[tjacob]

Originally Posted by hiren.mistry

I will be in the market to buy a hatch around 10-11L and I was keenly waiting for the Baleno RS.

I think one cannot blame MSIL for detuning the boosterjet, they have no option because of their fuel efficiency conscious customers and poor quality petrol available in India.

I read somewhere that you can remap to get those the figures you want but do not know the details.

You can also consider the Elite i20 1.4 MPI AT, it is within your budget but it is the magna variant which is not VFM if the features are considered. The car is also not as spacious as the Baleno or Jazz. You also have the Aspire twins with the 1.5 liter engines. But all these cars have NA engines.

[hiren.mistry]

Originally Posted by tjacob

I think one cannot blame MSIL for detuning the boosterjet, they have no option because of their fuel efficiency conscious customers and poor quality petrol available in India.


You can also consider the Elite i20 1.4 MPI AT, it is within your budget but it is the magna variant which is not VFM if the features are considered. The car is also not as spacious as the Baleno or Jazz. You also have the Aspire twins with the 1.5 liter engines. But all these cars have NA engines.

Agree, I am not blaming them and I understand the rationale behind this move.
Now coming to the cars you suggested:
1. Elite i20: As you rightly mentioned it loses out on features, secondly and perhaps most importantly, it's got an antiquated 4-speed gearbox It's exactly the same reason I will not get the Ciaz AT.
Figo twins are interesting, but personally I don't like them. However, I will surely take a TD.
Baleno for me makes most sense as it would have been near about perfect for my requirement. Spacious, decent pep, peace of mind when it comes to service/maintenance and resale.

Cheers

[Nikhilb2008]

Originally Posted by hiren.mistry

Agree, I am not blaming them and I understand the rationale behind this move.
Now coming to the cars you suggested:
1. Elite i20: As you rightly mentioned it loses out on features, secondly and perhaps most importantly, it's got an antiquated 4-speed gearbox It's exactly the same reason I will not get the Ciaz AT.
Figo twins are interesting, but personally I don't like them. However, I will surely take a TD.
Baleno for me makes most sense as it would have been near about perfect for my requirement. Spacious, decent pep, peace of mind when it comes to service/maintenance and resale.

Cheers

Why not the Jazz CVT?

The Baleno RS is very disappointing for the market it's trying to win, the enthusiasts!

[Highh5]

Originally Posted by hiren.mistry

1. Detuning - Having a 110 BHP car would have been cool and don't quite like that Maruti chose to detune it to get a better mileage figure. But I am still ok with it.

Detuning was done keeping in mind the quality of fuel available here. So basically that's not detuning exactly, more of making the engine compatible with indian conditions and fuel available here. No one here would be willing to run 1.0L BoosterJet on a high octane fuel for which its been developed and it's not even available in rural areas.

So blame it on the quality of fuel available here and emission standards followed.

[Durango Dude]

Originally Posted by hiren.mistry

I am not sure if this is relevant to the thread, so apologies if this is OT.
I will be in the market to buy a hatch around 10-11L and I was keenly waiting for the Baleno RS.

Why don't you look at the Baleno CVT? The other choice would be the Polo GT TSI. Both these cars fall within your budget. Elite i20 1.4 AT is bare bones and I'd not even consider it.

[fangface]

Originally Posted by hiren.mistry

I am not sure if this is relevant to the thread, so apologies if this is OT.
I will be in the market to buy a hatch around 10-11L and I was keenly waiting for the Baleno RS.

Originally Posted by hiren.mistry

Agree, I am not blaming them and I understand the rationale behind this move.
Now coming to the cars you suggested:

I am in a similar situation, was looking for a spacious and reasonably peppy automatic. My average running has been between 1200-1500 km a month. As far as options go -

1. Jazz V CVT - lovely car except for the mindless omission of some creature comforts and a fully loaded variant. My running includes at least 600km of highway driving every month and I wonder if the 1.2 is going to be a bit underpowered??

2. Baleno CVT - a bit disappointing that no alpha trim, but worse is the almost 6 month waiting period. Can't deal with that, so it's not an option.

3. Honda City V CVT - enough creature comforts, well equipped, the nice 1.5 engine, but all this at almost 4 lakhs more then the Jazz. It would be a bit of a budget stretch, but I really would prefer a hatch for Bangalore.

I am waiting for the offical full reviews of the Baleno RS (the first drive reports are decent enough, but the pricing was a bit higher than expected) and the W-RV pricing (for the diesel variant which seems to be more loaded) before I make up my mind.

A wide range of choices and I can't quite make up my mind yet, but by the end of the month at least

[tjacob]

Originally Posted by fangface

2. Baleno CVT - a bit disappointing that no alpha trim, but worse is the almost 6 month waiting period. Can't deal with that, so it's not an option.

If the news I've been reading about MSIL's new plant is accurate then in the coming months the waiting period for the Baleno should come by half down owing to manufacture of Balenos there. Call NEXA customer support and check with them, take it with some above the call center Executive just for better information.

You're not missing much in the Zeta from the Alpha, just the infotainment unit and projectors. Both of these can be retrofitted, check the Baleno review thread, there is one member who the got the projectors equipped.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by hiren.mistry

I am not sure if this is relevant to the thread, so apologies if this is OT.
I will be in the market to buy a hatch around 10-11L and I was keenly waiting for the Baleno RS.

Have you considered the Ecosport AT? I was recently in the market with similar requirements and Ecosport was quite a compelling package in this price bracket. Or otherwise look at the Jazz CVT.

[hiren.mistry]

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

Why not the Jazz CVT?

The Baleno RS is very disappointing for the market it's trying to win, the enthusiasts!

I agree that Baleno RS is not quite there, and considering this same yardstick the Jazz CVT is nowhere.

Originally Posted by Durango Dude

Why don't you look at the Baleno CVT? The other choice would be the Polo GT TSI. Both these cars fall within your budget. Elite i20 1.4 AT is bare bones and I'd not even consider it.

I need a spacious car, and Polo like my ex-Punto suffers here terribly.
I could not agree more about the i20 AT.

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Have you considered the Ecosport AT? I was recently in the market with similar requirements and Ecosport was quite a compelling package in this price bracket. Or otherwise look at the Jazz CVT.

Yes, that is on my horizon. But truth be told, I haven't been too enamoured by the Ecosport but a test drive should help me clear this.
I am keen to see the facelifted Ecosport that I am hoping Ford launches around the festive season this year.

Regarding the Jazz CVT, well it's too mundane. I am seeking a car that offers a bit of thrill and driving pleasure. I know what I am looking for is close to impossible to find in one car, so perhaps I will have to seek a compromise.

Cheers

[Durango Dude]

Originally Posted by hiren.mistry

I am seeking a car that offers a bit of thrill and driving pleasure. I know what I am looking for is close to impossible to find in one car, so perhaps I will have to seek a compromise.

Let's face it, auto boxes are more for convenience than the thrill! It makes driving in the urban environment extremely easy. If you're in it for the thrill: nothing beats a Polo GT TSI: it's one smooth operator for that money but it looses out on space and the suspect reliability of the gear box itself.

The best for you is to stretch your budget a bit and get the 2017 Honda City V-CVT, it's a great car, very refined, has good performance with loads of comfortable cabin space and a huge boot. I can vouch for it as I have a 2017 City VX-CVT.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by hiren.mistry

Regarding the Jazz CVT, well it's too mundane. I am seeking a car that offers a bit of thrill and driving pleasure. I know what I am looking for is close to impossible to find in one car, so perhaps I will have to seek a compromise.

Cheers

If budget is fixed at 11, then how about the VW Ameo DSG? Might be little more spacious than the Polo and also a bit more engaging to drive. Also did you take a look at the Ford Figo DCT? It is not short on space although wouldn't offer Jazz level of space either. The 1.5L engine with the DCT box would be a good combination too. Or maybe even the Aspire DCT.

[hiren.mistry]

Originally Posted by Durango Dude

Let's face it, auto boxes are more for convenience than the thrill!
The best for you is to stretch your budget a bit and get the 2017 Honda City V-CVT,

Yes, that's something I have kept on my radar. The stretch will be around 4L, but if the car meets my expectation then why not!!

Originally Posted by drmohitg

If budget is fixed at 11, then how about the VW Ameo DSG? Might be little more spacious than the Polo and also a bit more engaging to drive. Also did you take a look at the Ford Figo DCT? It is not short on space although wouldn't offer Jazz level of space either. The 1.5L engine with the DCT box would be a good combination too. Or maybe even the Aspire DCT.

Thanks Dr! The looks of the Ameo aren't to my liking but the engine and gearbox combination are great on this car.
And yes, the Figo twins deserve a test drive. I should be back shortly, will start TD in earnest then.

Thanks a ton!

[sparameswaran]

Hi,
I am trying to finalize a budget hatch with automatic (AMT) transmission.
I am driving a Fiat Linea T-Jet (2014 version) and my wife is using our Alto (2008 model Alto 800 LXi - my first car) at present. We are planning to replace the Alto with a Automatic hatch for my wife's daily commute to work. She will be driving approx. 35 kms a day (17kms up and 17 down) 6 days a week. I believe she will find driving less troublesome if she is driving a car with automatic transmission. We do not need the car for long / highway trips because the Linea is already there - the hatch will be exclusively used for local commutes. Other criteria are : 1] Decent safety features (minimum requirements - ABS, Dual air bags, reasonably well built body) 2] As much 'features' as possible, within the budget.

I am seriously looking at the Tiago XZA (AMT), I have asked for a test drive. Does the Tiago AMT make sense?

I considered the following alternatives:

The Alto K10 AMT is cheaper, but I think a facelift or even a totally new version of the Alto is imminent; the car also lacks features, including safety features. The Celerio AMT looks good and is cheaper than Tiago. But it is less powerful and lacks driver seat height adjustment. The Hyundai Grand i10 AMT seems to be lacking ABS, driver seat height adjustment etc.

The Renault Kwid 1.0L AMT is cheaper, but it lacks safety features - No ABS(!) (Tiago comes with ABS & EBD), Only driver side air bag (dual air bag in Tiago) and no reverse parking sensor/camera. Tiago seems better built - the Kwid is lighter by 300kg, no less! Tiago comes with broader (175/65R14) tires compared to Kwid (155/80R13) and have alloy wheels. It is more powerful than the Kwid. Also, there seems to be no seat height adjustment available for the driver - this is potentially a problem for my wife (the primary user). The Nissan Micra (automatic) looks very good and 'tailor made' for our requirements. But is more expensive and I am not sure whether buying a Nissan car is going to be problematic in the long term (the fiat service center in Pondicherry downed shutters more than 6 months back, I need to go all the way to Chennai for servicing my T-Jet now. I don't mind doing it because it is a fantastic car to drive - here is my ownership review: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...xperience.html. But I would like to void similar situation in future, if possible).

I also looked at the Figo Automatic. Looks like a good car with good safety features, though it exceeds the budget we have in our mind. Also, it is a 'bigger' car, we would like to stick to a relatively small car. For the same reasons, I am not much inclined towards the Dzire AMT / Baleno automatic / Polo TSI DSG etc.

Can I request inputs from my knowledgeable friends here in finalizing my decision?
Thanks in advance!

[Dr.Suraj]

Originally Posted by sparameswaran

I am trying to finalize a budget hatch with automatic (AMT) transmission.
I am driving a Fiat Linea T-Jet (2014 version) and my wife is using our Alto (2008 model Alto 800 LXi - my first car) at present. We are planning to replace the Alto with a Automatic hatch for my wife's daily commute to work.

As a Tiago XZA user, extremely satisfied.
Car is made of really good quality materials. Feels solid. Stable.
Gearbox is smooth. Sports mode is a much welcome addition. Ride quality is an area where it scores much above its class. Seating comfort too.
Reasonably feature loaded too!

Any concerns about reliability can be put to rest by opting for extended warranty and AMC.

Any other direct questions, I shall be happy to answer.

[dark.knight]

Originally Posted by sparameswaran

Can I request inputs from my knowledgeable friends here in finalizing my decision? Thanks in advance!

As usual, you will have people suggesting to you, brands or models of cars that they own/have experienced, and they may give you their reasons on why that car/brand is good..here's the problem with it - while they may be completely honest in what they feel about that car and how it drives, you may not feel the same at all in the end. I realize that a place such as Team-BHP is as neutral and fact-based as possible when it comes to cars but to truly make a decision, specially when it comes to automatic, test-drives are important - long test drives.. here are my issues with each transmission based on my limited test drives in them :

CVT - We read CVT and almost instantly the "rubber-band" effect is mentioned, one does not understand what this term stands for exactly, until it is experienced. In short, the rubber band effect stands for slow acceleration response, imagine you wanting a quick jump of 30 to 50 kmph in under 4-5 seconds, you press the pedal hoping for the numbers to jump immediately but it wont, it takes a whole second to respond and then it moves up the speeds, takes getting used to but in incredibly frustrating until then, even for normal city speeds. Micra has the CVT, though due to its light weight the acceleration might be much better than heavier CVT's like Honda City or Toyota Corolla.

AMT - Worst of the automatics, its neither a manual nor and automatic and if I'm right it lacks the best part of owning an automatic - slope holding, releasing the brakes releases the hold when on an incline. I would straightaway knock this off the list if I were you. Also apparently gear shifts are clunkier in an AMT (not driven one). Eg Renault, some Marutis

Torque Converter - Its a liquid based (hydraulic) propeller system, and as can be guessed scientifically, liquids need time to build torque and hence its half-way as slow as CVT, and it may not always put you in the best gears since the speed has to be obviously apparent to the gearbox either by way of a strong acceleration input or braking input to have it slot in the right gear, not intuitive (Grand i10/Xcent)

Double clutch - This automatic is the most intuitive of the lot, it guesses your pedal inputs and readily changes gear (in a fraction of a second), obvious choice you say? Nope, a badly programmed DSG/DCT can change gears very clunkily (mechatronics issue) and might even select wrong gears because no computer learning is perfect.. for city driving the confusion might even increase a bit due to the higher gears involved (6 in Ford and 7 in VW).

Now coming to the problems with various brands :

1) Nissan - Below average build quality (shut the door, you may realize), CVT effect, questionable/horrible service support. Pluses are good headroom, good small size for city without sacrificing leg room and easy to drive.

2) Hyundai - Lack of safety features, 4 gear torque converters in cheaper cars which can best be described as a joke. Pluses are almost best in class interiors and fit-finish (Grand i10 is leagues above Micra) and superb service support.

3) VW - Unreliable DSG and lack of optimum service support, also as you said, might exceed your budget at 10 odd lacs. It is the most well-made of the lot though and a segment or half higher.

4) Ford - Figo is a decent choice for you, only thing is that I found the 6 speed DCT extremely counter-intuitive to drive and it didn't change gears quick enough to make for a seamless drives, also the interior fit-finish is horrible (door cards flex) and isn't a patch on Hyundai. It IS safe though, has all the safety assists and is built quite good externally.

5) Renault - questionable build quality/safety inside and out, has been proven in tests as well, not to mention dicey service.

For your needs though and seeing that it is a need for automatic, I'll exclude AMT (AMT is not automatic, it is a hybrid gearing tech) hence Tiago, Celerio and Alto are out.

My opinion would be the Figo, seeing that you need a car as small as possible while being as comfortable, reliable and safe as possible. Take this with a pinch of salt, test drive all the contenders as shortlisted by you, you may find that I'm not too far off general opinions. In the end, you experience, you decide and make it your call, we as a forum can only state our end of the facts.