[honeybee]

Originally Posted by lancer_gypsy

Thank you! I'll get that done and revert. Is it true that bleeding the clutch (esp on an old car, according to the mechanic) might damage the master/slave cylinders? In case that happens, any idea how much replacing those might cost?

Seems like an urban myth. The seals in the cylinders harden with age and crack. It could also be possible that the contamination of the fluids also might damage them. But bleeding shouldn't.

No idea for the Lancer how much it would cost. I paid around 20k for the master brake cylinder of the Accord, but that workshop usually charges around that much for any job, so I am thinking a master cylinder job should be around half that price. Anyway you can ask around for prices.

[lancer_gypsy]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

No, shouldn’t be a problem at all.

No matter the age of the car, all hydraulic fluids (brake and or clutch) need to be replaced/refreshed every 2-3 years regardless.

Jeroen

Originally Posted by honeybee

Seems like an urban myth. The seals in the cylinders harden with age and crack. It could also be possible that the contamination of the fluids also might damage them. But bleeding shouldn't.

No idea for the Lancer how much it would cost. I paid around 20k for the master brake cylinder of the Accord, but that workshop usually charges around that much for any job, so I am thinking a master cylinder job should be around half that price. Anyway you can ask around for prices.

Thank you Jeroen and Honeybee! I'll get the bleeding done and revert.

[SMWLN]

Unfortunately the stiff clutch issue has resurfaced, the clutch is spongy now.

The RPMs increase, but the car lags. So I've decided to visit Mr. Kumar in Vasant Kunj. Found about him, here: Harvinder & Kumar in Vasant Kunj

He has quoted around INR 4-5k for the clutch replacement. He'll check the car tomorrow and confirm what needs to be done. Let's see how it goes.

[lancer_gypsy]

Originally Posted by lancer_gypsy

Thank you Jeroen and Honeybee! I'll get the bleeding done and revert.

I ended up doing the flushing myself, since multiple FNGs practically refused to do it. Probably they were interested in the full clutch replacement job (and felt that was what was needed).


End result is: the clutch is now perceptibly better than it was earlier after heating up, i.e. it's not as hard to press and quite manageable. Earlier it would get very hard and leave me with a painful leg for a couple of days after a long drive. Not so now.


BUT: it still gets heavier from cold to hot. In the cold condition it's butter soft to press, and gets perceptibly harder after it's heated up.


Long story of the bleeding/flushing: It's the first time I undertook something like this. Went to an auto-parts store and enquired for clutch fluid and was given a DOT4 half liter can clear fluid. Checked the reservoir in my Lancer and found the existing fluid to be dark green and looked rather thick. Located the bleed screw and fully opened it and took it out. Managed to attach a flexible transparent hose to it to collect the drain-out in a bottle. Checked the clutch pedal, it was dead. Screwed the bleed screw back in and started the process. Opened the bleed screw slightly and asked a helper to press the clutch pedal down (it sank without any resistance). Closed the bleed screw and asked the helper to let go of the clutch pedal. Repeated over and over. The clutch gained back some pressure but then lost it again. Realized I'd forgotten to top up the reservoir. Topped it up with the fresh fluid and started again. Continued to do this, after again some trial & error of forgetting to top up, the helper lifting the foot before closing the bleed screw, ended up seeing the clear fluid coming out of the hose. The clutch also got full pressure, so stopped the bleeding at that, ie finally tightened the bleed screw.


In the process the bleed screw got a bit stripped on the hex side, i.e. the spanner started slipping on it. That was another reason to stop the bleeding since I don't know if I'll be able to find a spare in case its fully stripped.



Took a test drive, clutch working fine. The long drive test happened the next day (150km). Usually it would get very heavy after the first 50km. This time it got only moderately heavy even after the 150km, so the whole operation surely helped.


Only thing am not sure about yet is whether the old fluid is really fully flushed, because it was a bit sticky and viscous as seen in the reservoir, and significant parts of it could be sticking around throughout the system. The reservoir itself had it sticking all around, though I wiped it out with a rag.

[honeybee]

There could still be some air or impurities trapped if the clutch behaves noticeably different in cold and hot conditions.

Best take the car to the A.S.S. and get the clutch bled again.

[lancer_gypsy]

Originally Posted by honeybee

There could still be some air or impurities trapped if the clutch behaves noticeably different in cold and hot conditions.

Best take the car to the A.S.S. and get the clutch bled again.

That's what I was wondering; since the old fluid was rather gooey, its almost 100% certain that quite a bit of it would be sticking around in the whole system. Is there a way of cleaning this? i.e. is there a way putting in a cleaning agent and flushing with that before filling in fresh fluid?

BTW there's no ASS, they are practically dead for Mitsubishi! I have a horror story about how I foolishly took my Lancer to an ASS a few months ago (Vijayachandra in Bangalore) and the place was a graveyard of newer models come in for service/repairs and collecting dust for want of spares. There were no workers either! The person there said they hire workers on daily contract only when required.

[honeybee]

Originally Posted by lancer_gypsy

BTW there's no ASS, they are practically dead for Mitsubishi!

This job could be done by any A.S.S. of any company. If you are friends with any, try them.

Else a good FNG should also be able to help. If flushing doesn't help, further checks may be needed to find out if the seals are good.

[deep_bang]

Need some help diagnosing an issue with my Mahindra Quanto clutch.

Rarely (about a few times in an hour's drive) the clutch when depressed, does not return fully. After a few seconds though it comes back to it's original position. When this happens, the clutch-engage point is just when the pedal is close to the floor. Normally, the clutch engage point is about half way between the floor and the pedals top top most position.

A few days ago, went to a mechanic to show this problem and he noticed that the clutch fluid was low. That was topped up. However still noticed the issue after the top up too. Any thoughts on the next course of action?

[vishy76]

Originally Posted by deep_bang

Need some help diagnosing an issue with my Mahindra Quanto clutch.

Rarely (about a few times in an hour's drive) the clutch when depressed, does not return fully. After a few seconds though it comes back to it's original position. When this happens, the clutch-engage point is just when the pedal is close to the floor. Normally, the clutch engage point is about half way between the floor and the pedals top top most position.

A few days ago, went to a mechanic to show this problem and he noticed that the clutch fluid was low. That was topped up. However still noticed the issue after the top up too. Any thoughts on the next course of action?

Get the clutch mastereo cylinder and slave cylinder of your car thoroughly examined. These might be symptoms that one of these is about to fail. If this happens, the car will be rendered undrivable.

Also get the clutch system bled thoroughly to ensure there are no air pockets.

[--gKrish--]

Originally Posted by deep_bang

A few days ago, went to a mechanic to show this problem and he noticed that the clutch fluid was low. That was topped up. However still noticed the issue after the top up too. Any thoughts on the next course of action?

Inspect the master and slave cylinders. Get the lines properly bled to remove any air.

Also, there are a few things which we can check by ourselves :

Leaks near the master cylinder- check for dampness near the pedal and surroundings. If the pedal feels spongy, it is usually the master cylinder that is on the way out.
With the fluid reservoir cap open, see if the level rises when the pedal is pressed.

Pull the boot of the slave cylinder( in the engine bay above the transmission) and see if it has leaks.

[rohan_iitr]

I got the clutch of my i10 1.1 replaced 2 months back.

After that, the car's FE has gone down by 2-3 kms per litre (measured using tankful to tankful auto cut-off method).

My usage pattern and traffic conditions are more or less the same.

(My daily drive to the office is only 3 kms one way)

Is the drop in FE expected immediately after the clutch replacement ?
The car has been driven less than 500 kms after the clutch replacement.

Rohan

[sinhead]

update to my clutch problem (post no. 383)-


The clutch became slightly spongy. And a couple of days later, in a very narrow, congested lane, the gear got stuck in reverse. The gear stick just wouldn't move.
I switched off the car and tried. No use.
After a few seconds, I started the car and tried again, and thankfully I was able to disengage from reverse. I drove the car in second gear to Hyundai service centre. (It didn't get stuck at the 2 traffic intersections I had to stop at).

Spent 24K on clutch overhaul.
I could have saved a lot had I got it done from outside. But I had something much more important needing my attention, that I could neither get the clutch sorted on the day it became spongy, nor later when the gear got stuck, run around to the 2 fng mechanics I know.

So in that situation, the Hyundai service became the default choice. Knowing they tend to cheat, bill for parts they do not change, but that's the price I paid, for delaying and ignoring the hints.

Diagnosis- Slave cylinder was leaking. Master cylinder was fine. Car has run 97k, so it made sense to change both.

[sinhead]

The progression of the clutch problem over time.

1. Clutch had become hard.
2. Mild juddering in heavy traffic. Burning smell when parking in tight spaces. - So I got Clutch plates, pressure plate replaced at 80K (aftermarket ones). Problem 2 was solved but hardness didn't go.
3. Free-play reduced and overtime, became non-existent. -2/3 mechanics said, clutch is fine , you just "feel" it is hard. Hydraulic clutch is self-adjusting so you cant do much about free-play too.
4. Gears would be slightly difficult to slot once in while, but would be fine mostly.
5. Mild juddering returned. It would happen sometimes. Not a regular repeating occurrence.
6. Clutch became spongy.


*The car is used rarely just once in 2/3 weeks, so it was easy to forget and live with these niggles for a long time.

At this clutch overhaul, I could have avoided the clutch plates etc being changed and saved 8k, but decided to get the whole thing done for peace of mind. (they might have not changed the clutch plates and yet billed me for it, but at this stage I decided to risk it).

An aftermarket stitch in time could have saved a dime. but theek hai!

Posting this long post so that you guys can take preventive steps ahead in time and be aware if any of these symptoms are affecting your car.

Clutch is super soft and smooth. Perfect free-play. Pickup has improved.

[champ27]

Cross posting from Verna thread..

Hi All,

I own a verna diesel 2012 sx model. The car has done close to 77000 Kms. Last few months I am observing the following regarding clutch and gear shift:

1. The clutch has become hard and the biting point has gone quite low, closer to the floor.
2. No issues with clutch slipping or pickup.
3. The gears ( 1>2>3) slot in easily at the start of the ride but once the engine becomes warm, engaging 1st gear from say 2nd while in motion is becoming an issue. I have to bring the car to complete halt to slot in the 1st gear. If i try to downshift to 1st gear while the car is in motion, i can hear a grinding noise (sometimes) or have to wrestle with the gear stick.
4. After after driving for around 1.5 hrs in traffic, while parking the vehicle, i am able to engage the reverse gear but disengaging is a real task. I have to really pull the stick hard to bring it to neutral while pressing the clutch fully. At times it gets stuck for few seconds.
5. No problems while up-shifting.

What could be the problem here. Could it be a problem with master cylinder and slave cylinder? Will clutch bleeding help to detect the problem? Will gear box need to be opened?

Wondering whether to take the car to a FNG, given H.A.S.S will be an expensive affair. Will appreciate any help in this regard.

BTW, I spoke to the Hyundai SM, he gave a blanket quote of 24k without even examining the car. He said it is a standard occurrence in diesel verna cars and typically the clutch needs an overhaul at around 70-80k kms.

[anand253]

Originally Posted by champ27

Cross posting from Verna thread..

Hi All,

I own a verna diesel 2012 sx model. The car has done close to 77000 Kms. Last few months I am observing the following regarding clutch and gear shift:

1. The clutch has become hard and the biting point has gone quite low, closer to the floor.
2. No issues with clutch slipping or pickup.
3. The gears ( 1>2>3) slot in easily at the start of the ride but once the engine becomes warm, engaging 1st gear from say 2nd while in motion is becoming an issue. I have to bring the car to complete halt to slot in the 1st gear. If i try to downshift to 1st gear while the car is in motion, i can hear a grinding noise (sometimes) or have to wrestle with the gear stick.
4. After after driving for around 1.5 hrs in traffic, while parking the vehicle, i am able to engage the reverse gear but disengaging is a real task. I have to really pull the stick hard to bring it to neutral while pressing the clutch fully. At times it gets stuck for few seconds.
5. No problems while up-shifting.

What could be the problem here. Could it be a problem with master cylinder and slave cylinder? Will clutch bleeding help to detect the problem? Will gear box need to be opened?

Wondering whether to take the car to a FNG, given H.A.S.S will be an expensive affair. Will appreciate any help in this regard.

BTW, I spoke to the Hyundai SM, he gave a blanket quote of 24k without even examining the car. He said it is a standard occurrence in diesel verna cars and typically the clutch needs an overhaul at around 70-80k kms.

Hi

I have the same model (Aug 2012) and have gone through the same issues as you a couple of months back. My car has approx 58k on the odo and given to understand this is a fairly regular reported issue - given the car behaviour in 1st/2nd gears and heavy traffic . I had great difficulty in engaging the reverse and lower gears (heavy grinding noise too) - no issues in pickup/ slipping/ revs etc. You would have to get the clutch bled, replace the fluid and inspect the cylinders - In my case the pedal first sank and the master was replaced as it was covered in oil along with the one-way valve (this rarely gets damaged and had to be ordered from Chennai taking about 10 days). While I had read that both the cylinders should be replaced together the SM was insistent that it was not required at this stage and went ahead with his opinion. Behold my slave gave up in a month! Now this still didn't solve my hard slotting and grinding and got both the plates replaced and flywheel serviced after inspection (costs about 12k to replace) subsequently along with the slave. The car drives as good as new now.

Got it done at HASS next to my place as I know them well now with the correct OEM replacements giving piece of mind. Hope that helps.