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Old 13th January 2022, 23:36   #5086
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Re: The Credit Card Thread

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Originally Posted by SilentEngine View Post
This is very bad conversion value (15%). I assume you are converting from Netbanking.
If you convert points in Smartbuy portal, you get 35%. Example: Rs 5000 Amazon Pay Giftcard for 14,280 points, is what i usually convert.
Yes, smartbuy conversion is higher, as you said around 1:3.
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Old 14th January 2022, 00:22   #5087
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Re: The Credit Card Thread

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Originally Posted by SilentEngine View Post
This is very bad conversion value (15%). I assume you are converting from Netbanking.
If you convert points in Smartbuy portal, you get 35%. Example: Rs 5000 Amazon Pay Giftcard for 14,280 points, is what i usually convert.
So in best case scenario we are getting a 3% reward rate and that too with a limit of 5k worth of vouchers per month. I still donít see why people claim it is better than most cards? I recently bought an ipad Pro for 104500 on Amazon. There was a direct discount of 5% plus another discount of 730 odd on using the Amazon Pay ICICI card. Finally I got another 5200 in the 5% cashback for using that card. So a 6% cashback in actual cash like Amazon Pay balance and a 5% discount. Using the HDFC option I would need to add Amazon vouchers for years and the odd 10X deals are only for a few days when there might not be as good a discount available from Amazon. For example if I had to pay normal full price on that ipad, it would have been the same even after the 5x points. Here I can purchase whenever there is a good deal and there is no limit. I can buy a TV worth 5 lakhs and get 25k cashback plus whatever discount is running.

People using Infinia have to spend at least 8 lakhs for the fee waiver. So we can assume a spend of at least 10 lakhs per year. If I were to do this on my existing cards, we can assume 5 lakhs on Amazon where 3 lakhs are purchases that get me 15k cashback and 2 lakhs are payments that fetch me 2.5% meaning 5k cashback. Letís assume 4 lakhs are spent online using my Indusind Pinnacle where I get 2.5% actual cashback which translates to 10k. The rest 1 lakh is point of sale where I get 1% meaning 1k cashback even though there are ways of improving this like paying at restaurants via Dineout or Zomato where I get 10% extra on wallet loading and 10 to 50% off on the bill. So I would be getting a total cashback of around 31k or more with extra deals that are often available. If we assume a cashback of 50k then getting a free flight to Europe that people gush about is the same. I am not saying Infinia doesnít have value. Perhaps the person using it would have gotten 75k cashback but there are limits and various parameters to abide with.
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Old 14th January 2022, 00:51   #5088
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Re: The Credit Card Thread

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Originally Posted by Lobogris View Post
Since you are a renowned expert on credit cards in general and HDFC cards in particular, would you be kind enough to explain the Smartbuy system. For instance, which cards can benefit from it and how does the reward rate differ between Regalia, Infinia etc when it comes to Smartbuy? When people talk about purchasing 5k or 10k worth of Amazon vouchers each month, what kind of savings does that invoke on each HDFC variant and how much we have to spend beforehand to have the points available to purchase these 5k or 10k vouchers? It would be very useful if you could take the example of 10k Amazon voucher purchase on Smartbuy and explain what I would have to spend to have sufficient points available for it and what savings this voucher purchase would entail. Thanks in advance!
I hope the question is a genuine question and not more of sarcasm.

So here is the explanation that you are looking for:

Let me 1st list down, what all transactions can be done via Smartbuy:
  1. Flights
  2. Hotels
  3. Trains
  4. Buses
  5. Amazon
  6. Flipkart
  7. Instant Vouchers
List looks small, but the important details are under Instant Vouchers. Contrary to the understanding many of these Vouchers can be used offline as well as online:
  • Amazon (Can be loaded on Amazon Pay and used to pay Utility, Phone, Internet bills, Mobile recharges, Insurance Premiums etc.)
  • Flipkart (Can be loaded and used to buy Gold Coins)
  • Groceries (Big Bazaar, More, Reliance Smart apart from Amazon)
  • Clothing & Fashion Accessories (70+ Brands / Multi-Brand Stores)
There are other vouchers too, but not very useful for 9 out of 10 people and hence not listing them here.

So now that we know where all smartbuy can be useful, lets look at the reward rate of both Regalia and Infinia. The Smartbuy Rewards are different in both these cards. On Regalia, its cashback whereas on Infinia is Reward Points Multiplier.

Regalia - 5% Cashback upto a maximum of Rs. 2000 (So upto Rs. 40,000 Spends every month). Apart from this, you will earn 4 Points per Rs. 150. Consider the value per point anywhere between 0.25 Re to 0.5 Re depending on how you redeem. Nothing exceptional.

Infinia - 10X on Flights & Hotels; 5X on everything else via Smartbuy with a maximum cap of 15,000 Bonus Points per month. No capping on standard earning rate

Infinia gets 5 Points per 150 Rs. 10X means 50 Reward Points per Rs. 150 & 5X means 25 Reward Points per Rs. 150.

Spendings where you get Maximum Benefits of 10X spends - Rs. 50,100
Spendings where you get Maximum Benefits of 5X spends - Rs. 1,12,500

Value of each Reward Point:

Redemption against Flights / Hotel Bookings / Tanishq / Apple Vouchers - 1 Re.
Smartbuy Reward Rate - 16.67% to 33.33%
Caveat - If total amount is Rs. 100, Rs. 70 can be paid via Reward Points, Rs. 30 needs to be paid via Credit Card)

DTH Recharge (Only Tata Sky) - 1 Re.
Smartbuy Reward Rate - 16.67% to 33.33%

Redemption against Amazon Vouchers - 0.5 Re
Smartbuy Reward Rate - 8.33% to 16.67%
Other Vouchers too are available at the same conversion rate, but focusing on something that works as good as cash


Redemption against Statement Credit - 0.3 Re
Smartbuy Reward Rate - 5% to 10%


After having explained all the above, let me still add an example:

I buy Rs. 10,000 worth Amazon Vouchers every month without fail. I get 5X on it. 1650 Reward Points. Lets say you spend another 10K under any of the other Smartbuy Categories listed above. Thats another 1650 Points. So 3300 Points earned for spending Rs. 20,000 via Smartbuy. You can utilise 3000 Points next month itself to get 1500 Rs. worth Amazon Vouchers, or you can book a flight worth Rs. 4750 or above and utilise the complete 3300 Points to reduce equivalent number of Rs. from the flight cost.

I hope that long explanation helps. Would be happy to answer any further doubts you have on the above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chinkara View Post
In Regalia 660 points = Rs. 100 voucher. A spend of Rs. 50000 PM with say, 10,000 through smartbuy gives you approx 3.5 K points. Hope this helps.
Do not redeem via Netbanking.

Go to HDFC Smartbuy Page, Under Privileges you will find Regalia, Redeem Reward Points for Amazon Vouchers via this route, you will see a much better value per point here. Not sure why but HDFC has kept Amazon vouchers with two different values at two different locations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobogris View Post
Could you please explain what one can buy via Smartbuy apart from gift vouchers and travel? As per the calculation provided by you, if I get 3.5k points after spending 50k and and 6.6 points equal Rs 1 then it seems like I am getting a notional value of around Rs500 which seems like just 1% of the 50k spent and this is after 10k spend on Smartbuy. Am I calculating it wrong?
I think the above answered this query too.
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Old 14th January 2022, 01:05   #5089
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Re: The Credit Card Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobogris View Post
I recently bought an ipad Pro for 104500 on Amazon. There was a direct discount of 5% plus another discount of 730 odd on using the Amazon Pay ICICI card. Finally I got another 5200 in the 5% cashback for using that card. So a 6% cashback in actual cash like Amazon Pay balance and a 5% discount. Using the HDFC option I would need to add Amazon vouchers for years and the odd 10X deals are only for a few days when there might not be as good a discount available from Amazon. For example if I had to pay normal full price on that ipad, it would have been the same even after the 5x points. Here I can purchase whenever there is a good deal and there is no limit. I can buy a TV worth 5 lakhs and get 25k cashback plus whatever discount is running.
If you purchased that iPad Pro on Infinia, you would have got Rs. 8700 in terms of Amazon Vouchers or Rs. 17,400 worth reward points for Flight / Hotel Bookings or Tanishq Vouchers.

Two Things:

1. The calculations you are considering for Infinia are wrong
2. ICICI Amazon Pay gives 5% only for Purchases made on Amazon whereas Infinia's higher reward rate is across multiple categories / Merchants / Spend Types

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobogris View Post
The rest 1 lakh is point of sale where I get 1% meaning 1k cashback even though there are ways of improving this like paying at restaurants via Dineout or Zomato where I get 10% extra on wallet loading and 10 to 50% off on the bill. So I would be getting a total cashback of around 31k or more with extra deals that are often available. If we assume a cashback of 50k then getting a free flight to Europe that people gush about is the same. I am not saying Infinia doesn’t have value. Perhaps the person using it would have gotten 75k cashback but there are limits and various parameters to abide with.

Dineout again has additional 15% discount for using HDFC Cards in Dineout Pay over and above those 10 to 50% that the app already offers.

Rest if you still think ICICI APay card is good for you instead of Infinia, thats perfectly fine. Its a personal choice. But calling ICICI Amazon Pay Card better or equivalent to Infinia for everybody is not the right statement.

Last edited by tejas08 : 14th January 2022 at 01:12. Reason: Additional Quote
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Old 14th January 2022, 06:21   #5090
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Re: The Credit Card Thread

Guys, wanted a RuPay credit card in my portfolio. No compelling reason apart from national pride. Any suggestions please?

Have a bunch of other premium cards, so not looking for any specific benefits for this new card.
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Old 14th January 2022, 10:41   #5091
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Re: The Credit Card Thread

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Originally Posted by Lobogris View Post
There was a direct discount of 5% plus another discount of 730 odd on using the Amazon Pay ICICI card. Finally I got another 5200 in the 5% cashback for using that card.
I have excluded direct discounts etc.
I had taken an average spend of 50,000 including petrol (say 12 K), 10K on Amazon / Flipkart (some of it on Amazon fresh), and the rest actually on things like electricity bill, bigbasket, monthly shopping (I spend 10 K per month on my fishmonger) etc. Even with this profile (no special discounts on petrol or offline spreads) you earn 3.5 - 4k points.
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Old 14th January 2022, 11:32   #5092
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Re: The Credit Card Thread

Hi Tejas, thanks for explaining the details of Infinia and Regalia in detail. I have been using Regalia for last 7 years. Now my usage has considerably increased as I am paying some expenses (which are sizeable in nature). Can you let me know how does HDFC upgrade from Regalia to Infinia. My Regalia limit is shy of 5 lakhs, I have got IDFC card, which has a limit of 12.5 lakhs. Hence, I end up using it for making large payments. I will prefer to switch it to Infinia if I can get one.
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Old 14th January 2022, 12:25   #5093
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Re: The Credit Card Thread

Adding to what other members have already explained in so much detail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobogris View Post
People using Infinia have to spend at least 8 lakhs for the fee waiver. ...
Even if we need to pay the annual fee, the equivalent number of reward points are credited back. This makes sense only if one's normal expenses can be covered with the purchase done on smart buy (air miles/tanishq). Else, as you indicate, it probably only means additional cost, unless of course one has a LTF card.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobogris View Post
like paying at restaurants via Dineout or Zomato where I get 10% extra on wallet loading and 10 to 50% off on the bill.
Infinia has a partnership with dineout and gives a membership that needs to be activated. I activated it recently, this has saved me almost 50% of the restaurant bills the past few months.
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Old 14th January 2022, 12:52   #5094
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Re: The Credit Card Thread

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Originally Posted by tejas08 View Post
I hope the question is a genuine question and not more of sarcasm.
No sarcasm at all, sir. I said it out of deepest respect. Thank you for another great explanation where you have once again demonstrated your expertise on the subject. I will be looking into this in greater detail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tejas08 View Post
If you purchased that iPad Pro on Infinia, you would have got Rs. 8700 in terms of Amazon Vouchers or Rs. 17,400 worth reward points for Flight / Hotel Bookings or Tanishq .
This sort of validates my point. I received a cashback of around 6,000. That was my point. Infinia is a little better however here all I had to do was click and pay without any limits or additional requirements like spending an x amount per year. In addition, as per the data provided, the maximum points allowed on the Infinia would have been 17,400 which at 0.33 would fetch the same 6,000 when purchasing the said Amazon vouchers. On the Regalia the limit is even lower. What about purchasing a pricier item like a TV for 3 lakhs or multiple purchases in a month that exceed the maximum points threshold? On Amazon Pay ICICI, I can simply buy items worth 10 lakhs and get 50k cashback without any hassle.

Last edited by Lobogris : 14th January 2022 at 12:58.
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Old 14th January 2022, 13:11   #5095
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Re: The Credit Card Thread

Quick question to all the experts here- Is there a way to extract/download the yearly statement for HDFC Regalia credit card? Basically I’m looking to understand my CC expenses over a year. I’m not interested in the granular transaction detail but in the total amount I’ve spent in a year (financial or calendar).

ICICI app has an option to download PDF within the app with transaction level detail for each financial year. Something similar is what I’m looking for HDFC.
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Old 14th January 2022, 13:57   #5096
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Re: The Credit Card Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobogris View Post
What about purchasing a pricier item like a TV for 3 lakhs or multiple purchases in a month that exceed the maximum points threshold? On Amazon Pay ICICI, I can simply buy items worth 10 lakhs and get 50k cashback without any hassle.
You do have a valid point here. When one needs to buy a big ticket item from Amazon or Flipkart, then it does make sense to go with Amazon Pay ICICI CC (Amazon) or Axis Bank CC (Flipkart).
I did a small calculation and found that if one needs to spend more than Rs112500 from Amazon or Rs215200 from Flipkart, then Infinia card will lose out to Amazon Pay CC or Axis Bank CC.
Current maximum cap on Smartbuy reward points is 15000 for Infinia CC.
But, as you can see from my calculations, if the spend is less than the above mentioned values, then it does make sense to go with Infinia CC.
Experts can correct me if I am wrong with my below calculations.
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Old 14th January 2022, 14:46   #5097
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Re: The Credit Card Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobogris View Post
This sort of validates my point. I received a cashback of around 6,000. That was my point. Infinia is a little better however here all I had to do was click and pay without any limits or additional requirements like spending an x amount per year. In addition, as per the data provided, the maximum points allowed on the Infinia would have been 17,400 which at 0.33 would fetch the same 6,000 when purchasing the said Amazon vouchers. On the Regalia the limit is even lower. What about purchasing a pricier item like a TV for 3 lakhs or multiple purchases in a month that exceed the maximum points threshold? On Amazon Pay ICICI, I can simply buy items worth 10 lakhs and get 50k cashback without any hassle.
Why take 0.33 Re as a comparison factor when you get 0.5 Re per point when redeeming for Amazon Vouchers. 17,400 Points translates to Rs. 8700.

On the subject of Rs. 10 Lacs purchase, I want to know if you would do an impulsive purchase of 10 Lacs?

If no, then Infinia will definitely get better rewards. For example, if I am looking at any major purchase like this, I will start buying Croma Vouchers for three months, this will give me 5X on a much bigger amount. These vouchers come with a validity of minimum 6 months.

Another aspect is about u comparing only the Amazon Voucher redemption value, maybe because you dont travel much. If you travel or need to book flights / hotels, then those reward points are worth much more.

I always say this that keep an eye for any non-regular expenses in the coming 2-3 months. This will help reap credit card benefits even more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by youknowitbetter View Post
Hi Tejas, thanks for explaining the details of Infinia and Regalia in detail. I have been using Regalia for last 7 years. Now my usage has considerably increased as I am paying some expenses (which are sizeable in nature). Can you let me know how does HDFC upgrade from Regalia to Infinia. My Regalia limit is shy of 5 lakhs, I have got IDFC card, which has a limit of 12.5 lakhs. Hence, I end up using it for making large payments. I will prefer to switch it to Infinia if I can get one.
You will need a minimum of 8 Lacs Credit Limit on Regalia to get Infinia. Try sending a credit limit increase request form to HDFC's Chennai office with your income as well as a copy of IDFC Card's statement.

Last edited by tejas08 : 14th January 2022 at 14:47.
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Old 15th January 2022, 12:14   #5098
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Re: The Credit Card Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by tejas08 View Post
Why take 0.33 Re as a comparison factor when you get 0.5 Re per point when redeeming for Amazon Vouchers. 17,400 Points translates to Rs. 8700.
Another aspect is about u comparing only the Amazon Voucher redemption value, maybe because you dont travel much. If you travel or need to book flights / hotels, then those reward points are worth much more..
I think I got 0.33 value from what a member posted here about Regalia. I do travel quite a bit but from what I have learnt from reviews, budget airlines like Air Asia are not available. How would you rate Regalia vs. other cards?
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Old 15th January 2022, 13:45   #5099
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Re: The Credit Card Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by tejas08 View Post
If you purchased that iPad Pro on Infinia, you would have got Rs. 8700 in terms of Amazon Vouchers or Rs. 17,400 worth reward points for Flight / Hotel Bookings or Tanishq Vouchers.

Two Things:

1. The calculations you are considering for Infinia are wrong
2. ICICI Amazon Pay gives 5% only for Purchases made on Amazon whereas Infinia's higher reward rate is across multiple categories / Merchants / Spend Types




Dineout again has additional 15% discount for using HDFC Cards in Dineout Pay over and above those 10 to 50% that the app already offers.

Rest if you still think ICICI APay card is good for you instead of Infinia, thats perfectly fine. Its a personal choice. But calling ICICI Amazon Pay Card better or equivalent to Infinia for everybody is not the right statement.
I agree, dineout works amazing for me. Just had a lunch for friends where the bill came to 9.5k. We finally paid 5.5k, including dineout discout, hdfc discount and dineout cash.
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Old 15th January 2022, 16:30   #5100
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Re: The Credit Card Thread

Which of the two between HDFC Regalia and Diners club privilege is better? Primary use case would be to use for dining out, groceries, other retail purchases (electronics, clothes etc). I have heard good things about both the cards and my friend has diners club card which he says is good. Not sure if they are accepted at all merchants though. Any help from the gurus here would be helpful
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