[Jeroen]

Thanks Sutripta,

So there might be a theoretical difference between heat build up in various gears, but in practice that will not make any difference.

So forcing the DSG to downshift from 2nd to 1st to avoid heat build up is really not relevant. Might as well keep it in D, and let the thing do what it does best; choose the appropriate gear for whatever speed/driving conditions apply.

Jeroen

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

So there might be a theoretical difference between heat build up in various gears, but in practice that will not make any difference.

So forcing the DSG to downshift from 2nd to 1st to avoid heat build up is really not relevant. Might as well keep it in D, and let the thing do what it does best; choose the appropriate gear for whatever speed/driving conditions apply.

Pls. note what I said here.

Originally Posted by Sutripta

Should not be needed in any gear other than first or reverse.
BUT one never knows.
eg. - In the Maruti AMT (K12 engine), it seems to be programmed to use 2nd as its 'go to' gear. Left to its own antics, often I've found it holding second, slipping the clutch. When sanity says one should drop down to first.

If the DSG has similar programming, it makes sense to force it to shift down.

Regards
Sutripta

[aditya79india]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

eg. - In the Maruti AMT (K12 engine), it seems to be programmed to use 2nd as its 'go to' gear. Left to its own antics, often I've found it holding second, slipping the clutch. When sanity says one should drop down to first.

This happens because throttle and speed modulation in 1st gear is very difficult. Minor variations in pedal input produce large changes in speed. Holding in 2nd ratio in slow driving helps smoothen out such variations much better.

[Sutripta]

Shift points and shift logic has to take various other factors into consideration, and sometimes drivability suffers.
Fuel consumption and regulations come to mind (check out Jaguars and noise regulations) but I must say that this

Originally Posted by aditya79india

This happens because throttle and speed modulation in 1st gear is very difficult. Minor variations in pedal input produce large changes in speed. Holding in 2nd ratio in slow driving helps smoothen out such variations much better.

is very unusual.
Higher gears will blunt throttle response, but we drive our manuals pretty smoothly in first.

Regards
Sutripta

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

.

Higher gears will blunt throttle response, but we drive our manuals pretty smoothly in first.

Agree. But then again I am not sure why my Jaguars default is pulling away in second. Not a DSG type of box, just your typical AT with torque converter. Unless you really put the pedal to the metal the gear shifts are butter soft as if it is a DSG. 4.0l supercharged V8 has tonnes of torques, but still.

Why not use first?

When asking this question on the various Jaguar forums around the world, all I get is the engine has sufficient torque in second. That might be true, but I am not sure it's the true reason.

It doesn't cost anything to shift. Why not shift?

Jeroen

[Sutripta]

^^^
What are the exact ratios in the box. 1 - 2 shift - how many brakes/ bands/ clutches need to be operated.

Look at the discussion on the Jeep Trailhawk.

See if you can get details of the Jaguar example I cited.

Regards
Sutripta

[rauldsouza]

This thread is very informative, but after reading i am still unclear whether to opt for a manual 1.4 TSI or the 1.8 Auto TSI on the Octavia that has a DQ200 box.

From what i read, DSG failures are related to driving styles and a tech that has been improved upon lately.

The very fact of unreliability and getting stranded in the middle of nowhere is still a possibility that sends shivers down my spine.

What do you guys suggest, is this a fear you constantly live with or prepare for when embarking a highway drive.

[nidhinsarath]

What do you mean by DSG adaptation? Recently I’d done adaptation for my rapid DQ200 from VAGTUNE kochi. He said it’s just a software upgrade for a smoother gear shift instead of stock gear shifts which lag a bit. He upgraded from stage 1 to stage 5. Following the upgrade, the gear shifts much faster.

[adimicra]

I have been driving the Vento TSI DSG for last few days. My observation is that the DSG stays at D2 (2nd gear) even at crawling speeds of <10 kmph in traffic and even when the brakes are fully depressed for a long time (>30 secs), it stays in D1 and does not shift to neutral. So, I guess it makes sense to use manual mode to shift the gear to 1st in bumper-to-bumper traffic and also put the car to neutral when halted for >30 secs.

I don't understand all the technical details but seems like a simple practice to be followed which I will try to abide by. I don't understand why VW after so many years haven't been able to change the programming to take care of these issues.

[Rahul_]

Originally Posted by adimicra

I have been driving the Vento TSI DSG for last few days. My observation is that the DSG stays at D2 (2nd gear) even at crawling speeds of <10 kmph in traffic and even when the brakes are fully depressed for a long time (>30 secs), it stays in D1 and does not shift to neutral. So, I guess it makes sense to use manual mode to shift the gear to 1st in bumper-to-bumper traffic and also put the car to neutral when halted for >30 secs.

I have the car of the same make bought recently (2-3 months). I agree to the first half of your observations and have questions on the second. How do you determine that the gearbox has actually shifted to Neutral ? I presume that it happens internally without it mentioning anywhere on the display. I end up shifting the gear-lever to N for anything more than like 10-15 sec but would be really good to know if I could know when the Neutral gets engaged.

[adimicra]

^^

The MID shows "N" when the car is in neutral as far as I can remember.
Actually, I don't mind some manual shifting - it's very quick and easy and still there is no clutch. So, your left leg/knees can relax.

[Santoshbhat]

My Polo GT TSI has completed 7 years as on date and my Polo GTI has completed a little more than 2 years as on date. I just wanted to put out my experience with the two 7 speed DQ200 DSG equipped cars over the years.

Polo GT TSI : The GT TSI was fine during the first two years. The shift smoothness, shift logic etc... everything was perfect. It would shift up from D1 to D2 very quickly and would stay in D2 in crawling traffic. The upshifts were well programmed. I would never be bothered about the fact that the car is upshifting or downshifting too early.

At the end of two years around 15,000 kms or so. The gear box started making metallic 'clunking' sounds while downshifting from D3 to D2 and the downshifts also at times started becoming a bit violent due to the sudden engine braking induced by the lower gears. I reported this during service and they promptly did a software update.

Ever since the software update, the metallic clunks have disappeared to not return till this day. But I feel the software update also ruined the programming and shift logic which was perfect when the car was new. The update has made the car too docile. The GB upshifts too early for my liking and I always feel like the car is in one gear too high. Secondly it seems to downshift to D1 too often. I think this was done to prevent clutch slippage in D2 to preserve the gear box. Unfortunately D1 is too short a gear and when the gear box shifts to D1 you get a lot of unnecessary engine braking which kind of slows you down. Almost for every little speed breaker it goes to D1. The tendency of shifting to D1 is more if you are one who likes to use engine braking in second. Only if you are touching the brakes, it holds D2. I don't know what weird logic this is .

Due to this over eagerness to downshift to D1, I find that the gear box is more confused. It wasn't the case before the update. I see it struggles to decide between the two lowest gears esp when the roads are bad and there is an incline. I tend to put the GB out of its misery by pushing the stick left into manual mode so that it stays in D1 till the confusing terrain or stretch is over.

Once on the move, with the gear box in higher gears there is no problem at all. The quick upshifts are a joy as usual and the upshifts and down shifts from D3 and upwards are super smooth and barely noticeable. Sports mode is fun and very usable.

In short, the car is not that satisfying to drive in places where the roads are bad and there are a lot of speed breakers. The down shifts to D1 are getting on my nerves now. On smooth open roads it is still a joy.

Polo GTI : Although on paper it has the same DQ200 7 speed gear box, I am sure there are mechanical upgrades. For one this is a CBU made in the EU. There is a lot of talk of VW dumping old DQ200 boxes in third world countries like India while important markets get newer updated boxes.

Sure, the GTI is a more sport oriented model and the gear box has been tuned for performance, which is evident in the faster shift times and responses. But it also is very smooth in traffic and never gets confused about which gear to select. There is none of that D1 downshift nonsense in slow speeds and bad roads. Also being paired with a bigger engine helps. You have more torque to access which is available over a wider range.

Downshifts and upshifts via the paddles are absolutely instantaneous.

I am so scared of the so called 'software upadate' that I make it a point at every service to inform the service advisor that I don't want any software update done.

Good news is that the gear box in both cars is going strong and there is no break down as such. But I am disappointed that the one in the GT TSI got messed up after the software update which was done with , preservation of the gear box, as its main priority and not to extract optimum performance from the car and engine which is what the car originally came with.

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by Santoshbhat

My Polo GT TSI has completed 7 years as on date and my Polo GTI has completed a little more than 2 years as on date. I just wanted to put out my experience with the two 7 speed DQ200 DSG equipped cars over the years.

Polo GT TSI : The GT TSI was fine during the first two years. The shift smoothness, shift logic etc... everything was perfect. It would shift up from D1 to D2 very quickly and would stay in D2 in crawling traffic. The upshifts were well programmed. I would never be bothered about the fact that the car is upshifting or downshifting too early.

At the end of two years around 15,000 kms or so. The gear box started making metallic 'clunking' sounds while downshifting from D3 to D2 and the downshifts also at times started becoming a bit violent due to the sudden engine braking induced by the lower gears. I reported this during service and they promptly did a software update.

Ever since the software update, the metallic clunks have disappeared to not return till this day. But I feel the software update also ruined the programming and shift logic which was perfect when the car was new. The update has made the car too docile. The GB upshifts too early for my liking and I always feel like the car is in one gear too high. Secondly it seems to downshift to D1 too often. I think this was done to prevent clutch slippage in D2 to preserve the gear box. Unfortunately D1 is too short a gear and when the gear box shifts to D1 you get a lot of unnecessary engine braking which kind of slows you down. Almost for every little speed breaker it goes to D1. The tendency of shifting to D1 is more if you are one who likes to use engine braking in second. Only if you are touching the brakes, it holds D2. I don't know what weird logic this is .

Due to this over eagerness to downshift to D1, I find that the gear box is more confused. It wasn't the case before the update. I see it struggles to decide between the two lowest gears esp when the roads are bad and there is an incline. I tend to put the GB out of its misery by pushing the stick left into manual mode so that it stays in D1 till the confusing terrain or stretch is over.

Once on the move, with the gear box in higher gears there is no problem at all. The quick upshifts are a joy as usual and the upshifts and down shifts from D3 and upwards are super smooth and barely noticeable. Sports mode is fun and very usable.

In short, the car is not that satisfying to drive in places where the roads are bad and there are a lot of speed breakers. The down shifts to D1 are getting on my nerves now. On smooth open roads it is still a joy.

Polo GTI : Although on paper it has the same DQ200 7 speed gear box, I am sure there are mechanical upgrades. For one this is a CBU made in the EU. There is a lot of talk of VW dumping old DQ200 boxes in third world countries

Great to know that you have the two most inspirational and great cars. Also good to know that your cars especially the DSG boxes are running fine. Please do share how much have your cars run till now. All the best ans happy mile munching

[Santoshbhat]

Originally Posted by Traveler

Great to know that you have the two most inspirational and great cars. Also good to know that your cars especially the DSG boxes are running fine. Please do share how much have your cars run till now. All the best ans happy mile munching

It turns out my math isn't that good. It's actually 5 years that my GT TSI has been with me. Current odo reading is around 30,000 kms. The GTI is at 16,000 kms .

[itwasntme]

Entering the 'danger zone' now on my 4 year + 56K km run Octavia TSI both with the mileage coupled with the impending end on my EW.

Nothing to report except a slight coughing (intermittent only) from the DSG only on aggressive upshifts (after driving like that for some time). Have mentioned to Skoda but without any resolution yet. Will again ensure it is on the job card when I go for the December service.

D3 to D2 is smooth and I modulate the accelerator to coax the DSG to stay in D2 if I know a slowing down is required soon. My office parking is irritating with speedbreakers every few 100 metres and I have mastered the art to ensure the DSG stays in D2 religiously.

Another trick is to get into Sports mode in moving but congested roads. Sports mode will hold D2 for far longer than Drive mode!