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Old 21st November 2018, 20:28   #316
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

Quote:
Originally Posted by sri_tesla View Post
Thanks for great real time use case which elaborates my point of having rooftop solar.

Can you post the complete cost details of your solar setup (3KW system) and any subsidy you received from state/central govts.

From what I could gather online, 3 KW system costs Rs 1,86,000 (Rs 62,000 per KW). 5 KW system costs Rs 3,10,000 and 10 KW system costs Rs 6,20,000.
These prices includes complete system (solar panels, invertors, meters, cables) and installation.

https://www.loomsolar.com/collection...ds_trina-solar

So, a 3 KW or 5KW system could cover entire electricity and fuel costs for most people for many years.
3.1L for 5KW is on a higher side. The prices have come down considerably and last year I had received a quote of 2.8L for 5KW. So this year, I am expecting <2.5L for a 5KW setup. A 5KW setup will generate ~500-600 Units per month which is more than enough to cover the electricity consumption of an above average house with enough spare electricity to drive an EV for 500-1000KM.

My solar system was setup in Feb 2016 for which I paid INR2.3L without any subsidy. I took quotes from Bosch, Tata, Sukam, Microtech and a few other providers. The cheapest quote I received were from Microtech ~1.9 L after subsidy and Sukam 2.1L after subsidy. Bosch and Tata were expensive by 10-20K. I preferred Tata, but their service was pathetic where I had to keep following up for the quotes. Bosch was just an aggregator and they were not using any Bosch product. Instead they were installing Solar panels and Inverters from a Bangalore based company. Hence I finalized Sukam since they had their in house inverters and Panels were from Vikram Solar which was the same panels used by Tata. Getting subsidy from Govt had its own set of bureaucratic harassment and so I asked Sukam for a revised quote without subsidy. We were able to negotiate it to 2.3L without subsidy and the installation was completed in less than 2 weeks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
Thanks for the information @Holyghost. If we consider a bigger car you need to double the setup that you use for generating power for your home and vehicle. Its still a big investment. But the environment will happy
For an EV, the investment is minuscule and will pay for itself in a couple of years. Considering an average running of 1000KM per month, following will be the amount of electricity you need per month and the solar setup required to generate that much electricity.

To cover 1000KM normal driving with AC:
Tesla Model S needs ~ 200KWh - 2KW Solar setup ~ 1.5L
Chevy Bolt needs - ~ 170KWh - - same as above -
Tesla Model 3 needs ~ 150KWh - 1.5KW Solar Setup ~ 1L
Hyundai Ioniq needs ~ 150KWh - 1.5KW Solar Setup ~ 1L
Mahindra e2o needs ~ 110KWh - 1KW Solar Setup Rs70K
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Old 21st November 2018, 23:21   #317
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Sir, Is the above cost is inclusive battery also? If yes, what is the type and capacity of the battery? How often we have to change the battery? What will be the cost for it?

Do we have any supplier who supplies solar panels like the roof tiles, suppled by Tesla. In Kerala, many congrete terrace houses have Aluminum/steel roofing so as to reduce heat. If solar roof is available, with a fraction of extra cost, many people will opt for it.

Last edited by ontheroad : 21st November 2018 at 23:26.
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Old 21st November 2018, 23:26   #318
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

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Originally Posted by Holyghost View Post
3.1L for 5KW is on a higher side. The prices have come down considerably and last year I had received a quote of 2.8L for 5KW. So this year, I am expecting <2.5L for a 5KW setup. A 5KW setup will generate ~500-600 Units per month which is more than enough to cover the electricity consumption of an above average house with enough spare electricity to drive an EV for 500-1000KM.

Thanks those pricing are insane as i thought it was more closer to a 4lakhs for a 5kwh setup. How much is the e2o for? You literally would have spent about 15k for fuel for 3000 kms this year.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheroad View Post
Sir, Is the above cost is inclusive battery also? If yes, what is the type and capacity of the battery? How often we have to change the battery? What will be the cost for it?

Am assuming its a panels only as its a grid tie with net metering.



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Old 22nd November 2018, 00:11   #319
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheroad View Post
Sir, Is the above cost is inclusive battery also? If yes, what is the type and capacity of the battery? How often we have to change the battery? What will be the cost for it?

Do we have any supplier who supplies solar panels like the roof tiles, suppled by Tesla. In Kerala, many congrete terrace houses have Aluminum/steel roofing so as to reduce heat. If solar roof is available, with a fraction of extra cost, many people will opt for it.
No batteries, it is a Grid-Tie setup.

The roof tiles which Tesla showcased is still a concept. It is still not available for public after the initial bookings were closed. They have been deploying the tiles to very few customers on test basis. So it is too early to expect such products in India.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maddy42 View Post
Thanks those pricing are insane as i thought it was more closer to a 4lakhs for a 5kwh setup. How much is the e2o for? You literally would have spent about 15k for fuel for 3000 kms this year.
I picked up a 2014 e2o for 3L as a stop gap until I can get hold of a better EV. I was waiting to buy the Tiago/Tigor EV as soon as it is launched, irrespective of the price. I think now I could wait for more options like the EV versions of the KUV, Wagon R and the likes.
I had also booked E2O Plus last year, but had to cancel the booking after an extensive test drive. The E2O Plus couldn't climb the steep incline from my garage in a convincing manner. However, the E2O 2 door with its lower weight feels much more powerful and can do the same slope easily.
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Old 23rd November 2018, 13:13   #320
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

With the new govt. policies allowing change of ICE engines to 100% EV, are there any providers who can do this in India (preferably Bangalore area)? I check with altigreen and they said while their hybrid solution is ready, the EV solution is still under development.
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Old 23rd November 2018, 14:18   #321
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

Volvo cars seeks clarity from government on EV infrastructure.

Quote:
In pursuit of its aim to bring cleaner cars in India, Volvo Cars is looking for a standard infrastructure norm from the Government side. The company has paused work towards EV infrastructure in want of policy clarity
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Old 23rd November 2018, 15:35   #322
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

@volkman10; I also saw the article. Also, note that Volvo seems to be keen on Hybrids. Now I have moved off, since we save the power plant with a pure EV. Also, the vehicle can be more compact and efficient. I think this is increasingly an overriding issue.
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Old 29th November 2018, 11:13   #323
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

Delhi’s new draft electric vehicle policy has been described as “strong” and “comprehensive” ... but glaring gaps - where is the road map to supporting infrastructure?

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Old 30th November 2018, 07:27   #324
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

American startup Rivian introduced their electric vehicles at LA auto show:

Background of Rivian:
Rivian is founded by MIT graduate RJ Scaringe in 2009 and working in stealth mode all these years. They have funding of ~500 million from the likes of Sumitomo corporation and loan from Standard chartered bank. Rivian acquired 2.6 million sft ex-Mitsubishi factory in January, 2017 located in Normal, Illinois.

At LA auto show they revealed two products (R1T pickup truck and R1S SUV) both based on same skateboard platform shown below. Both vehicles will be available by end of 2020 starting with mid/high range variants and base variant will be available later.

The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive-2018_11_chassis_front_34_edited1440x759.jpg

Both vehicles comes in 3 variants with different battery capacities and ranges:
The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive-riviancombined.jpg


1. Rivian R1T pick up truck:

The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive-2018_11_h.rivian_r1t_beach1440x879.jpg

The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive-2018_11_c.rivian_r1t_frunk1440x810.jpg

The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive-rivian-r1t-front.jpg

The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive-rivian1-1.jpg

The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive-rivian1.jpg

The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive-rivian1-2.jpg

R1S SUV:
Attached Thumbnails
The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive-2018_11_a.rivian_r1s_front1440x1080.jpg  

The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive-2018_11_c.rivian_r1s_interior_cutaway1440x889.jpg  

The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive-rivianlaautoshow016e1543510798685.jpg  

The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive-rivianlaautoshow017e1543510792433.jpg  

The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive-rivianlaautoshow023e1543510753782.jpg  

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Old 30th November 2018, 08:11   #325
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

Volkswagen is skeptical of the acceptance of EV's in the volume segment, will look at alternate fuels like CNG, etc.
Will bring EV's in the Premium segment.

High costs and lack of clarity on 'EV policies' from the government are added reasons for this too.

Quote:
in India an electric car's CO2 footprint is "no less" than that of a BS VI car. And that's because of fossil fuel as a major source of electricity generation in India
Quote:
Let's not forget if we get electrics, the batteries are going to come from China. We may be assembling the batteries here but the cells will still be imported
Quote:
The German group doesn't see business viability for electric vehicles (EV) in the volume segment, primarily due to high battery costs and, secondly, a lack of clarity "on what the government intends doing". "Right now, the economics of electrics work for premium cars, and not for everyday cars. Those just do not work
However VW will bring the AUDI e-tron , for sale in India in 2019.
Quote:
The electric mobility play for the Volkswagen Group is likely to remain only in the premium space for some time.

Source:

Last edited by volkman10 : 30th November 2018 at 08:29.
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Old 30th November 2018, 09:24   #326
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

Quote:
Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Volkswagen is skeptical of the acceptance of EV's in the volume segment, will look at alternate fuels like CNG, etc.
Will bring EV's in the Premium segment.

High costs and lack of clarity on 'EV policies' from the government are added reasons for this too.

in India an electric car's CO2 footprint is "no less" than that of a BS VI car. And that's because of fossil fuel as a major source of electricity generation in India

Its true that govt's EV policies lacks vision and bringing in premium EVs initially might be a good idea, but claiming EV CO2 footprint will be same as fossil fuel cars is pathetic. There are multiple research reports from US and Europe proving coal powered EV is still much more efficient and less polluting than ICE vehicles. More efficient EV like Tesla Model 3 produces even less CO2 of 167 grams.

For example, in West Virginia state coal power share is ~95% (much higher than India). Even there, a full-electric EV produces 206 grams of CO2 while ICE vehicle produces 381 grams of CO2.
https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicle...20Long%20Range

In China also, major source of power is coal but VW is building a new 400,000 EVs per year plant there. India adding record amount of renewable energy for the last 3-4 years. In the first 6 months of 2018, we added more solar than US. Coal power plant load factors are down a lot because of renewable energy and low demand. States like Karnataka, Tamilnadu, Andhra Pradesh have more renewable capacity than many European nations.

India is the largest market globally for auction of new renewable energy generation projects and the second-largest destination attracting clean energy investments.
https://energy.economictimes.indiati...world/66822794

There is so much non-sense in that interview its just disgusting. He is saying that even if they assemble batteries in India they need to bring cells from China. But its true for Audi e-tron or upcoming Porsche Taycan as well. They will be selling them all over the world but sourcing from China or Korea.

VW India announces a new strategy for every 2-3 years and thousands of crores investments and new market share targets. In which other country they are betting on CNG? Most likely they will change their strategy after 2 years again blaming govt policies.
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Old 5th December 2018, 09:08   #327
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

VW just announced that their last vehicle with combustion engine (petrol/diesel) will be in 2026. After that they will completely focus on electric cars.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-vo...-idUKKBN1O32O6

I strongly believe they will be changing their timelines over the next 1-2 years and their last ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) vehicle will be at least 2-3 years earlier than this. Even if they make any ICE vehicles after 2025, they will be irrelevant.
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Old 12th December 2018, 10:43   #328
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

Honda develops NEW FLUORIDE-ION battery with NASA.

Honda has yet to indicate how far away this technology is from being commercially viable.

Quote:
chief scientist at the Honda Research Institute, and one of the paper's co-authors, fluoride-ion batteries have around 10 times more energy density than lithium-based units.
Quote:
Unlike lithium-ion batteries, FIBs do not pose a safety risk due to overheating, and obtaining the source materials for FIBs creates considerably less environmental impact than the extraction process for lithium and cobalt
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Old 12th December 2018, 17:50   #329
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EV sales in China continue to grow at rapid pace. In October, EV sales grew 84.8% (YoY) to reach 119,793 units. EV sales now account for 5.85% of market share.
EV sales increasing their market share each month in China. In November, EV sales reached 6.5% of total passenger vehicle sales growing 63% compared to November 2017. On the other hand ICE (petrol/diesel) sales are down a whopping ~ -20% compared to November 2018.

First time in 2 decades, China automobile sales are going to report negative growth in 2018. Negative growth for ICE sales and exponential growth of EVs means, all the automobile biggies will find it hard in the next 1-2 years as they are relying on worlds biggest market for growth. Hundreds of EVs are going to be released in China over next 1-2 years from many Chinese companies like BYD, BAIC, etc... and startups like NIO, Xpeng, Byton, etc...
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Old 17th December 2018, 09:14   #330
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Tata power to setup 1000 charging stations for EVs in NCR region with investment of Rs 70 crore. Tata power currently have 21 charging stations in Mumbai, Delhi and Hyderabad. Apart from 1000 new charging stations in NCR, they will also setup 100 in Mumbai.

Tata power will tie up with govt oil marketing companies like Indian Oil, Bharat petroleum, Hindustan petroleum for infrastructure (land). They will also partner with entities, such as malls, metro rail stations, hospitals, hotels, etc, beside own franchisees.

https://www.business-standard.com/ar...1700018_1.html
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