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Old 9th May 2021, 13:06   #4411
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Default Re: The Credit Card Thread

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Originally Posted by haridsv View Post
There is no way to avoid fee while using CC to recharge Paytm wallet. If you are looking for ways to make 4 txns of Rs.1500 each, then Amazon Pay is one option. I haven't come across any other wallet recharge that would accept Amex.
Multiple options available to load PayTM without charges. While I would want to disclose those, I would recieve a lot of flak from many credit card enthusiasts to putting it out in the open.

All I can suggest is look at apps which accept payment via PayTM wallet and u will find the answer.

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Originally Posted by binand View Post
How do you figure that? That people are saving 8-10% of expenditure over a year by using credit cards?

No doubt there is some benefit to be had by judiciously using the loyalty/reward system and free credit period; but (I can only speak for myself here) I believe it requires significant amount of planning and timing and brand loyalty all of which I don't want to indulge in.
Approx. Calculations of all the major cashbacks, gift vouchers, rewards points accumated and discounts against the total expenses on credit cards in a year.

Another simple way is knowing your credit card well.

If by brand loyalty, you mean you dont want to stick to a certain credit card, then you wont be able to make the most of credit cards.

I use a combination of the following credit cards:

1. HDFC Infinia (15-17% reward rate)
2. Amex MRCC (9-10% reward rate, used to be higher earlier)
3. Amex Gold Charge Card (9-10% reward rate)
4. Amex Platinum Charge Card (4-5% reward rate but loads of other intangible perks)
5. HSBC Visa Platinum (4% reward rate)

Have Standard Chartered Ultimate and Yes First Exclusive to but those dont fit in my CC usage strategy anymore.

The reward rates are what can be easily achieved once you have half decent knowledge. If you know how to combine rewards and / or use is ways that only about 1% crowd will use, you will get a much higher reward rate.
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Old 9th May 2021, 14:09   #4412
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Default Re: The Credit Card Thread

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Originally Posted by abhipuri View Post
Hi Guys,

Query to all CC users on the forum. Had purchased phone on HDFC debit card EMIs(in 2019, 1/6 EMIs bounced due to wrong account linking but the charges were immediately paid up in next installment). I had applied for Icici Amazon credit card card in Apr 2021 but my application got rejected (no reason mentioned on website). Any idea where I can check cancellation reason as no response is received from email id ?

I do not have a dying need for credit card but just wanted to have one for good credit history purposes. Currently using add on credit card issued on father's name.
In >95% cases, rejection of a credit card application is linked to low credit score or no credit history. You can also check your credit score for free from sites like Bankbazaar.com, credit mantri.com etc.,

My wife is a housewife and never had a loan or credit card in her name. So, I had put 20k FD in ICICI bank and took a secured credit card based on the FD. Once she used the card for a few years, now ICICI has given her a credit card without any guarantee or deposit.

I suggest you check and start building your credit score which is very useful now a days not just for credit cards, but in case you apply for any loans in future.
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Old 9th May 2021, 14:12   #4413
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Default Re: The Credit Card Thread

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Originally Posted by tejas08 View Post
I see a lot of people trying to show that people using credit cards are relying on debt to cover for their expenses. As a matter of fact, I know of a good amount of financial sound people using credit cards to their benefits and saving 8-10% of their total expenditure of the year by using credit cards..
Would you mind sharing how you arrived at this figure and what cards/strategy you are using? The savings of 8% looks irresistible to me. Till now, I hardly manage a savings of 1-2% from the reward points of various cards.
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Old 9th May 2021, 15:45   #4414
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Default Re: The Credit Card Thread

Amex MRCC had announced a bonus of 1000 points for spends made for more than 20k per calendar month. This was an enrolment based option and I had enrolled in it as soon as I saw the option.
But I have not received the bonus for the last 2 months. Anybody received this? I am getting the bonus 1000 points for the 4 transactions of 1500. This was supposed to be over and above that.
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Old 9th May 2021, 16:11   #4415
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Default Re: The Credit Card Thread

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Originally Posted by tejas08 View Post
If by brand loyalty, you mean you dont want to stick to a certain credit card, then you wont be able to make the most of credit cards.
No, I meant loyalty to certain brands to avail of credit card benefits. I had co-branded cards in mind (eg: I used to have a Jet Airways co-branded card with Citibank a long time back. The points were redeemable as tickets/vouchers on Jet Airways only, so to get any benefit out of that card I had to be brand-loyal to Jet. But when I was flying spending my own money other airlines invariably were cheaper or more convenient. It was such a pointless card that I requested and they replaced it with a Premier Miles card).

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Originally Posted by tejas08 View Post
Approx. Calculations of all the major cashbacks, gift vouchers, rewards points accumated and discounts against the total expenses on credit cards in a year.
Discounts and gift vouchers require you to spend more money, right? Reward points - usually 30-35p/point, and 1 point/Rs. 100 spent or something like that? Only cashback seems a genuine benefit but that too, iirc, is often tied to CC EMI schemes?

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Originally Posted by tejas08 View Post
I use a combination of the following credit cards:

1. HDFC Infinia (15-17% reward rate)
How do you arrive at 15-17% reward rate? I took a look here: https://www.hdfcbank.com/personal/pa...ia-credit-card - how are you calculating the reward? For me, it always works out that to get Rs. 100 reward, I have to spend about Rs. 500 more on things that I don't actually need (wanton consumerism which I detest).
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Old 9th May 2021, 17:15   #4416
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Default Re: The Credit Card Thread

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Originally Posted by click View Post
I suppose the quickest way is to get a Amazon ICICI card, i.e. if you plan to buy a lot from amazon and are ready to take the prime membership. As far as I know, they give the card to all prime members. I might be wrong and others can chip in, but I haven't heard about amazon card application being rejected. .
Unfortunately, plenty of people get rejected for the Amazon ICICI card. Just do a Google search and forums are full of people getting rejected despite having good income and credit score. Amazon Prime membership doesn’t help in any way. The card is issued by ICICI not Amazon.
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Old 9th May 2021, 17:22   #4417
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Default Re: The Credit Card Thread

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Originally Posted by haridsv View Post
I haven't come across any other wallet recharge that would accept Amex.
Freecharge too accepts Amex.
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Old 9th May 2021, 18:05   #4418
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Originally Posted by binand View Post
How do you arrive at 15-17% reward rate? I took a look here: https://www.hdfcbank.com/personal/pa...ia-credit-card - how are you calculating the reward? For me, it always works out that to get Rs. 100 reward, I have to spend about Rs. 500 more on things that I don't actually need (wanton consumerism which I detest).
Infinia's base reward rate is 3.3%. On top of this, you get bonus reward points on routing your spends via HDFC's smartbuy site. And with this bonus, the total rewards points ranges from 3x (10%) to sometimes even 15x (50%) - once you figure this out, it's easy to achieve the average 15% reward rate if your regular credit card spends are in the categories that the above website handles. Considering it has gift vouchers like Amazon pay at 10x (33%), you can route your routine monthly expenses e.g
mobile/internet recharge bills and even payments for services like swiggy done through the same to get 33% returns on your already existing spends.!
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Old 9th May 2021, 20:48   #4419
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Originally Posted by pvivek2 View Post
you can route your routine monthly expenses e.g
mobile/internet recharge bills and even payments for services like swiggy done through the same to get 33% returns on your already existing spends.!
So if I do all this, then every month I spend Rs. 1 lakh on my credit card I can expect Rs. 33,000 back?
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Old 9th May 2021, 20:57   #4420
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Default Re: The Credit Card Thread

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Originally Posted by binand View Post
So if I do all this, then every month I spend Rs. 1 lakh on my credit card I can expect Rs. 33,000 back?
Two things here - you'll get the returns as points, not cash outright. And 33% usually is tough to get on 100% of the expenses (considering you'll have spends outside smartbuy portal too). 10% is easily targetable and 15% once you get the hang of it, and the max cap is 15000 bonus points + regular 3.3% points every month.

The points can be used to redeem against travel/shopping etc. at re 1 per point. There was an option to convert points to cash back too, but haven't tried that out ever - since you'll get better value by using the other redemption options (like airline miles for e.g.).
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Old 9th May 2021, 21:56   #4421
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Default Re: The Credit Card Thread

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Originally Posted by binand View Post
So if I do all this, then every month I spend Rs. 1 lakh on my credit card I can expect Rs. 33,000 back?
There is a max cap on the additional points via smartbuy (i.e the 5x /3x schemes) - I think it is 15,000 points per month. So you hit the cap at a spend of 45K.
Post that one gets 3% reward points (5RP / 150 spend).

And given that for most of the reward point redemption are in the range of 0.3x to 0.5x. That translates to a 20% return rate in rupees if you spend 45K on categories that have the maximum rewards.
Post 45K spend, the actual conversion of rewards to rupees falls to 1.5% (and lesser).
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Old 9th May 2021, 22:30   #4422
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Default Re: The Credit Card Thread

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Originally Posted by pvivek2 View Post
Infinia's base reward rate is 3.3%. On top of this, you get bonus reward points on routing your spends via HDFC's smartbuy site. And with this bonus, the total rewards points ranges from 3x (10%) to sometimes even 15x (50%) - once you figure this out, it's easy to achieve the average 15% reward rate if your regular credit card spends are in the categories that the above website handles. Considering it has gift vouchers like Amazon pay at 10x (33%), you can route your routine monthly expenses e.g
mobile/internet recharge bills and even payments for services like swiggy done through the same to get 33% returns on your already existing spends.!
On Infinia, 1 point is equal to 1 Rupee only on flight and hotel bookings. For other vouchers, it's 1 point equal to 0.5 Rupee (best case for Dominos) or 1 point equal to .13 Rupee (worst case for Amazon/Flipkart/Big Basket). Isn't this worse than American Express also now?
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Old 9th May 2021, 23:39   #4423
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Originally Posted by sid_deb View Post
On Infinia, 1 point is equal to 1 Rupee only on flight and hotel bookings. For other vouchers, it's 1 point equal to 0.5 Rupee (best case for Dominos) or 1 point equal to .13 Rupee (worst case for Amazon/Flipkart/Big Basket). Isn't this worse than American Express also now?
Haven't used Amex, so don't know about that, but you're right - other than travel if you're going to spend this on something else, the redemption ratios are dismal. Better to convert to cash at 0.3 per point than a gift voucher.
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Old 10th May 2021, 00:17   #4424
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Originally Posted by Everlearner View Post
Would you mind sharing how you arrived at this figure and what cards/strategy you are using? The savings of 8% looks irresistible to me. Till now, I hardly manage a savings of 1-2% from the reward points of various cards.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shift...ml#post5059722 (The Credit Card Thread)

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Originally Posted by rajesh1868 View Post
Amex MRCC had announced a bonus of 1000 points for spends made for more than 20k per calendar month. This was an enrolment based option and I had enrolled in it as soon as I saw the option.
But I have not received the bonus for the last 2 months. Anybody received this? I am getting the bonus 1000 points for the 4 transactions of 1500. This was supposed to be over and above that.
The 1000 Bonus Points for the new 20,000 Rs. milestone will be credited at the end of the subsequent month. So the 1000 Bonus Points for the Month of April-2021 will be posted by end of May-2021.

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Originally Posted by binand View Post
No, I meant loyalty to certain brands to avail of credit card benefits. I had co-branded cards in mind (eg: I used to have a Jet Airways co-branded card with Citibank a long time back. The points were redeemable as tickets/vouchers on Jet Airways only, so to get any benefit out of that card I had to be brand-loyal to Jet. But when I was flying spending my own money other airlines invariably were cheaper or more convenient. It was such a pointless card that I requested and they replaced it with a Premier Miles card).
9 out of 10 people will never be able to get anything good out of co-branded cards. In fact, expanding the circle even further, 90% of the Credit card users never make anything good out of reward points due to the lack of knowledge about everything.

I listed my card in my earlier post. Just check. Not a single Co-Branded card in that list. Because I know I am not brand loyal and co-branded card makes no sense to me. All these Airline Co-branded cards were always an eye-wash for most business travellers. Most of the times, the bookings are done by company travel agents and when you book flights for personal travel vacations, you try to choose the cheaper options (Which you yourself observed too).

Citi Premier-Miles is a good card if you book Flight tickets regularly and at the same time understand the Air-Miles game. Else that card too wont give you any major returns.

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Originally Posted by binand View Post
Discounts and gift vouchers require you to spend more money, right? Reward points - usually 30-35p/point, and 1 point/Rs. 100 spent or something like that? Only cashback seems a genuine benefit but that too, iirc, is often tied to CC EMI schemes?
If you want better returns from Credit cards, you have to look at the premium or super-premium credit cards. The basic, LTF Credit cards that agents offer to salaried professionals on the pretext of special offer to employees of X or Y company are pretty useless.

Cashbacks or Instant Discounts are becoming a norm now. In fact, I am of the opinion that the Credit Card issuing Bank is hand and glove with the major Mobile Manufacturing Brands to increase their Credit Card sales. But if you don't own a credit card, you will end up paying more for the phone. I am not referring to EMI purchases. These are full payment purchases.

Take any launch from Samsung or Apple in the last two years. HDFC always has had an Instant discount from Pre-Order stage. Minimum 5-6K.

As a courtesy of HDFC Bank Credit card, I was able to pick up a Samsung S21 Ultra for 74,999 Rs. from Samsung Online Store three months back during a week long exclusive offer. Amazon Price is still about 84-85K with the best of the offers.

Many credit cards offer 1 Point = 1 Re Redemption rate. But most of the cards will always have an annual fee attached to it. So you have to understand if paying that fee makes sense. I have 4 cards with an Annual Fee. 2 of them get waived off on meeting the annual spends milestone.

HDFC Infinia and SCB Ultimate give 5 Points for every 150 Rs. Each point is worth 1 Re for certain redemption options.

ICICI Amazon Pay gives flat 5% cashback on almost all purchases from Amazon (For a Prime Member). Cashback is credited to the Amazon Pay account at the end of every month.

As far as spending more money goes, that is where Credit card companies make money. So if you are diligent in your spending, then you can beat them on their own game. Banks don't mind 2-3 people out of 100 customers beating them in their game. The rest are losing money always.

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Originally Posted by binand View Post
How do you arrive at 15-17% reward rate? I took a look here: https://www.hdfcbank.com/personal/pa...ia-credit-card - how are you calculating the reward? For me, it always works out that to get Rs. 100 reward, I have to spend about Rs. 500 more on things that I don't actually need (wanton consumerism which I detest).
Somebody already explained about HDFC Smartbuy Portal. Instant Vouchers for 100+ brands are available at 10X. So 5 Points per 150 Rs. on Infinia or DCB, becomes 50 Points per 150 Rs. So 50 Rs. back. That's 33.3% reward rate. Similarly, Flights and Hotel Bookings via HDFC's Smartbuy portal come under 10X. Amazon under 5X and Flipkart under 3X. So if the card is used well, 15-17% reward rate is possible.

The only catch is that the redemption rate of 1 Re per Reward Point is only for Flights & hotel bookings. But I am ok with it. We all take vacations right. Accumulate points and book flights or hotels for vacation.

Credit card companies make money through people who cant control their spending. Credit Card is a very powerful tool in the hand. Use it wisely and you will almost create a second source of income (A Rupee Saved is a Rupee Earned). Abuse it and you will lose money faster than you earn it.

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Originally Posted by binand View Post
So if I do all this, then every month I spend Rs. 1 lakh on my credit card I can expect Rs. 33,000 back?
The month capping of bonus Points (10X, 5X, 3X etc) has been reduced to 15,000 Bonus Points on Infinia and 7500 bonus points on Diners Club Black card.

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Originally Posted by whitewing View Post
There is a max cap on the additional points via smartbuy (i.e the 5x /3x schemes) - I think it is 15,000 points per month. So you hit the cap at a spend of 45K.
Post that one gets 3% reward points (5RP / 150 spend).

And given that for most of the reward point redemption are in the range of 0.3x to 0.5x. That translates to a 20% return rate in rupees if you spend 45K on categories that have the maximum rewards.
Post 45K spend, the actual conversion of rewards to rupees falls to 1.5% (and lesser).
The capping is for the bonus points. So if you do all 10X purchases, the Bonus points capping is hit at Rs. 50,100. For Amazon (5X), it is hit at Rs. 112,500

Quote:
Originally Posted by sid_deb View Post
On Infinia, 1 point is equal to 1 Rupee only on flight and hotel bookings. For other vouchers, it's 1 point equal to 0.5 Rupee (best case for Dominos) or 1 point equal to .13 Rupee (worst case for Amazon/Flipkart/Big Basket). Isn't this worse than American Express also now?
You are looking at the wrong place for Vouchers. Amazon Vouchers on HDFC Reward Points can be taken from two different places. Surprisingly, HDFC Bank has been cheeky with this. The netbanking route takes you to a portal which gives 1000 Rs. worth Amazon Vouchers for 6600 Reward Points. The HDFC Smartbuy Portal route gives you 1000 Rs. Amazon Vouchers for 2000 Reward Points.

So its definitely not worse than American Express. But I do value American express points highly too because of their versatility.

Phew! Been quite a while since I have typed this much.

Last edited by Aditya : 17th May 2021 at 05:23. Reason: Typos
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Old 10th May 2021, 09:05   #4425
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Default Re: The Credit Card Thread

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Originally Posted by tejas08 View Post
In fact, expanding the circle even further, 90% of the Credit card users never make anything good out of reward points due to the lack of knowledge about everything.
I suppose I am in this category. I don't chase reward points (in fact, I suppose most of what I get do go waste). Looking at what you've written, there is a world of difference between you and me: I take driving vacations or package vacations. I don't buy Apple or Samsung or any ultra highend mobile phones - certainly none that costs more than 50K. I don't shop on Flipkart. I am quite unwilling to commit to an annual spend threshold. All of these I believe are examples of wanton consumerism; I prefer saving to consuming.

But the Premier Miles usually is good enough for a return flight trip for my family from Bangalore to Kochi each year.

At the end of everything if the returns are limited to Rs. 15K per month I feel I can earn far more than that by spending the same amount of time on massaging my portfolio.

The only situation which might make me take a different view than above is if they applied a 15% discount at the end of the month at the time of statement generation itself.
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