[yashg]

I am in the same conundrum as you, but about Jeep Compass. I can afford it, but I feel guilty because I haven’t utilised my current car to the max. My 6 year-old Aspire has driven only 30K KMs and I feel I should use it for a couple more years at least before upgrading, especially when there is absolutely nothing wrong with the existing car.

In your case, you have at least used your Polo for 12 years and you aren’t selling it anytime soon, so you have earned yourself a new car. What good is all the money earned if you don’t pamper yourself when you can. I’d say, go ahead and get it.

Originally Posted by poloman

Shall I wait for a better EV option or listen to heart and buy the Fortuner?

If getting an EV is somewhere at the back of your mind then you may want to wait for a couple of weeks. ZS EV facelift is round the corner with much larger battery. It could be under 30. That might lessen your guilt a bit.

Finally, IMHO, when you get to a stage where you want a particular car rather than need a particular car, you should only buy it if you can afford to buy it in cash. However, you should still buy it on loan for obvious financial reasons. I am sure you would be aware of the magic of compounding. I only got to understand it’s miraculous power last year at the age of 39.

Just for illustration and out of my own curiosity, I ran some numbers. Say you take a loan of 40L for the Fortuner @ 7% for 5 years. You will pay a total of 7.52L as interest (EMI 79,200). For 3 years, interest is 4.46L (EMI 1,23,508).

If you then keep those 40L in bank FD @ 5.6% you would earn 12.83L in interest over 5 years. After 30% tax it would be 8.97L. No one in their right frame of mind would keep 40L in FD with bank. If you invest it in an index fund assuming just 12% returns per year, the 40L investment after 4 years would give a return of 30.49L. And if you were to sell it, the tax would be just 10% LTCG leaving you with 27.44L post tax. You can keep your savings intact and buy the car of your dream as well. Savings will keep on compounding.

Apart from this, 40L now is worth more than 40L five years down the line. The EMI will be worth a lot less over a period.

So get over your guilt and go get it.

[HTC]

Poloman,

Let me make it little simple for you,
- if you think or still consider that you are part of the 'great indian middle class', Don't buy the new fortuner dumping 5 million rupees. Period!

- If otherwise, go ahead and buy without any guilt.

Saying this as one of my friend who is into construction and has very healthy flow of money and contacts, always dreamt of buying a new fortuner. He had a proper use case to buy one as he travels 200km daily for his work on highways and rural roads.I always considered him rich ( read non-middle class). But after crunching some numbers and cost analysis, he dropped his dreams and brought a top end crysta costing 30 lacs. Why i am saying all this, because I saw a live example of even well to do people considering Fortuner as over priced. It has nothing to do weather you can afford a new fortuner or not. I'm just stating what I witnessed first hand.
Instead come to a middle ground and go for used fortuner or new xuv700, compass or similar. You can use the amount saved to fund your road trips or take care of car service and insurance etc.

Before anyone asks - 'I am definitely middle class '. Just cancelled my Thar booking after waiting for 10 months. Vehicle allocation was also done. I had to take a heart vs mind decision and mind won this round .

Drive safe and have fun
-HTC

[poloman]

To some of the younger friends who are reading this thread.

You will be making 90% of your savings in the last 10 years of your career. This is due to the magical power of compounding. Also you will start earning extremely well during this phase of your careers. Due to new techs, this may have changed a bit, but generally this is the scenario. So even if you start with low income, by mid forties you will be in extremely good financial state.

When you spend or splurge is important. If a 30 year old stretches and buy a 50L SUV. essentially he is eating up the seeds which could have been sown for compounding later. So sow your seeds when you are young and reap the benefits when you are middle aged.

The argument of upfront v/s finance is not as simple as some one pointed out.
Upfront -ves
When you pay up front you are burning through your savings and any in eventuality you may have to take loans at higher rate than auto loan. Or you may have to make a distress sale of your asset.
This amount can be invested in markets or mutual funds to get higher returns than auto loans. So you will be facing huge opportunity losses.

+ves
If you pay upfront. you won't be paying huge emi, So this amount can again be invested in SIPs to gain higher returns. This is something which most people miss in their calculations
For finance you will be paying huge emi, which may restrict your savings potential. Even though you can over come this hit, in may be 3 years.
This will again affect your peace of mind having a debt in the last leg of your career.
So I am also leaning to take a 50:50 mix of cash+finance.

[kiki_13]

Is this called 'buying power' ?


My friend applies this rule when it comes to expenses; and it helps him a lot.

10% - for himself
20% - for others- charity, extended family
30% - for his own family : wife and kids
40% - savings.

He says he doesn't think twice if he has to spend on a new phone or a big car - if he has funds in that 10% bucket.

[Kumaran93R]

I love cars. I love driving cars. And because of my work situation, I have to drive a lot.

I'm in my late twenties and have started earning a decent amount. I was upgrading from my humble Maruti 800 5 Speed. To be honest, the 5 Speed 800 kinda spoilt me with great steering feedback. Even though I had a budget of upto 10 lacs, no other car could give me the same level of feedback and go-kart like handling on the road. After testing a good number of new and used cars, I decided to get an 1st get Octavia vRS / Laura TSI / Civic / T-Jet. But my heart was set on the Fiesta 1.6 S. Even though the other cars handle well, they can't come close to how the Fiesta feels in a corner. Then after searching for three long years, finally got hold of a clean Fiesta 1.6 S in Aquarius Blue. Its been three months since I got her and have clocked 5k kms already. Those 5k kms have been a blast. She has gobbled up a huge amount of petrol in the meanwhile though.

The way I see it, cars are emotionally close to me. I don't see myself driving a car because it appeals to my mind. It has to appeal to my heart. I'd rather go get a cheap, used car which is well within my budget and spend the rest on petrol and maintenance than plonk the cash into a Venue / Sonnet. For me, the smiles come from the miles.

For the OP, I would seriously urge him to take a long test drive of the Fortuner and then decide. I didn't like its boat like handling or the cumbersome driving dynamics, esp inside the city. Since he wouldn't be taking it off roading, I would suggest him to strongly take a look at a three to five year old Innova 2.8 Z AT. That car oozes with power and is much more comfortable than the Fortuner. He should also take a look at a slightly used BS4 Endeavor 3.2 6AT. That car has even more street presence than the Fortuner IMO. And more importantly, both these cars will easily fit into half his budget. Will appeal to the heart as well as the head.

[handsofsteel]

Originally Posted by poloman

I think you are a little confused on the 'middle class' definition. I studied in a Govt Engineering college and my parents would have spent around 20K for my entire education. That would still be a good amount 25 years back. I started career with a salary of 8000/- . So I consider myself part of this class who are not born with a silver spoon.

And above all, in India as @androdev pointed out it is a value system imbibed over generations.

I am glued to this thread and have read every single post. First things first, accept it, you are officially in a mid-life crisis (of the good kind). 😁

Whatever you have written in the quoted post describes me to the T. (I am 79 born). I have planned completely for my retirement and my parents’ healthcare as on date. That is, I can continue leading the lifestyle that I am leading now for the rest of my life. I do not know how much would my children need but frankly do not intend to go down that road. I am ok with them taking some kind of educational loan. So that’s a variable for me.

I too had such an itch two years back wherein I ended up buying a superbike on my 40th birthday after lusting for it for so long (while being stopped from it by my middle class values/upbringing) and hearing the same logic of you only live once, splurge on yourself, create memories etc etc. looking back, it was an impulsive buy and not a rational one. However, having bought it, I have enjoyed myself on it decently. It still brings a smile to my face. BUT, please remember, as someone here very rightly said, ”its value/satisfaction index starts dropping once you have it and then you start looking elsewhere.” This is especially true when you are aware of a few shortcomings beforehand (ride quality etc). These will magnify over a period of time. That’s why it’s likened to a lust, it’s fleeting and nobody knows how long it will last.

I have also experimented with abroad trips with family and, purely from a personal point of view, they bring more enduring memories. This has convincingly brought me around to the point of view that experiences, not material possessions, give more lasting joy. Pre covid, took my kids to Disneyland, Legoland and all other lands😁. Took my wife to a country of her choice, spent 2-3 weeks at all these places.

After doing all this, had an itch again this year. to buy a SUV, one life, after all. Reevaluated, realised for this sum of money, can keep running my Jazz for another 10 years and straightaway buy a desirable EV if, by then, I still desire it. So, in lieu, this year, have booked tickets to down under to spend two weeks with my son watching a sporting extravaganza at some of the greatest stadia in the world.

From one of your posts, I read that you want to save money for your daughter’s higher education a well as for building a larger house. Again, entirely in my personal opinion, both are far nobler thoughts. One of the members here advised that you ask your family. In my opinion, no family will stop you from buying what you desire, they only encourage you. The decision is, therefore, purely yours.

I would strongly recommend, even at the risk of brickbats here, that make a bucket list of experiences from the heart, tick them off, and then, only then, come to possessions. Last year of gasoline engines etc are all a passing phase, tomorrow it will be the EVs and day after, good knows what. So, take a measured, well considered decision, am sure you will enjoy it.

Remember, the more you think, the more unlikely it is that you will buy it, because it can’t be logically justified. Therefore, if at all you buy it, it will be an impulsive, spur of the moment thing.

Good luck, keep us posted.

[Air_Kerala]

As a commercial pilot flying 180 odd passengers across a myriad of destinations and ever changing weather conditions, each approach and landing is a challenge.

As a young first officer, I have had my ups and downs, with regards to landings and being hard on yourself after a mediocre approach and/or landing is the norm, till I flew with a very senior captain, who in his career has seen multiple economic downturns, a recession, three airlines go down, all the while racking up an insane amount of flying hours, and all he said was "Dont over think it, stick to the basics, react as needed, keep learning". Boy, that advice helped me, a lot and now as a captain, I give out the same to myself and my first officers.

For you sir, my ten cents would be the exact same.

Dont over think it - Live in the moment, enjoy that 500NM of torque.

Stick to the basics - Fiscal prudence, never over stretch for a commodity, which you have achieved.

React as needed - As EV's and associated infra become common place, re evaluate, a Fortuner will sell it self.

Keep learning - i guess thats self explanatory

[vijaykr]

Originally Posted by handsofsteel

BUT, please remember, as someone here very rightly said, ”its value/satisfaction index starts dropping once you have it and then you start looking elsewhere.” This is especially true when you are aware of a few shortcomings beforehand (ride quality etc). These will magnify over a period of time. That’s why it’s likened to a lust, it’s fleeting and nobody knows how long it will last.

I agree with your comment that over time experiences will likely endure than possessions. What I also realized is my younger self would not have agreed with this at all and plumped for the immediate material, tangible things

Originally Posted by handsofsteel

Remember, the more you think, the more unlikely it is that you will buy it, because it can’t be logically justified. Therefore, if at all you buy it, it will be an impulsive, spur of the moment thing.

When this thread started, I was all for, just go for it and get what the heart wants Its only been a day or two since then and I am wondering about my own wisdom now. True that the longer we wait and more the choices, it becomes increasingly difficult to rationalize, at least for me.

Given the wealth of advice and feedback you @poloman have got, a well thought through decision is likely to give more peace of mind than an rushed one. You have a tough one to make and do let us know what you finally "decide" to buy

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by kiki_13

Is this called 'buying power' ?


My friend applies this rule when it comes to expenses; and it helps him a lot.

10% - for himself
20% - for others- charity, extended family
30% - for his own family : wife and kids
40% - savings.

He says he doesn't think twice if he has to spend on a new phone or a big car - if he has funds in that 10% bucket.

Bizarre logic. One should work hard but only be able to use 10% of the earnings. Meanwhile double of that should be given away to charity and distant family. Let them work hard and earn their own money! Three times more to wife and kids? Should the wife not work and contribute as well? I really don’t understand this mindset. There were people posting about the cost of international vacations for “extended family”. Why do we need to take older parents and kids on every vacation? Why can’t a person go with just the spouse? We need much more individualism in India. This whole worry about children’s marriage and education is silly. Parents have to provide for education up to the 12th class. After that perhaps for a bachelors. The child or a young adult by now can take a loan and work part time to study any further. No need to spoil them by sacrificing your own needs. I really don’t understand why people save for weddings. If the kids want a grand wedding, they can earn, save and do it. Why should parents pay for it from their savings? The cost of a wedding should be near zero. Simply marry at court. Why waste money and time for a few hours that no one would remember or care about later? Even buying a luxury car is much better.

Coming to the topic, since Poloman is concerned about the environmental impact, my advice would be to buy an EV. Either make do with a ZS EV or aim high and go with eTron or the Mercedes versions. In the next couple of years we should be getting more options as well.

[ironshark]

With all due respect, anyone in India who can afford an all cash purchase of a Fortuner should not remotely consider himself/herself as middle-class so for me - the title of this thread is misleading!!

Having said that, just go for it!! there shouldn't be any room for regret ever!!...

Originally Posted by poloman

My Polo has completed 12 years now. It is high time an upgrade is due. I am highly emotionally attached to my possessions.
So selling is not an option and Polo will stay with me. The car has served me well with zero breakdowns or major issues. Again I am very much choosy and has very strong likes and dislikes. The only car which has made an impression on me in the current lots due to multiple reasons is Toyota Fortuner. I know the car is over priced. Still I love the car. Resources are not a problem for me and I can even make an all cash purchase.

Now come, my dilemma. I will call this the 'great Indian middle class guilt or remorse' when one spent huge amounts on depreciating assets.

I am sure many of us who have come from modest back grounds but risen well only due to our parents focus on education will feel this. 45-50L is a huge amount. So, am I doing the right thing by spending such a huge amount on a car which may be higher than what you spend on your child education. You can do so many great things with that kind of money. Also the
huge carbon foot print of a massive diesel SUV worries me. Sadly no other current car excites me or I don't consider those upgrades worthy.

Shall I wait for a better EV option or listen to heart and buy the Fortuner?
I am thoroughly confused on the road ahead. Hope to get some advice from fellow members.

[GreasyCarb55]

Originally Posted by DicKy

Erm..
In my social circle (parents' gen), even if you buy a European car that is 20 lakhs cheaper than a Fortuner, you are splurging money. But a Fortuner? Respect, since you have made a wise decision, financially.


And even after purchase you have middle class guilt ridden buyer's remorse. You can sell it without losing much money.

Completely agree with this, A large Toyota SUV in India is one of the most socially accepted status symbols, even know a few folks that would pick a Fortuner/Legender over the likes of brilliant cars like a BMW 330i or a Audi A4. The Fortuner is to the Indian market what the Escalade is to the Americans, a big luxury suv that's decently fast and has acquired cult status.

One of the reasons we haven't swapped our near decade old Innova 2.5 Diesel for a Ertiga/XL6 or something like the Carens is because of the brand value and personal attachment. To this day I believe that the big shiny smile of a Gen 1 Type4 Innova with a chrome grille is one of the most menacing things you can see in your ORVM's while driving in India.

[Sarath_]

Originally Posted by poloman

My Polo has completed 12 years now. It is high time an upgrade is due.

Shall I wait for a better EV option or listen to heart and buy the Fortuner?
I am thoroughly confused on the road ahead. Hope to get some advice from fellow members.

2019 Me would have asked you to hold your cash close to your wallet and get a smaller vehicle like the Ertiga / XL6 but the past few years have shown that sometimes it's okay to listen to the heart and I would suggest you to go for it.

It might be a huge expense but it could also be a driving force to do better as you set your sights on bigger targets instead of buying a car now and keeping the Fortuner in mind for the next 5 years.

I wouldn't go into the economics of it as I am sure you're better equipped to understand your finances.

A lot of people assume that buying a Fortuner puts you out of middle class and I think the reality of it will hit hard when it presents itself.

A middle class and a rich person both can buy a fortuner. A rich person will be able to get a new one when it's stolen the very next day in the same trim and colour, while hiring someone to run around the police station and insurance agent.
A middle class person is the one who would first take time to cope with the situation, fall upon friends and family for emotional support and then run around for filing paperwork at different places just to get a part of the payment back and then proceed to buy a much smaller car, very rarely the same one.

I have met a few rich people in my life and they are of course rich but there is an element of fear always around them. Can't put a finger on it but it is ever present.

This thread is one of the more interesting reads of my recent online history and I can't wait to see where it eventually heads

[NSK123]

Originally Posted by poloman

Shall I wait for a better EV option or listen to heart and buy the Fortuner?
I am thoroughly confused on the road ahead. Hope to get some advice from fellow members.

I am also thinking on the same lines. I have a 13-year-old Punto and want to upgrade. But my kids are studying in 10+ where it would be difficult for me to make trips for the next two years. So I am waiting for a better EV.

If you are in similar situation where you cannot effectively use your car for sometime, then would suggest to wait for a better EV and then decide.

[Latheesh]

You lucky ~ 45 year olds who reaped maximum benefits of Indian IT boom

Don't buy Fortuner. You will drive Polo more than than Fortuner even after getting one. Better wait and go for a nice electric car.

[adwaith]

Originally Posted by poloman

You can do so many great things with that kind of money.

Like buying a car that makes you happy

Also the
huge carbon foot print of a massive diesel SUV worries me. Sadly no other current car excites me or I don't consider those upgrades worthy.

Shall I wait for a better EV option or listen to heart and buy the Fortuner?
I am thoroughly confused on the road ahead. Hope to get some advice from fellow members.

Well, this is kind of tricky. I appreciate your consciousness of the environment and am grateful to you. I don't have the latest figures but in 2015, India's per capita emissions were about 2.7 tonnes, when the world average was at 7 and the highest was the US at 20.4. While drops of water make the ocean, adhering to emission norms is good enough as an individual owning a car, in my opinion.

I hope this is helpful and wish you the very best! Looking forward seeing your new car here on TeamBHP.