[Prabal]

Originally Posted by ajay99

of course there are fakes made in germany like in any other country.what i have mentioned is NOS GENUINE VW item which comes in old VW box packing (made in W germany) not the ones with audi and VW logos together !!!. regarding your friends tail pipes ,either he is plain lucky or he stays in a place far away from the sea, without humidity/corrosion problems. and also,if genuine VW german parts were not in demand they would not command such premium prices in the first place.

I don't understand the purpose of this argument from the time it started after the first suggestion that the blue VW Variant should be an easy project to restore well. So let me try one last time, since I do not wish to post an argument just for the heck of it yet again after this. And as I would only like to encourage someone who's thinking of picking up the gauntlet, if I may call it so, and acquiring this or any other old VW for restoration, do I make my humble submission. So,Here goes...

First of all, the contention is that it's fairly easy and inexpensive to restore most classic VWs (other than the early Type 1s as Karl is probably facing with his '56, with certain parts being rather thin on the ground and therefore expensive).

Now, to restore these classic VWs well one doesn't have to use NOS VW articles. We are not in search of the well-matured liquid stuff in bottles, barrels or casks!! OE or OE-spec replacement parts do the job just as well. Even for concours standards these are okay, they don't have to be NOS! If one still wishes to use NOS, it's an individual's choice. But even that doesn't make restoring a classic VW well an expensive proposition, in general and otherwise as I'll let on in at the end! That's the point of how this whole discussion started when it was suggested by the others that it should be easy to put this VW Variant through a great restoration at a reasonable cost.

Now, regarding those tail-pipes. My friend is not especially lucky. There are at least 10 more friends equally lucky, not necessarily with parts (and not tail-pipes only, please note) lasting 15 years in all cases, but fairly long in most of them! And a few do live in high humidity areas, although not necessarily by the sea. There are various 'non-German-but-OE spec-parts' on all these cars, and they are all doing rather well. And I belong to the category of VW owners too; we've had one or the other always in the family since the 50s. I'm sure that you come from the stand-point of one as well, or as a restorer of the brand. In either case, I agree with you that NOS parts are expensive, but that's not the point at all.

It's not necessary to use a NOS since OE-spec matching replacement are as good on the ground (apart from the kink in the mind of an NOS lover, that's all!) and these equally-good-as-OE parts need not be German. There are manufacturers in India, Taiwan, etc. who supplied OE to VW and are also certified as genuine replacement part suppliers for VW. But one has to have the ability to tell a good one from a lemon! Real hands-on experience in playing with VWs helps in that.

Getting good mechanics is the biggest problem in this whole endeavour. But, today there is also better understanding of methodical repairs as per the manufacturers' specifications. So, the right workshop manual and a mechanic who can decipher it and is of a disposition amenable to following the instructions (for example things like torque settings, which are critical with all the aluminium around!), or if you are so inclined too and can guide the process, should help you make a great home run!

And one more thing regarding, "NOS GENUINE VW item which comes in old VW box packing (made in W germany) not the ones with audi and VW logos together !!!," there were many such articles (considered NOS now) made outside West Germany in the olden days too, because like I said before, VW had assembly plants in 15 countries/locations (besides Wolfsburg, Emden and Hanover in W Germany) where around 45% of the total number of the bugs have been manufactured/assembled, with local OE parts suppliers to each other! So those hung-up on NOS, if you know where to look, one can get the so-called NOS too without having to pay a King's ransom!!

[ajay99]

[quote=Prabal;1296763]I don't understand the purpose of this argument from the time it started after the first suggestion that the blue VW Variant should be an easy project to restore well. So let me try one last time, since I do not wish to post an argument just for the heck of it yet again after this. And as I would only like to encourage someone who's thinking of picking up the gauntlet, if I may call it so, and acquiring this or any other old VW for restoration, do I make my humble submission. So,Here goes...

First of all, the contention is that it's fairly easy and inexpensive to restore most classic VWs (other than the early Type 1s as Karl is probably facing with his '56, with certain parts being rather thin on the ground and therefore expensive).

Now, to restore these classic VWs well one doesn't have to use NOS VW articles. We are not in search of the well-matured liquid stuff in bottles, barrels or casks!!

please dont bring ''spirits'' into this discussion.there are many teetotallers in this forum

OE or OE-spec replacement parts do the job just as well. Even for concours standards these are okay, they don't have to be NOS! If one still wishes to use NOS, it's an individual's choice. But even that doesn't make restoring a classic VW well an expensive proposition, in general and otherwise as I'll let on in at the end! That's the point of how this whole discussion started when it was suggested by the others that it should be easy to put this VW Variant through a great restoration at a reasonable cost.

Now, regarding those tail-pipes. My friend is not especially lucky. There are at least 10 more friends equally lucky, not necessarily with parts (and not tail-pipes only, please note) lasting 15 years in all cases, but fairly long in most of them! And a few do live in high humidity areas, although not necessarily by the sea. There are various 'non-German-but-OE spec-parts' on all these cars, and they are all doing rather well. And I belong to the category of VW owners too; we've had one or the other always in the family since the 50s. I'm sure that you come from the stand-point of one as well, or as a restorer of the brand. In either case, I agree with you that NOS parts are expensive, but that's not the point at all.

Thanks.that is the major specific point I wanted to make.NOS parts of any car cost much more than repro's .To cite another example, the parking lens assembly of Landmaster/MarkI ambassador was originally made by LUCAS (ENGLAND) and the lens was made of glass.here now repros are only available and a pair in BOX cost only Rs.500/- the lens being made of plastic and gets worn out by 6-12 months of use.The NOS variety made by LUCAS is a sought after item and costs if my info is correct around 12-15 GBP a piece.I can give innumerable examples of this.



It's not necessary to use a NOS since OE-spec matching replacement are as good on the ground (apart from the kink in the mind of an NOS lover, that's all!) and these equally-good-as-OE parts need not be German. There are manufacturers in India, Taiwan, etc. who supplied OE to VW and are also certified as genuine replacement part suppliers for VW. But one has to have the ability to tell a good one from a lemon! Real hands-on experience in playing with VWs helps in that.


I never ever said that one should use only NOS parts for restoration.

Getting good mechanics is the biggest problem in this whole endeavour. But, today there is also better understanding of methodical repairs as per the manufacturers' specifications. So, the right workshop manual and a mechanic who can decipher it and is of a disposition amenable to following the instructions (for example things like torque settings, which are critical with all the aluminium around!), or if you are so inclined too and can guide the process, should help you make a great home run!

And one more thing regarding, "NOS GENUINE VW item which comes in old VW box packing (made in W germany) not the ones with audi and VW logos together !!!," there were many such articles (considered NOS now) made outside West Germany in the olden days too, because like I said before, VW had assembly plants in 15 countries/locations (besides Wolfsburg, Emden and Hanover in W Germany) where around 45% of the total number of the bugs have been manufactured/assembled, with local OE parts suppliers to each other! So those hung-up on NOS, if you know where to look, one can get the so-called NOS too without having to pay a King's ransom!![

I am aware of the plants of VW outside Germany, but Prabhalji, please explain why there is a big price difference between, the Brazilian, Mexican, and German NOS parts. Also as far as my knowledge goes till 1980 type1,2,3 never had any OE parts supplier from TAIWAN or INDIA.
also to give another example: The fuel pump supplied to VW was Pierburg in Germany and Brosil to the VW manufactured in South american plants.
also one request, it will be a great help to many a restorer if you can state in this thread where we can get NOS genuine VW parts at ''cheap'' rates since you have been repeatedly saying so!!

[greenhorn]

At this rate, 20 years down the line, we'll have die hard rover fans arguing that the cityrover should be restored using made in india Lucas TVS parts, rather than the equivalent Lucas parts available in the UK

[V-16]

Originally Posted by Prabal

The most important thing to do of course is to acquire a hat first. A Havanos (or Behike if you want to be the best!!) adds more gravitas, while a jaunty stride, and polishing up the diction (suitably modifying it rather) also come along magically.

....Or a Stetson or a golf cap, whatever it is called.

If headgear were to be the solely responsible for one's knowledge, i would be quite a number then

[awini]

Originally Posted by ajay99;1296834
[I

also one request, it will be a great help to many a restorer if you can state in this thread where we can get NOS genuine VW parts at ''cheap'' rates since you have been repeatedly saying so!![/i]

ah, thats a secret, if we tell you then our source will dry up fast, and as a VW owner whose car has been roadworthy since it was bought 1966,i would second what prabal says.

[Prabal]

Originally Posted by greenhorn

At this rate, 20 years down the line, we'll have die hard rover fans arguing that the cityrover should be restored using made in india Lucas TVS parts, rather than the equivalent Lucas parts available in the UK

Good one there, greenhorn, took me a second read to get it. Very apt.

Originally Posted by V-16

If headgear were to be the solely responsible for one's knowledge, i would be quite a number then

Spot on, paaji. Only problem is, that you sport the wonderful colours and patterns of India. Our strutting friends (not all though, I must hasten to add, to save my skin!) are bhure firangs in disguise!!

Originally Posted by awini

ah, thats a secret, if we tell you then our source will dry up fast, and as a VW owner whose car has been roadworthy since it was bought 1966,i would second what prabal says.

Awini, you've really summed it up well. One, the resources are there but to share with the actual end users only. Two, hopefully the prospective restorers, old hands or new enthusiasts, are encouraged to look at this Variant and other classic VW projects knowing that it's an easy marque to restore and live with - okay maybe not always easy to live with, but not a financial drain either, and a joy for most of the times.

[ajay99]

Originally Posted by awini

ah, thats a secret, if we tell you then our source will dry up fast, and as a VW owner whose car has been roadworthy since it was bought 1966,i would second what prabal says.

ok awini, keep that "secret''' well guarded, lest in these days of too much transparency it gets '"'leaked'' by some one !!!.

[ajay99]

Originally Posted by greenhorn

At this rate, 20 years down the line, we'll have die hard rover fans arguing that the cityrover should be restored using made in india Lucas TVS parts, rather than the equivalent Lucas parts available in the UK

first of all city rover can never have LUCAS parts, because LUCAS ceased to exist many many years ago!!! also I would request you and prabhal to have a look at the SS80 thread where you can see the number of guys who are restoring our good old maruti and are probing all over the place for OE SGP(suzuki genuine parts) and suppliers items like DENSO fuel pumps, MIKUNI carburretor, Tokai denso lenses,etc. One can always ask why take the trouble,why cant they just buy and use LUMAX lenses, UCAL carburretor(licensee of MIKUNI) ,etc. after all these are also OE MGP(maruti genuine parts).In my humble understanding,Restoration means, getting the car exactly back to what it was when it was taken out of the showroom at the time of delivery(that includes if possible even the stickers/labels) correct me If i am wrong/mislead

[wasif]

Originally Posted by ajay99

first of all city rover can never have LUCAS parts, because LUCAS ceased to exist many many years ago!!! also I would request you and prabhal to have a look at the SS80 thread where you can see the number of guys who are restoring our good old maruti and are probing all over the place for OE SGP(suzuki genuine parts) and suppliers items like DENSO fuel pumps, MIKUNI carburretor, Tokai denso lenses,etc. One can always ask why take the trouble,why cant they just buy and use LUMAX lenses, UCAL carburretor(licensee of MIKUNI) ,etc. after all these are also OE MGP(maruti genuine parts).In my humble understanding,Restoration means, getting the car exactly back to what it was when it was taken out of the showroom at the time of delivery(that includes if possible even the stickers/labels) correct me If i am wrong/mislead

I used to have a original 800 bought new from MUL. This car and all that I remember came with Stanley light lenses, sealed beams in front and the regular items at the rear.

My car was as original as could be with the exception of a set of headers. Got it painted once and was able to get the correct red colour 800 badge for the front grille.

Said car was then wrecked one night, very sad.

[ajay99]

Originally Posted by wasif

I used to have a original 800 bought new from MUL. This car and all that I remember came with Stanley light lenses, sealed beams in front and the regular items at the rear.

My car was as original as could be with the exception of a set of headers. Got it painted once and was able to get the correct red colour 800 badge for the front grille.

Said car was then wrecked one night, very sad.

wasif bhai, what I was mentioning is about the 1984-1986 SS80 maruti, and sorry,the 800 badge did not come in red colour as OE, it came with silvery grey(brushed silver ) with a black background ,see Jai3033 's photos

[JayD]

Originally Posted by ajay99

wasif bhai, what I was mentioning is about the 1984-1986 SS80 maruti, and sorry,the 800 badge did not come in red colour as OE, it came with silvery grey(brushed silver ) with a black background ,see Jai3033 's photos

Sorry ajay. But you are wrong. The ss80 (atleast the initial batches) did come with a red 800 badge. If you want to confirm, pls check out the pic of the first 800 rollout, a red car, the badge can be clearly seen. Also, a pic of DIA 6479,harpal singhs car, The first ss80 sold in india, will confirm the same.

[vcash]

Not sure if this is the correct area to post this - Has anyone heard or seen classic BMW's from the 60's and 70's. I have never seen any documentation for 1500's 1800's 2002's etc?

These would make nice purchases and would compliment mercs of that era as well.

[V-16]

Oh these brilliant cars were not so oft imported as the Mercs. But i have seen a few examples and i have sadly learnt of their demise in a scrapyard.

There were more 1500s than 1800s, 2000s and 2002s. I remember very few of the 2002s. A friend had one till a few years ago and had even imported a huge parts consignment including the window and door rubbers and the rear tail light lenses from Iran. The car got into a problem with the restorer and it just sank in the ground after all the body work was done. Sad.

A few of these parts are still available if someone is interested.
I remember a mid 60's 2000 CS for sale in great condition. The lilac coloured beauty was often seen by me driven by an industrialist but it used to be off white first. When i found it was for sale, many many moons ago, i jumped. I took a test drive and the price was really steep in those days, especially for me a student, whose pocket money didnt get him through the month even. With my meagre means i tried to convince the guy to sell the car to me at a price much lower but was refused politely.

The car was picked up by a dealer who sold it to a young chap (with money) The car disappeared till a few years later it was seen in black, stripped of all its jewellery and its wonderful wheel caps, badges and trims. Someone had vandalised it. It was for sale for 50K. I again jumped, this time with the money but on reaching there the car had gone and i never saw it again.

Here is a pic of a similar car.

[wasif]

Originally Posted by JayD

Sorry ajay. But you are wrong. The ss80 (atleast the initial batches) did come with a red 800 badge. If you want to confirm, pls check out the pic of the first 800 rollout, a red car, the badge can be clearly seen. Also, a pic of DIA 6479,harpal singhs car, The first ss80 sold in india, will confirm the same.

Absolutely true, mine was a 84 bought for 55K from Mul I later found a DX which was white and we raided it for all its deluxe parts and upgraded mine. I ended up with an air conditioned car with the original tinted windows and very nice dark brown leather interior.

We even took off the a/c compressor kill swith which was located beneath the accelerator pedal for the sake of cutting out the compressor on full acceleration. nobody could say the car was not a factory deluxe.

The first batch of cars actually did come with the red 800 badge on the front. Very rare to find a replacment then and I'm sure impossible now.

[ajay99]

Originally Posted by wasif

Absolutely true, mine was a 84 bought for 55K from Mul I later found a DX which was white and we raided it for all its deluxe parts and upgraded mine. I ended up with an air conditioned car with the original tinted windows and very nice dark brown leather interior.

We even took off the a/c compressor kill swith which was located beneath the accelerator pedal for the sake of cutting out the compressor on full acceleration. nobody could say the car was not a factory deluxe.

The first batch of cars actually did come with the red 800 badge on the front. Very rare to find a replacment then and I'm sure impossible now.

maybe the intial few months delivered cars had that type of badge.
Actually the first car in KERALA was delivered only in 1984 NOVEMBER( of course there were few cars which had come out of other states already plying) and that car came with the type of badge I mentioned