[JoshMachine]

Originally Posted by poloman

Shall I wait for a better EV option or listen to heart and buy the Fortuner?

The guilt is genuine and can continue to haunt/even get compounded after the decision has been taken, if some unfortunate incident gets attributed to the earlier purchase.

Since the guilt is driven by "what-if" scenarios of putting a sizeable chunk of your hard-earned money for supposedly buying something that is not aligned to what one may consider noble life goals (kids' education, kids' marriage, retirement etc.), there could be potential ways to mitigate that guilt:-

* Plan the purchase in such a way that you do not spend all cash in one go (part cash, part loan etc. considering opportunity costs, the works)

* Plan (& maybe start executing also) replenishment of the amount that you are planning to spend now (a new fund/deposit maybe) with a clear timeline in mind

* Treat this decision as a sign of confidence in your own ability to take a calculated risk

Many folks after slogging it out for many years, will reach this point in their lives when they have to decide & prioritize on these lines.
Go ahead, do the financial math sufficient times to arrive at what can you spend now and how can you replenish later. But don't let it pull your hair apart.

Do the math, plan for next steps, take the plunge and buy the Fortuner

BTW, no current EV can hold a candle to the Fortuner.
So, there you have it. One more reason to buy what your heart says.

[SShandilya]

In words of Chris Harris -
“If you judge life by needs rather than wants, you might as well live in a cave”

Mate the fact you come from a middle class family means at the initial start of your career you were one determined and aspiring man. That leaves one question to be answered, what drove your determination and hardwork ? It was a better life !

Better life = better house,better car, better opportunities for your family

I am sure when you started out, you must’ve seen some fancy car and quickly would’ve muttered ‘One day’ and that day is today.

[poloman]

Originally Posted by mygodbole

Still trying to figure out the topic: "Want to buy a 45 - 50 lakh SUV | How to get rid of the middle class guilt?"
INR4.5mn to INR5mn? For transportation? Middle class?
Mods, if this is offensive, please remove. No intention of hurting anyone's feeling.

I think you are a little confused on the 'middle class' definition. I studied in a Govt Engineering college and my parents would have spent around 20K for my entire education. That would still be a good amount 25 years back. I started career with a salary of 8000/- . So I consider myself part of this class who are not born with a silver spoon.

In any country, middle class is not static. Generally people rise from poverty and move to affluent at various stages of their life. The income range of middle class also increases. In India it is not the people who move on Vespas or Lambys with oiled hair any more.

And above all, in India as @androdev pointed out it is a value system imbibed over generations.

[PKG]

PoloMan, like your boldness and the big plunge you want to take. The Guilt will be there for the class you mentioned and I consider myself also one of these. YOLO is the word now.. so go for it..!!! and as many of our friends have said, with your tendency to keep these for long, if you can afford this easily, pls go for it. Better to still keep your small car around as within City, this will be a hassle - Parking, movements etc.. this should be your family and long drives car. Hope you will take more of these long trips with this beast. its best felt and utilized on long stretches..

Be also ready to upgrade a lot many things with this !!!

You can get in and out of the Polo wearing chappals, if you do this with in Fortuner, someone will look at you as the employed driver.
Can't wear any ordinary sunglasses, they have to be Rayban and more..

Good Luck and do share the experience post purchase on the Middle class feel and indulgence..

[KI07]

Why not just get the Compass Diesel?
Assuming you don't have more than 4-5 members(Polo), Compass will suffice you largely in my opinion, it also has street cred to some extent, built well
Options will change if you're open to Petrol

[turbo_delight]

Spending/Not spending is not related with any "value system" as such. "Ethics/Values" are not something that should be associated with any class, be it lower/middle/higher class.

Anyways that's digressing from the main topic.

I think Sir what you are going through is not middle class "guilt" but i would say it's middle class confusion.

Typical Middle class "confusion" : heart is saying this, mind is saying that. Always.

Typical thinking in early twenties : lets buy a 2bhk , decent car, close loan, I'll be happy, will then live life king size.

In our late twenties : we would have closed all loans. Should I buy 3 bhk or not. Again confused.

In early thirties : 3 bhk makes more sense. Let's buy. Will close loan, and then will not worry about anything else in life.

Late thirties : now that loan is also closed. Should I buy a villa and then I'll be happy. Again confusion.

Early forties : bought villa. Will close loan and then I'll be happy. Again that same circus, will enjoy life to fullest once the loan is closed.

Early fifties : BP, sugar, diabetes etc etc. You will never get to live life.

This is what is middle class confusion. I hope this confusion ends for you.

[das_ren_auto]

Originally Posted by poloman

Is Toyota customer support and service the same it used to be?

Recently my family had booked an Urban Cruiser. We intended to make a payment of Rs 600000 through Credit Card and balance through RTGS . But the dealer straightaway refused to accept card payment as they are supposed to pay transaction charges for it. I am aware that the rule of the land clearly says that such costs has to be borne by the dealer as "cost of doing business", but to my understanding nobody does that.

The dealer was even ok with the cancellation and was willing to pay full refund of booking amount.

My family decided to yield and make the full payment through RTGS. Then as a casual attempt I sent a whatsapp message to Toyota customer service with a request to accept credit card payment. It was just a request and even I did not quote any legal aspects.

Immediately I got an automated acknowledgement of my message and nothing else after that. Next day my family got a call from the dealer expressing his willingness to accept credit card payment.

Now that is what I call customer service

[vgaquarius]

I might be too young to comment on this dilemma but I still remember the days when we used to get a base variant Maruti Suzuki Alto with AC for around 2.5 lakhs ex-showroom, but a decade later, the prices have shot up to 4 lakhs. Inflation, increased manufacturing costs, taxation or whatever anyone has to blabber about are all secondary.

A Toyota Fortuner starting from 18 lakhs a decade ago but today available for double the amount doesn't make sense. Recently, I came across a thread on TeamBHP itself where a teamBHPian booked a Land Cruiser in Japan and claimed that the base variant costs around the price of an Innova!

IMHO, Fortuner has the best road presence and reliability in this segment, but when looking at the aspect of drivability and features, it is NOT a value for money option. As vehicles depreciate way too fast, the Fortuner does hold its value but is it true for the Fortuner today?
If you are a keeper, you won't be bothered about the resale value, as it is a diesel vehicle would be considered legally dead after 10 years and a petrol after 15.
Irrespective of the precious time, energy and resources you spend over these years to keep your car in good shape, thanks to NGT to shove those environment friendly rules up our face, even if the car technically qualifies to be fit for road use.

You should buy the Fortuner calculating Your probable mileage over the years of ownership.
Toyotas can prove to be an asset only if you put up a couple of lakh kilometres and don't let it go till the end of its lifecycle.
A perfect value for money option for a person who travels more than 10k kilometres a month and has to shell out money for service every month!

A car covering more than 1 lakh kilometres per year needs to be reliable and easy on the pocket in terms of maintenance when compared to other alternatives. That is the only scenario when we should blindly empty our pockets on an Innova or Fortuner.

Moreover, having driven a Polo, I'm pretty sure You won't be happy with the Fortuner's drivability which when compared to the Polo is CRAP.

• Suspension? It's gonna give you a bounce.The Endy was way more Comfy.
• Heavy Braking? Get ready for a complete nose dip.
• High Speed Stability? Ouch, this boat hurts.
• Wanna throw it into the corners? Damn, an SUV with a High Centre of Gravity.

On the whole, You tend to carry the driving character of the previous car you came from and you'll end up missing the drive feel way too much in the Fortuner.
An amount of 35-40 lakh is a huge. After all, it's not a 10 lakh car which if you don't like, you can flip much easier and faster with lesser depreciation.

Drive safe.
Vaibhav

[MahiDesai]

Here is the solution to your Dilemma.

Go for the pre-owned Fortuner as there are plenty for sale and will provide 8-10L cost reduction over the new one if you chose 2018 version.

The guilt is coming from the fact that Fortuner is priced at least 12 to 15Lakhs more than its worth and they dont have any guilt in hiking the prices year on year.

So, in my view only solution is go for pre-worshipped albeit its 2-3 years old and has the same technology, engine and overall capability.

Cheers and let us all know which path you chose and bite the bullet.

Mahi

[MaheshY1]

After reading a bunch of posts in the thread, I can sense that this is liquidity talking.

I have made some financial blunders in my life, especially in the auto area. I know I bought the right vehicle but I bought it too soon. Before I could afford it. I believe that the primary vehicle should cost about 3 months worth of income but in no case more than 6 months. Sure, a person can buy a car worth 3 years of income and banks will happily lend to such a person if their credit score is good. But it's up to us to look past the consumerism way of life and find utility in everything we buy.

I buy a Mac because it has a lower average cost per year than any Windows laptop. Sure, there's some emotional value for the design and the perceived status it brings. But the Mac justifies its worth on its own.

Similarly, if the Fortuner is adding any utility value and if it has a lower average per year ownership costs than a more affordable car with similar utilitarian value, then it's a solid buy. It still should fit within the 3-6 month income bracket.

Otherwise, let the money make you money and wait for it to compound some more before you can buy it guilt-free. The fact that there's still guilt for buying the Fortuner means that your mind still considers it a big-ticket purchase. Wait for it to start feeling like a new flat screen purchase for the entertainment room. Otherwise, the guilt keeps coming back and may even overpower once the new-car euphoria weakens.

On an auto forum, you may call it blasphemy. But, for me, vehicles are like appliances, which take me from point A to B. The features like ground clearance, comfort, cruise control, etc. are the utility to improve my ownership experience.

[npal]

Originally Posted by poloman

I have mentioned in my opening few great things which could be done for this kind of money. Let me elaborate a bit what I had in mind.

Few years back, I had a US vacation to Disney Land and East coast with my then 10 year old daughter. That was one of the best experiences we had in our lives. It costed just over 8L. So you could do at least 6 foreign trips with the money you spent on a 50L SUV. Was planning a Europe trip during 2020-2021 which could not materialize due to COVID.

Daughter's studies abroad with zero loans. 60-70L will be pretty much what you need for a Masters degree in US. Don't want to burden my daughter with any loans in the start of her career.

Decent charitable activities. Give something back significantly to the society.

Go for zero loan and build a bigger house which I am planning 2 years down the line. We already have an apartment currently.

A little late to the party. In a similar boat (25+ years in IT, wanting a good car, trip to Disneyland with daughter, wanting a good education for daughter abroad), and here's my thoughts on your situation.

Middle class values and associated guilt is real. It's harder to pull the trigger on a 50L car than on a 3cr house or plot. That's just how we think.

The very fact that you decided on the reliable, worry-free Fortuner instead of a Kodiaq or the X3 says your heart and mind are in alignment. That said, I think what's holding you back is the cost and what you can do with that money instead.

As @ranjitnair77 said, perhaps you want the chase as much as the car itself. Buying a new one is not enough of a chase. So try to find a good used one, less than 3 years old, that you really like and has a good history, preferably from an individual. If you do find such a car, you'll know if you really want it. If so, buy it. Won't cost you as much, so at least lesser guilt.

But if at that point you hesitate, you likely don't really want the car as much as you wanted the chase. You can stop then, and plan what you want to do with the money - you have enough options.

If you do buy, you'll probably buy it in cash. If so there should be enough left over for a good holiday abroad, or 1/4 to 1/3 of what you intend to spend on your daughter's education. Assuages some guilt..

[ScorpWarp]

I was in similar dilemma after recovering from Covid about 4 months ago. Had decided to start living in the moment, sell hardly used BRV with less than 17k on odo and buy Compass. The plan was to reward myself for the whatever financial independence I achieved so far after starting from zero. I want to tour India in next 5 years hence upgrade to a premium, AWD SUV. I was finding every reason to justify the heart decision to splurge. But then head took over and I am glad. I would now wait for Meridian, Tucson before taking the plunge. My advice to you is
1. Sleep over it, literally for 1 month. Dont rush into buying.
2.Put the money in good liquid fund till then unless it is already invested.
3. Ask yourself if you see yourself using Fortuner every day, day in day out, shadow practice.
4. Do you want to be SEEN driving a Fortuner or you would put it right use capability wise immediately after buying?
5. Do you have time to enjoy the machine, evaluate work and family schedule? Would it end up parked in garage 5 days week with occasional weekend drive ?
6. Would you be fine with city driving, parking hassles? How about ride quality? Would you feel good being tossed around after spending so much ?
6. What is that you really want from next car - Premiumness ? Reliability? Social bragging rights ? Go anywhere ability?
7. After the novelty wears off would you still feel special, enjoy the Fortuner especially when you see new cars with better features and ride quality? There should not be an iota of doubt at all.
8. After considering all these factors if you still cant get over the itch then go ahead and buy. But don't buy cash, get the best car loan and put the remaining money in aggressive funds instead.
Hope this helps.

[Poitive]

IMO, a person who has worked hard and earned the money has way more right to spend it on one's heart's desire than someone who inherited it. Inheritance comes with a responsibility of passing it on to the next gen. What one earned is rightfully there to spend if one so chooses.

So, from a financial guilt perspective, I'd say there should be none. Whether it is wise, is another and highly subjective issue; a personal decision, which should be based on the opportunity cost of that money to your situation, and preferences in life.

Rant hereon:

Interests
The opportunity cost could be very little or a lot, based on your other interests in life. I love cars, but I also love a lot of other stuff, so taking a segment or trim lower allows money to be allocated to my other interests. I prefer that route, as it allows me more overall satisfaction. Maybe you want a Dil Chahata Hai like trip across Spain with your childhood buddies? See what makes you tick in life, mate.

Money for the kids
At times kids do a lot better with some pressure and sense of responsibility on them. Having some loan and paying it themselves also gives them a sense of accomplishment and maybe even the right set of friends and influences in life, which are a big factor in how life shapes up. Trips where one meets people from different backgrounds and interacts with them, especially earlier in life, are an education in itself. Living with lesser resources too is - it brings a different kind of confidence in life.

Money in the bank
It is not about the money per se, but it takes care of some of the 'what-if' stresses in life, which in turn is good for health.

Carbon footprint
It really is a political issue at the core of it IMO, so would not get into it keeping forum ethics in mind.

Neighbors' envy
While it is a driving force for some, I think it is better left alone after a certain stage in life, as it adds little joy to life. Better left aside.
(Or maybe you can just buy an Onida )

Buying excitement
As was said before in the thread: some purchases are more about getting the possession than enjoying it. Consider if that is the case. What I cherish in life are the numerous little experiences one has had - could have come with a car, or without it.

Also check this thread. It isn't only about the title. Some interesting perspectives there too.
Is it necessary for "fun-to-drive" to only involve fast + tight handling cars?
(My personal views on that thread here)

If this question was asked to a bunch of people focused on finance, you would likely have got a resounding no. Here, with a bunch of auto enthusiasts of course the answer would favour a go ahead. At the end of it, I think it should be a personal decision made without guilt, and based on your worldview and what makes you tick.

~~~~~~
PS: Some very interesting posts in this thread. What stood out is how this topic resonated with so many.
PPS: IMO this is not really and automotive discussion and more suited to 'Shifting Gears', and I have answered it such.

[warp_10]

To everyone here glorifying about the resale value of Fortuner, yes it is bound to have a super strong resale value. But to expect the price of Fortuner to go up the same way in the next decade, well thats a different story.

1. It's just been a period where others have not yet tapped this segment. It's definitely not going to stay the same. When Premier padmini was at its helm, its resale value was unquestionable (well getting hands on a new one had years of waiting).

2. I don't think the resale value is super skewed for Fortuner. If you look at the OLX Autocar report that happened sometime last year, Endeavour gave a tough run for Fortuner (though equation will skew now). Also, if you compare to other classes, the best-in-class in segment depreciation were all on-par % with what Fortuner had (it was best in premium SUV).

https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...um-suvs-421884

https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...s-study-421823

3. The semiconductor shortage has definitely skewed the whole car (specifically used) market for now. The shortage though might last in the near future, definitely will get into surplus mode in the next 5 years.

4. What folks here are forgetting to tell you is that there is an inflation growth of 6% which compounded for a decade will translate to about 70%. What it means is a 50 lakh now and a 50 lakh 10 years later are not the same. Its more like a 50 lakhs, 10 years down is like 15 lakhs now.

Yes, I agree Fortuner is an amazing vehicle and has amazing reliability. But to state that the car will see the same run (of price increases) for the next decade and further is like betting on dot com companies during the 2000 bubble.

I still think the OP should go ahead with his heart to buy the car of his dream. But I don't think it should be based on resale pricing

[atnyia]

Couple of years back, I ordered Oneplus TV for 58K. I could afford it pretty easily. It's almost funny but nevertheless true that I got depressed for 'splurging' the money. It wasn't really about the money but the perceived value for the money I was spending.

"Is it really necessary? Should I be spending 60 K just to watch the TV? I can easily save 25 K by buying the VU."

The train of thought finally yielded the root cause of my depression. I was actually sad and feeling low and wasn't enjoying anything since putting the order. I was sad for needlessly spending 25K extra, just for my heart.

I am as middle class as it gets. The heart might covet things and tells us YOLO; it's not that easy to pull the trigger. I have no advice for you, but, I know the feeling.

p. s./aftermath: Almost comically, I cancelled the order and slept peacefully that day. Bought VU a few days later.