarian as well"

Well, elephant has genetics on its side. You can't use that as example. BTW, did he get those muscles eating normal food?

Originally Posted by alpha1

If you are still attracted to the Salman look, please check out what I had posted in another forum and bring yourself back to earth:
https://www.techenclave.com/communit...8#post-1990237
Will take about 2-3 minutes.

Thanks for the boat load of information. Just curious about the exception at the end. Since the age of 15, I was doing pushups everyday. Started from 5 a day, took 5 years to reach 100. I was doing just one set every day, until failure. Didn't know about multiple sets, no one to guide. I could do 120 a stretch by the time I graduated engg college. I was lean and my muscles were barely visible. It was exactly as you described. What does that mean for me now that I am 45? [Now I look more like Gama in the links you posted later ].

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Well, elephant has genetics on its side. You can't use that as example.

This is a good response. However, I believe Octane_Power posted it for a good cause: Bluevolt shouldn't fall into trap of more non veg, more protein to become Salman Khan.

Nevertheless, I don't understand why people give wrong examples to inspire/emulate. They say Hitler was a vegetarian, should I conclude that vegetarianism causes violence?

I see huge guys in akhadas who drink gallons of milk, eat only veg and dry fruits. Does it mean I will also get as huge and tall?

There are a lot of olympics lifters lifting heavy weights all the day, but are still scraggy, scrawny. Does it mean lifting weights makes one thin?

Bruce Lee was ripped, shredded and quite muscular. Does that mean martial arts training will make me look like him?

I was lean and my muscles were barely visible. It was exactly as you described. What does that mean for me now that I am 45? [Now I look more like Gama in the links you posted later ].

As one ages, the following things happen:
1. Metabolism slows down. Which means brains, kidneys, heart, lungs, etc start performing less, thereby consuming less calories. If my diet intake remains the same as teenage - I will put on fat.
(Contrary to what health expert, nutritionists and other idiots proclaim - increasing the muscles will improve the metabolism only by 13 kcal/day for each kg of muscle!)

2. Growth hormone production comes down. This means that the body's equilibrium starts shifting towards more death of existing cells and less growth of new cells. One can never have the growth rate in muscles as he could in preteens and teenage.

3. Testosterone production also lowers. This results in reduced strength and also reduced muscles.

This happens to everyone, even if he was Arnold Schwaxxx or Bruce Lee.

[amitk26]

Vidyut Jammwal is also vegetarian . I read he performs his stunts without using cables or body double and started his training in Kalaripayattu at age of 3. If this is true I am really impressed seeing his gravity defying flips and kicks in Commando.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by amitk26

Vidyut Jammwal is also vegetarian . I read he performs his stunts without using cables or body double and started his training in Kalaripayattu at age of 3. If this is true I am really impressed seeing his gravity defying flips and kicks in Commando.

I had no idea who this was, so I checked up some youtube videos. He is doing gymnastic showboating than fighting. Kalaripayattu training usually starts at 7-8 age, not sure what is the meaning of starting at 3. Bones are too soft at that age for any real training.

Watch videos of Fedor Emelianenko, probably the toughest MMA fighter, you can hardly see any muscle definition on him. Real fighting hardly has any fancy flying moves, that telegraphs the intent too early. I can't even imagine him flying off the ground to deliver a kick. When Andrei Arlovski tried a flying knee kick on him, Fedor KO-ed him in mid-flight.

Originally Posted by alpha1

2. Growth hormone production comes down. This means that the body's equilibrium starts shifting towards more death of existing cells and less growth of new cells. One can never have the growth rate in muscles as he could in preteens and teenage.

3. Testosterone production also lowers. This results in reduced strength and also reduced muscles.

Geez, I was hoping you will tell me that I have some beginner's advantage for starting so young. So much for my hope.

Anyway, I was reading about Gama after a long time. His diet kind of stunned me.

When he was vegetarian before 15, Gama was consuming twenty liters of milk, half a liter of clarified butter, 3/4 of a kilogram of butter, and four kilograms of fruit per day.

After he turned non-veg, he regularly consumed either six chickens or the extract of five kilograms of mutton mixed with a quarter pound of clarified butter, ten liters of milk along with half a liter more of clarified butter, about 3/4 of a kilogram of crushed almond paste made into a tonic drink, along with fruit juice and other things to promote good digestion.
Source:http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrar...2/IGH0402c.pdf

How does a guy who was 5'8" and 87kg handle this kind of diet everyday?

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Anyway, I was reading about Gama after a long time. His diet kind of stunned me.



How does a guy who was 5'8" and 87kg handle this kind of diet everyday?

Remember the article (very nice find!) also states:
Gama was born into a family of famous wrestlers from the Punjab in northwestern India
Superb genetics. Thats why large built, and that's why superb power of digestion. Of course the way he trained must've pushed the metabolism up the roof!


Starting at the age of ten, Gama’s daily exercise routine included not only five hundred bethaks, but five hundred dands as well. Most importantly, according to Barkat Ali, Gama regularly engaged in the hard exercise of pit digging, wherein the hardpacked earth of the wrestling arena is dug up and “turned” with a heavy hoe-like implement called a pharsa which can weigh as much as twenty or thirty kilograms
Goodness! I remember doing 200 kneebends (baithaks) as a challenge every other day in teenage. Resulted in voracious appetite and unbelievable soreness. Looks like I should start again!


He is said to have regularly done three thousand bethaks and fifteen hundred dands and run one mile every day with a 120 pound stone ring around his neck.

Gama’s regimen was increased to five thousand bethaks and three thousand dands. Every morning he would also work out by wrestling with forty compatriot wrestlers in the royal court. Added to this, he began weight-lifting with a one hundred pound grind stone and a santola (wooden bar-bell made from a tree trunk).
I am sure his workout must've lasted HOURS.
Hours doing high intensity exercises.
Surely his caloric requirement would be 3-4 times a normal guy.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by alpha1

Remember the article (very nice find!) also states:

I originally read this back in 2002, when I got into Matt Furey's combat conditioning. I had also bought his Gama Fitness program.

Originally Posted by alpha1

Gama was born into a family of famous wrestlers from the Punjab in northwestern India
Superb genetics.

Until the end of 18th century, my ancestors too were warriors. But not after British took control. I hope I too have some trickle down genes from that time.

Originally Posted by alpha1

Thats why large built, and that's why superb power of digestion. Of course the way he trained must've pushed the metabolism up the roof!

He was my size, 5'8" and 87 kgs. His metabolism is just crazy.

Regarding the diet, I am a bit skeptical about those claims. Can anyone drink 20 liters of milk in a day? These figures must be exaggerated to some extent.

But I am not skeptical about the number of dands and bethaks. It is possible to do so many if one is used to it. Say 30 sets of 100 reps each.

My silambam instructor used to tell me that old time soldiers could fight whole day in battles. But he never understood how did they lasted so long. He hails from a family whose ancestry goes back to Vijayanagara soldiers. He was taught by his grandfather, who in turn learned from his, etc. However, if you look at Gama's workout routine, it gives a clue. A guy who can do that can last a whole day. Wrestling is really intense sport, I usually go out of breath after couple minutes. But Gama had fought 3 hour bouts at the highest level.

[mandheers]

Originally Posted by amitk26

Vidyut Jammwal is also vegetarian . I read he performs his stunts without using cables or body double and started his training in Kalaripayattu at age of 3. If this is true I am really impressed seeing his gravity defying flips and kicks in Commando.

He is good at acrobatics, have seen him perform. He is also trained in martial arts and used to run/promote women's self defense classes.
The only thing that sets him apart if his physique, which is again steroid/chemical infused - but then again, it's his profession; but equates the 'being vegetarian' bit.

Similar or even better stunts and work is done by the real stunt guys of Bollywood, but they are not or never ever built like the protagonists.

Akshay Kumar's double is a parkour specialist and martial artist, he is leaner than Akshay but his single punch or kick can knock anyone unconscious.

Salman's double is a much younger foreigner, who incidentally all knows parkour and is far more lithe compared to Salman.

While Akshay uses cheat shots to throw his double in, Salman uses VFX to morph his face on the double for full frontal action scenes.

I have trained around Jackie Shroff's son, Tiger Shroff, and the stuff he does for warmup alone is what will put Vidyut to shame.

To each his own I guess.

Originally Posted by Samurai

I had no idea who this was, so I checked up some Youtube videos. He is doing gymnastic showboating than fighting. Kalaripayattu training usually starts at 7-8 age, not sure what is the meaning of starting at 3. Bones are too soft at that age for any real training.

Watch videos of Fedor Emelianenko, probably the toughest MMA fighter, you can hardly see any muscle definition on him. Real fighting hardly has any fancy flying moves, that telegraphs the intent too early. I can't even imagine him flying off the ground to deliver a kick. When Andrei Arlovski tried a flying knee kick on him, Fedor KO-ed him in mid-flight.

Geez, I was hoping you will tell me that I have some beginner's advantage for starting so young. So much for my hope.

Anyway, I was reading about Gama after a long time. His diet kind of stunned me.



How does a guy who was 5'8" and 87kg handle this kind of diet everyday?

I guess genetics contribute a lot to both appetite and digestion.
Add to that the daily drill and the fact he did that for a living, I guess it could be close, but buffered yes for the aura.

Originally Posted by alpha1

Remember the article (very nice find!) also states:
Gama was born into a family of famous wrestlers from the Punjab in northwestern India
Superb genetics. Thats why large built, and that's why superb power of digestion. Of course the way he trained must've pushed the metabolism up the roof!


Starting at the age of ten, Gama’s daily exercise routine included not only five hundred bethaks, but five hundred dands as well. Most importantly, according to Barkat Ali, Gama regularly engaged in the hard exercise of pit digging, wherein the hardpacked earth of the wrestling arena is dug up and “turned” with a heavy hoe-like implement called a pharsa which can weigh as much as twenty or thirty kilograms
Goodness! I remember doing 200 kneebends (baithaks) as a challenge every other day in teenage. Resulted in voracious appetite and unbelievable soreness. Looks like I should start again!


He is said to have regularly done three thousand bethaks and fifteen hundred dands and run one mile every day with a 120 pound stone ring around his neck.

Gama’s regimen was increased to five thousand bethaks and three thousand dands. Every morning he would also work out by wrestling with forty compatriot wrestlers in the royal court. Added to this, he began weight-lifting with a one hundred pound grind stone and a santola (wooden bar-bell made from a tree trunk).
I am sure his workout must've lasted HOURS.
Hours doing high intensity exercises.
Surely his caloric requirement would be 3-4 times a normal guy.

Starting out at Akharas I have seen newbies put through paces with 500 baithaks to start with, from Day 1.
Veterans would do few sets of 500 and this would be after a run around with the akhara lot.
Topped with a litre or two of milk, with kilos of Jalebis thrown in on special occasions. Lassi is a staple too, so is Butter, Ghee and Paneer - oodles of it all.
Fruits are a staple and so is Poori Sabji/Bhaji with loads of Curd and Cut Salads (Carrots, Cucumbers, Onions).
They drink glassfuls of Dal. (Pulses/Lentils)
Barley water is another staple.
Dry Fruits were taken by the fistful, but for seniors; Peanuts for newbies.
Up North we also had a desi preparation called Sattu - made of a Chana/Gram concoction.
Chyawanprash and Honey also staples, again washed down with Milk.
Sweets and Laddus were consumed by the Kilo; Halwa, Milk Barfis and Besan Laddus specially.
After the morning rigor many of the younger lot would work at the Akhara during the day for digging/mending/cooking etc work.
Night used to be sparse back then, with most people turning up mornings; the working lot were the ones who came evenings.

Rarely come across an akhara which had Non-Veg, whoever ate was on the sly.
Even the weights were quite a lot similar to the Atta Chakkis; of stone, and very rarely any metal plates until later.
That's about all I recall, and it was tiring as hell the few months I did in total.

[Octane_Power]

Originally Posted by alpha1

I don't really know what is really in your mind but a few things:

I read your post which you posted in the other forum as well. I don't mean to sound contradicting, its just for my knowledge that I'm asking: Is it really so that a ripped body with good amount of muscular mass is impossible to build without using steroids? I mean, is this rule so strict that every other celeb/bodybuilder/street workout guy out there who has muscles + is ripped has consumed steroids?

What about the new guy Sidharth Malhotra? He is quite muscular with abs and a good chiseled body. Tiger Shroff, Vidyut Jamwal?

Again, asking for my knowledge. Don't mean to sound rude.

Originally Posted by mandheers

I have trained around Jackie Shroff's son, Tiger Shroff, and the stuff he does for warmup alone is what will put Vidyut to shame.

Since you have mentioned this. Is he on roids? I really admire his and Vidyut's body. Both can perform insane stunts/flips etc. Okay, I know Tiger is better, all his action scenes and stunts in his film were all real without using any cables. Arguably the best body in Bollywood today with that level of agility and strength. Even Vidyut's stunts are without cables, but Tiger is in a league of his own.

Its quite easy to infer if the actor is using cables for a particular stunt or not. Look at his fist, if it is closed and looks like he's gripping some imaginary rope/cable. The cable is then processed and removed out from the actual clip and what remains is the closed fist.

-Bhargav

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by mandheers

That's about all I recall, and it was tiring as hell the few months I did in total.

What about the results?
I am talking about everything not just the physique aspect, but agility, appetite, conditioning, mood, etc

Originally Posted by Octane_Power

I read your post which you posted in the other forum as well. I don't mean to sound contradicting, its just for my knowledge that I'm asking: Is it really so that a ripped body with good amount of muscular mass is impossible to build without using steroids? I mean, is this rule so strict that every other celeb/bodybuilder/street workout guy out there who has muscles + is ripped has consumed steroids?

Why should I construe this question as rude?
High muscles and low fat do not go hand in hand.
This applies to every natural.

Now the issue that we may have is that someone you construe as muscular would perhaps be very less muscular. Just that he has low body fat, and you can see 4 pack or 6 pack and slight capped look deltoids and therefore your mind sees him as muscular. This look is quite possible, but you must have genetic ability to achieve this. (And you would in most likelihood be like this in your teenage if you have those genes).

The magazine look is pure steroids. If you want to know. Anyone on the cover of magazine is (or knows) a chemistry wizard.
If you have a friend or a friend of friend who sports the cover page look, even he knows the secret.


Also something more to ponder about.
Check up the athletes from pre-WW2 years in all disciplines. Check up the athletes of today.
Do you see a huge difference in the average physique?

[Samurai]

You don't have to look to earlier era. Consider the physique of screen fighters vs real fighting legends. While screen fighters are very muscular, the real fighters aren't.

This is Royce Gracie, one of the greatest MMA fighters. He is only 80Kgs, but he routinely beat opponents who were 30-40Kgs heavier than him. Check out his physique.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by Samurai

This is Royce Gracie ... Check out his physique.

Boy, you have really shattered so many gym goers dreams