[diyguy]

Originally Posted by itwasntme

Using paid shipping or free? Please list out your switches / plugs / devices for our benefit.

I used free shipping china registered post.
I started my home automation with Xiaomi devices. I have a smattering of about 25 devices which include motion sensors, wifi led bulbs, gateway devices and speakers/light, door open sensors, smart sockets, smart spike buster, wireless security cameras, wireless switches and a smart cube which can be programmed to activate any xiaomi device on its movement, shake etc. The issue with these devices is that they need a smart phone to control sometimes.
I wanted a device to switch on and off my water pump without having to go outside and needed it to be run by my mom who cannot use a smart phone. So found the sonoff range of devices. Purchased a sonoff pro which could connect four 10A devices or two 16A devices and could be controlled by the mobile app or a RF remote. This one got spoilt within a week and I got a replacement free by the seller. However it was not very clear how to connect one 16A to two gangs properly in this. So I then purchased the sonoff pow which is rated for 16A and bought 5 of them.
I had two Amazon Echo Dots lying idle for a year and suddenly found they work very well with the sonoff and voila now could control the motor and acs etc with voice.
Some of the automation is for when the main door opens the gateway devices in the living room, dining room and my bedroom rings. When anyone walks in the living room either ground floor or first, the stair case lights come on for 1 minute and this works after dark only.
The wireless switch turns on/off my hall TV, STB and Bose Cinemate. The smart cube switches on my BR tv, STB and bose cinemate, and on shaking it turns on my Amazon Fire TV and WD Media Player.

The very first project I did was to create a timer based switch for my water heaters. I purchased a 16A timer control switch (mechanical) which can be programmed to turn off the heater automatically on 4 minutes. This device is not very reliable and has conked out in both my bathrooms. For supporting 16A, the wiring is a bit different and I think I did not fully understand this earlier. However for safety I had also connected to it a RCB and a fuse-able plug for the water heater. However since the timer has stopped working I currently do not have a reliable power saver solution here. My daughter would leave the heater switched on whole day and thus used to bug me . The 4 minute timer would automatically switch off the heater once the switch was turned on. In India Havells have this staircase timer (its called) but they have stopped selling it.

The sonoff devices also have scheduled timers built in which can turn on and off the device at a specific time, which I use for my outside LED battens.

One word of caution though, when you play with these devices in high power applications please build in protection like a RCBO and MCB that can protect in case of sparking or any other such short circuit or heat situation. Do not assume that these devices are safe.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by nik0502

My one month old Daikin inverter AC which has not run for more than 10-15 days so far stopped cooling yesterday. Tried changing modes but did not cool in all the modes available. Gave up after few restarts and called up Daikin who promised a technician visit in 4 hours. 6 hours gone and no one showed up. Called them again to fix an appointment for today since I was leaving for work. Tried starting the AC today and it started cooling again. The technician came and refused to look at the unit since it was cooling now and asked me to raise complaint again if it stops cooling. Really confused at this moment. Does anyone know what could be the issue.

Check if the AC starts and does not cool, or starts and then stops.

My two year old Daikin inverter behaved similarly. It would start and then stop. Traced it to the fan not starting. A few light blows solved it. I suspect a loose connection, most probably due to water corroding the contacts during washing by service personnel.

[sgiitk]

@Aroy; I think modern units frown at washing, but the service personnel have a habit of doing it. I hope they learn some day. I had fan failures on my Hitachi 5* Window and Daikin Inverter for the same reason.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

@Aroy; I think modern units frown at washing, but the service personnel have a habit of doing it. I hope they learn some day. I had fan failures on my Hitachi 5* Window and Daikin Inverter for the same reason.

In my case I have to wash the window AC's. The reasons are

1. Within two months both the front and the rear heat exchangers get clogged with mud. (dust + water).

2. The clogging is proportionate to the number of stars!!!!. The reason is that our 0 star AC's had a wide spacing between the fins. The latest Hitachi 5 star has just enough space between the fins to slide a thick paper. The reasons for the fine pitch is thermal efficiency, but in this dusty Delhi the fine pitch is a dust collector par excellence.

In short the effect of clogging is evident in the air throw slowly decreasing over two months till the AC barely cools. The only solution is to get the AC fins washed at least twice a year and at times three times. The amount of muck that comes out is to be seen to be believed.

All this washing, dismantling and putting back has a toll - the fans get damaged and in each and every AC over the past twenty years the fan gives up after three or four years.

The only solution that I can see is to get a split unit with custom IDU which is extra wide with at least 1mm pitch for the fins.

[Brumby]

Originally Posted by dre@ms

I was not referring to the additional materials. The installation kit itself needs to be procured separately along with the indoor/outdoor units.

Yes, extra material is always required for installation.

Originally Posted by Aroy

The extra cost is also there for Diakin.

Regarding price of copper pipe and cable, please inquire where the market for AC components is. Then go there and find the price of the pipes. Just inquire for Malaysian copper pipe and not other. For the specifications of the pipe diameter and wall thickness go to the Mitsubishi site. It will be there with AC specs. For length just ask the installer to estimate and get a couple of meters extra.

https://www.mitsubishielectric.in/ai...-gn-series.php

Advised strongly against this if you want the warranty claims to be easier to process. Details of the specifications were quoted, because they become hinderance to a warranty claim process.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Saving electricity is only one potential reason to buy an inverter AC. Another is that they simply work better, giving much more comfort. Bank balance allowing, therefore, it is a valid option to buy as a luxury purchase.

(Hmmm... "they simply work better," assumes long-term reliability, of course.)

Saving electricity is one controversial subject. We all save some and waste some. My idea was that for low usage, an inverter AC does not make any economical sense, and there are always small amount of losses when the alternating current is converted to direct current and then back to alternating current, but no body talks about that. Reason being the comparative losses are too small to the gains if you run the machine for more than 8-10 hrs daily. On similar grounds the amount of money paid for the extra tech is too high to gain the benefits if running is low.

For a mandatory electricity saving, I like the idea of the European union, non-inverter ACs are not on sale anymore (a European colleague at work shared this info, so I might be wrong here).

For me, I save electricity by setting the temperature at 26 degrees C with ceiling fan at mid-setting, helps a lot if its just about comfortable sleep and prevents thermal shock to the body. I have seen a lot of people (within my family and others) using 18-22 degrees set point in peak summer and then using fan at high speed along with blankets, a sheer waste of energy.

Originally Posted by nik0502

My one month old Daikin inverter AC which has not run for more than 10-15 days so far stopped cooling yesterday. Tried changing modes but did not cool in all the modes available. Gave up after few restarts and called up Daikin who promised a technician visit in 4 hours. 6 hours gone and no one showed up. Called them again to fix an appointment for today since I was leaving for work. Tried starting the AC today and it started cooling again. The technician came and refused to look at the unit since it was cooling now and asked me to raise complaint again if it stops cooling. Really confused at this moment. Does anyone know what could be the issue.

For how long did you let it run after first start, apologies for asking this question, but it happens with us many times, we get impatient sometimes and if the cooling does not start immediately we keep changing the modes, where as the control system might be running without cooling for some and carrying out some checks. A hardware related issue might crop up again, what was strange was that the technician refused to take a look and do some checks. With high level of automation it is very difficult to pinpoint the issue with this much of information.

Next time it happens, let the machine run for 10-15 minutes without changing the mode. If it doesn't start the compressor (ODU) then the best option is to call the technician and a video recording will help him understand the issue and of course, a claim under guarantee. I personally will not agree for repair for such a new machine and will ask for a replacement (completely depends on one's negotiation skills).

Cheers

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by Aroy

... the fans get damaged and in each and every AC over the past twenty years the fan gives up after three or four years.
....

A tad extreme!! Do visit my home (close to yours) and see my window units that have not suffered a fan failure for 17 years, despite regular wet servicing.

[Brumby]

Originally Posted by Aroy

In my case I have to wash the window AC's. The reasons are

1. Within two months both the front and the rear heat exchangers get clogged with mud. (dust + water).

2. The clogging is proportionate to the number of stars!!!!. The reason is that our 0 star AC's had a wide spacing between the fins. The latest Hitachi 5 star has just enough space between the fins to slide a thick paper. The reasons for the fine pitch is thermal efficiency, but in this dusty Delhi the fine pitch is a dust collector par excellence.

In short the effect of clogging is evident in the air throw slowly decreasing over two months till the AC barely cools. The only solution is to get the AC fins washed at least twice a year and at times three times. The amount of muck that comes out is to be seen to be believed.

All this washing, dismantling and putting back has a toll - the fans get damaged and in each and every AC over the past twenty years the fan gives up after three or four years.

The only solution that I can see is to get a split unit with custom IDU which is extra wide with at least 1mm pitch for the fins.

All the air conditioning units for home use have an IP rating which is capable of handling water sprays, else we would be installing them completely indoors under covered areas. So an occasional spray should not be a problem except that a water jet is targeted directly on the fan motor or bearings.

May be you look into the installation part, the guys who come for installation are no specialists and usually have no idea about the working of the machine, except for the minimum size of the space required for installation. A slightly twisted/deformed base after final fitment may lead to early failure of bearings on the fans. An imbalanced fan rotor too will lead to failure, so do carry out a check on the fan balancing by rotating with hand, and it should not stop at the same place every time.

Regards.

[nik0502]

Originally Posted by Aroy

Check if the AC starts and does not cool, or starts and then stops.



My two year old Daikin inverter behaved similarly. It would start and then stop. Traced it to the fan not starting. A few light blows solved it. I suspect a loose connection, most probably due to water corroding the contacts during washing by service personnel.

Sir,

The AC is brand new. It doesn't start I believe since my stabiliser makes a noise when the compressor turns on and it was not making that noise when it was not cooling.

Originally Posted by Brumby

Yes, extra material is always required for installation.
================
Next time it happens, let the machine run for 10-15 minutes without changing the mode. If it doesn't start the compressor (ODU) then the best option is to call the technician and a video recording will help him understand the issue and of course, a claim under guarantee. I personally will not agree for repair for such a new machine and will ask for a replacement (completely depends on one's negotiation skills).

Cheers

Sir,

The very first time I noticed this issue is when I was sleeping with AC on and woke up because of uncomfortable temperature. The AC was on for more than 4-5 hours however it was not cooling. I tried restarting multiple times but did not help. It was next day When I tried changing the modes. I run the AC at 27. So don't remember if it was cooling when I turned it on. Also if I remember correctly the fan on IDU was moving when I checked. I thought it to be a gas leak issue so thought of checking the pipes for condensation but the pipes were covered with the white insulation so could not check them.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by Aroy

In my case I have to wash the window AC's. The reasons are

1. Within two months both the front and the rear heat exchangers get clogged with mud. (dust + water).

2. The clogging is proportionate to the number of stars!!!!. The reason is that our 0 star AC's had a wide spacing between the fins. The latest Hitachi 5 star has just enough space between the fins to slide a thick paper. The reasons for the fine pitch is thermal efficiency, but in this dusty Delhi the fine pitch is a dust collector par excellence.

Could you not have used a vacuum cleaner or (even better) a blower for the same job. Those would not have resulted in the water damage. I resort to a wash only in the worst case.

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Could you not have used a vacuum cleaner or (even better) a blower for the same job. . ...

Not quite. The dirt build up is not dry and will not get blown away with a sharp gust of wind. This stuff in Delhi is kinda sticky and needs at least water, if not water and a bit of soap, to remove it.

[fine69]

Please help with the type of Split AC selection for 3 rooms.

1) Two Master Bedrooms - AC would be used for a minimum of 12 hours everyday (even upto 20 hours on weekend) for 8-9 months.

I was thinking either Daikin or Mitsubishi, for a budget of 50-55k, what would be the models to choose from?

2) Living Room - a 2.2 TR unit but it would be sparingly used, maybe use it for parties in the living room on weekends, 1-2 hours on some days. It'll mostly be biting dust I reckon.

Do I still choose from a Daikin/Mitsubishi non-inverter unit or any other brand?

How is O-General as a brand, I've only had experience with Daikin's FTKP unit at my wife's office and its running flawlessly for the last 3 years but O-General is also known for its reliability I guess, not sure about the after-sales service though.

[Brumby]

Originally Posted by nik0502

I thought it to be a gas leak issue so thought of checking the pipes for condensation but the pipes were covered with the white insulation so could not check them.

In case of gas leak and no cooling, the ODU will either not run or keep short cycling (continuously start and stop), the compressor has a low suction stop/trip, so gas leak might not be the issue as you said you keep the temperature at 27. As it is the unit is now cooling to your satisfaction so just wait and watch.

As a precautionary measure all the AC owners must run their units for at least 30 minutes to 1 hour at lowest temperature setting to run the machine on full load. This should be done at least once in three months irrespective of the weather conditions and at least once a month must run the machine at a temperature where the compressor cuts in (means the cooling starts) for atleast 15 minutes.

Originally Posted by anupmathur

Not quite. The dirt build up is not dry and will not get blown away with a sharp gust of wind. This stuff in Delhi is kinda sticky and needs at least water, if not water and a bit of soap, to remove it.

For wet cleaning, use a soft brush (a hair dyeing brush helps) and liquid soap on the fins. Use a hand pump spray to clean the soap. Use generous amount of water with the hand spray to completely clean the heat exchanger (there should be no residual soap). Cleaning the fan blades is a bit tricky, as any residue on the blades will lead to an imbalanced rotor and might lead to failure of bearings, if not monitored well may lead to complete failure of the motor. I use a tooth brush for cleaning the fan blades as it helps to reach the area well, but it requires a lot of time to get a proper cleaning.

Originally Posted by fine69

Please help with the type of Split AC selection for 3 rooms.

1) Two Master Bedrooms - AC would be used for a minimum of 12 hours everyday (even upto 20 hours on weekend) for 8-9 months.

I was thinking either Daikin or Mitsubishi, for a budget of 50-55k, what would be the models to choose from?

2) Living Room - a 2.2 TR unit but it would be sparingly used, maybe use it for parties in the living room on weekends, 1-2 hours on some days. It'll mostly be biting dust I reckon.

Do I still choose from a Daikin/Mitsubishi non-inverter unit or any other brand?

How is O-General as a brand, I've only had experience with Daikin's FTKP unit at my wife's office and its running flawlessly for the last 3 years but O-General is also known for its reliability I guess, not sure about the after-sales service though.

The kind of usage you have for bedrooms, its highly recommended to have inverter ACs, Mitsubishi, Daikin or O-General all are good, though I do not have the service experience of Mitsubishi or O-General. Carrier provides very good after sales service and is equally good as well.

As you mentioned, any 3-5 star AC without inverter will meet the requirements for the living room.

You can also look into a multi-split unit between one of the bedrooms and the living room. A 2.5 to 3 ton inverter unit will help to set up the multi-split unit. It will use same ODU but will have one IDU each in the bedroom and the living room. I am not sure about the cost though, you need to find out that from the dealer.

Regards

[adimicra]

Any opinion on Lloyds ACs?
They have been acquired by Havells and spending a lot on advertisements with big film stars like Amitabh Bachham Maheshbabu,Mohanlal. I checked their website, the features and specifications look good to me and the pricing is very competitive (slightly below the other brands like LG)

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by fine69

.......
1) Two Master Bedrooms - AC would be used for a minimum of 12 hours everyday (even upto 20 hours on weekend) for 8-9 months.

I was thinking either Daikin or Mitsubishi, for a budget of 50-55k, what would be the models to choose from?

2) Living Room - a 2.2 TR unit but it would be sparingly used, maybe use it for parties in the living room on weekends, 1-2 hours on some days. It'll mostly be biting dust I reckon.
.
.........

. If you run AC in both bedrooms then you need at least 2 x 1.5T capacity.
. A gathering of even 15 persons will need more than 3T cooling. The ideal capacity is 1T for every 4 to 5 persons and a ton for each 1000 cubic feet. Hence a 15 x 20 x 9 foot hall with 15 persons will need around 2.7 + 3 = 5.7T AC at peak 40+ ambient and 22 room temperature. In my friend circle even 4 x 1.5T AC struggle when there are 20 persons.

In case you run the bedroom AC's simultaneously at night and the living room in day time, then a VRF system of around 3 to 4 tons should do. It will have
. One IDU in bedrooms rated at 1.5T each
. One IDU in living room rated at 3T to 4T or two rated at 2T each
. One ODU of 3T to 4T (depending on your heat load)

Unless you require cooling in all the rooms simultaneously, having 3 ODU is a waste of resources (and power). One VRF unit can take care of all your need. The way they are designed, the heat load is split between the rooms. Even if the party is at night, the system will keep the bedrooms just about comfortable while delivering maximum cooling to living room.

EVery major manufacturer sells VRF systems. They are usually sold by the Commercial/Institutional sales divisions and not by home AC division. The good part is that these systems are more rugged than home systems and last really a long time. The maintenance is also far superior to the home Ac persons. The bad part is the price. VRF generally range between 50K/T to 100K/T. So a 4T VRF will range between 2L and 4L.

[fine69]

Originally Posted by Aroy

. If you run AC in both bedrooms then you need at least 2 x 1.5T capacity...

VRF's would mean double the cost! I think purely from a cost perspective it may make sense to just have 3 separate units.

Even if I take extra maintenance cost in account separate units would be cheaper in the long run. Not to mention, they provide redundancy also in case one unit goes kaput. In case of VRF, some unfortunate malfunction and you don't have an option to sleep in the other room.