[sriramv.iyer]

Originally Posted by dark.knight

As usual, you will have people suggesting to you, brands or models of cars that they own/have experienced, and they may give you their reasons on why that car/brand is good..

That's the exact purpose of the forum right? People share their perspective of what they use, and give their pros and cons.

AMT - Worst of the automatics, its neither a manual nor and automatic and if I'm right it lacks the best part of owning an automatic - slope holding, releasing the brakes releases the hold when on an incline. I would straightaway knock this off the list if I were you. Also apparently gear shifts are clunkier in an AMT (not driven one). Eg Renault, some Marutis

I was in your camp too - 'AMT is the worst - It is not the true AT' till I drove my friend's Ignis. I was expecting a really crude experience, but came out pleasantly surprised. Of course, it doesn't have hill hold. But, for probably the 35 km drive for which this car is proposed, (unless there is ghat section / flyovers inbetween), this is not required. Also, even there was, AMT is more comfortable for 99% of the roads which are in plains. (It is no worse than MT in slopes)

Tiago, had one problem when I test drove a Tiago MT for my friend (Not the AMT) - There was constant throbbing feeling in the gear lever. And the changes were notchy. I recommend that they try the AMT and if satisfied pick it up. Otherwise, I loved the build quality, space, style and the music system was awesome (for the price).

[rohitoasis]

Guys looking out for your suggestions.

I am on the lookout for an new hatch for my parents. We are used to a humble 1996 Maruti 800. I was preferring to go with an automatic hatch rather than a manual transmission. Also We tend to keep our cars for very long in our family. Jump from Maruti 800 to a sedan is also ruled out because of the time required to adjust driving styles to a bigger car. So this investment would be for at least 10 years if not more. I hail from a humble town of Palakkad. So only few manufactures have decent presence here.

Let me list my views towards the various brands and transmissions first(I know i could be wrong). Would like your views if i am wrong in my decision making process.

AMTs: We have only test driven an IGNIS AMT for a short distance, it did not behave as badly as people suggested, but again, we would be driving through mountainous roads towards Calicut and Malapuram and i am wondering if AMT would be a good choice.

DSG: VW has not set up shop here. So servicing would be an issue. Did check with Ford for Figo DSG and they informed me that only 1 customer has bought it in the entire town. So i really suspect the ability of service station to trouble shoot in case of any issue in the auto.

Torque Converter: We have not tried the i20 AT yet, But i do have my biases against the transmission right from the beginning.

CVT: This gearbox i understand is renowned for its smoothness and infamous for its rubber band affect. We have not test driven the Mirca CVT nor the Baleno CVT. But considering the family has test driven the manual Baleno Alpha and absolutely love the car, I was hoping that we proceed with the Baleno CVT. Also with Maruti service support and upcoming Nexa service as well all within 4-5 Km from my house, it would mean peace of mind.

My questions are as below.
1) Would it be a pain to drive around hilly terrain?
2) Are they reliable enough over extended usage. I see posts about mileage of the Baleno CVT, but find not much about the reliability of the transmission.
3) Would it be pain to troubleshoot if something ever goes wrong?
4) What should be the additional care i should take over a normal manual transmission car to ensure trouble free performance of the car. Are there some visual indicators that i can use to verify the transmission is fine?

[ampere]

Originally Posted by rohitoasis

Torque Converter: We have not tried the i20 AT yet, But i do have my biases against the transmission right from the beginning.

My vote definitely goes to Baleno.

1) Would it be a pain to drive around hilly terrain?

You should answer this question based on 2 points of view.
- 99% of the time you use it for City
- That elusive 1% where you drive on Hilly terrain.

So are you looking for that 99% or that 1% usage.

2) Are they reliable enough over extended usage. I see posts about mileage of the Baleno CVT, but find not much about the reliability of the transmission.

Have not heard anything negative in general about CVT. Look at Honda CVTs. They run for long in my opinion.

3) Would it be pain to troubleshoot if something ever goes wrong?

Cant say on this one !

4) What should be the additional care i should take over a normal manual transmission car to ensure trouble free performance of the car. Are there some visual indicators that i can use to verify the transmission is fine?

We have been having an AT for over 8-9 years now as a second car mainly for city commute (An 10 for 7 years and a Figo the last one). We have never driven on the hills though. Other than regular service, I have not done anything else toward an AT.

Hope that helps.

[sajo]

Originally Posted by sparameswaran

Hi,
1] Decent safety features (minimum requirements - ABS, Dual air bags, reasonably well built body) 2] As much 'features' as possible, within the budget.

I am seriously looking at the Tiago XZA (AMT), I have asked for a test drive. Does the Tiago AMT make sense?

I say, looking at AMTs, Tiago is a very good VFM car. I have driven it and found no reason to complain. The build was solid, the car rode well, decent quality inside out. Has a creep function as well.

Originally Posted by sparameswaran

Also, it is a 'bigger' car, we would like to stick to a relatively small car

I say , do consider the Hondas here. The Brio AT is a good option, comes with all safety features, but is not VFM. Another option is the Jazz S CVT , now with ABS and Airbags as standard on the ATs. Slightly more expensive than the Brio, but very spacious and you may find it worth the asking price. Plus you can always haggle for more discounts on the Hondas.

[rohitoasis]

Thank you for your timely comments sir. Thank you for your vote of confidence on Baleno CVT.

Originally Posted by ampere

You should answer this question based on 2 points of view.
- 99% of the time you use it for City
- That elusive 1% where you drive on Hilly terrain.

So are you looking for that 99% or that 1% usage.

Typically twice a week there is going to be a drive in the Hilly terrain. Hence my worry. I am really worried that Baleno CVT has not got the extensive spread in the market and not many comments across social media or our forum about the performance in such a situation i would put the car under.

[Rajeevraj]

Originally Posted by sparameswaran

Hi,
I am trying to finalize a budget hatch with automatic (AMT) transmission.

I am seriously looking at the Tiago XZA (AMT), I have asked for a test drive. Does the Tiago AMT make sense?

The Tiago seems a perfect fit for your needs. But definitely do a detailed test drive to make sure you are satisfied with the drivability. My only concern would be the long term nature of the AMT. There is a thread here on Maruti AMT concerns. Nothing major, but worth going over.

Originally Posted by rohitoasis

Guys looking out for your suggestions.

My questions are as below.
1) Would it be a pain to drive around hilly terrain?
2) Are they reliable enough over extended usage. I see posts about mileage of the Baleno CVT, but find not much about the reliability of the transmission.
3) Would it be pain to troubleshoot if something ever goes wrong?
4) What should be the additional care i should take over a normal manual transmission car to ensure trouble free performance of the car. Are there some visual indicators that i can use to verify the transmission is fine?

If the hilly terrain you are referring to is restricted to the Palakkad-Malappuram-Calicut route, then the Baleno should fare fine. You will need to plan a bit for overtaking maneuvers, but that is going to be the case for any AT apart from the Polo TSI.

I don't think you need to worry about the reliability or the maintenance, just need to follow what is recommended. BUT one thing to keep in mind is that the Baleno does not come in Alpha AT, If I am not wrong, the AT comes only in Delta and Zeta. So need to check if the feel and experience inside the Zeta is as good as the Alpha.

It is also worthwhile to Test Drive the Figo. Only one Figo may have been sold, but considering the Aspire and the Ecosport also use the same AT box, it should be ok to buy.

VW has a big new showroom at Malappuram. If you expect to be driving Malappuram/Calicut side couple of times a week, worth checking the Polo TSI also. Just to get a sense of how it compares.

[rohitoasis]

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

If the hilly terrain you are referring to is restricted to the Palakkad-Malappuram-Calicut route, then the Baleno should fare fine. You will need to plan a bit for overtaking maneuvers, but that is going to be the case for any AT apart from the Polo TSI.

You are bang on the point sir. Appreciate your inputs.

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

I don't think you need to worry about the reliability or the maintenance, just need to follow what is recommended. BUT one thing to keep in mind is that the Baleno does not come in Alpha AT, If I am not wrong, the AT comes only in Delta and Zeta. So need to check if the feel and experience inside the Zeta is as good as the Alpha.

Yes the plan is for Zeta AMT only. I wont be missing much inside except the touchscreen and the reversing camera.

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

It is also worthwhile to Test Drive the Figo. Only one Figo may have been sold, but considering the Aspire and the Ecosport also use the same AT box, it should be ok to buy.

Appreciate your inputs. Yes we have asked Ford to Bring over a DCT unit. They have requested the owner as well. Lets see if i get to drive one.

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

VW has a big new showroom at Malappuram. If you expect to be driving Malappuram/Calicut side couple of times a week, worth checking the Polo TSI also. Just to get a sense of how it compares.

The problem with test driving a Polo DCT is that we could get hooked up to it and corrupt the decision making prospects among other decently priced hatches . Consciously avoided Honda Jazz because of the costly after sales experience. Volkswagen after sales also might be comparable right?

[sparameswaran]

Thank you, everyone for the suggestions and inputs.
I did a test drive of the Tiago XZA (AMT) yesterday.
The car looks good in everyway.
The AMT gear shifts are quite obvious and you can 'feel' it when you are driving. There is no jerk or vibrations of the gear knob or anything, the gear shifts smoothly, but there is a transient feeling of 'loss of power' when it happens, even with you being steady with the accelerator. In the normal drive mode (there is a sport mode) there is a perceptible delay before you start pulling away after you depress the accelerator pedal - nothing really unexpected, but this feeling is perceptibly more compared to driving the usual automatics (CVT). The car is more peppy in the sport mode, but still this transient gear shift 'gaps' persist. Not a real issue and not unexpected, if you ask me, for routine drives.

Extended warranty is being offered for two years & 75K kms (beyond the initial warranty of 2 years & 75K kms).

The On-road price in Pondicherry is expected to be 6 lakhs.

Planning to test drive the Micra and most likely Honda Brio and Figo, before taking a call.

[condor]

Originally Posted by sparameswaran

The AMT gear shifts are quite obvious and you can 'feel' it when you are driving..

Micra, Brio & Figo will feel better on that aspect. AMT's will show some lag, and the engine will add to the response. IMO, brand preference apart, it will be a call to balance the driving experience, FE, price, and the features you want. The Tiago should score on the price & FE. And a very good audio in the top variant.

[sjain2054]

Mod note: Post edited. Please avoid Quoting entire large post for replies, affect readability in smaller mobile devices. Thanks.

Originally Posted by rohitoasis

1) Would it be a pain to drive around hilly terrain?
2) Are they reliable enough over extended usage. I see posts about mileage of the Baleno CVT, but find not much about the reliability of the transmission.
3) Would it be pain to troubleshoot if something ever goes wrong?
4) What should be the additional care i should take over a normal manual transmission car to ensure trouble free performance of the car. Are there some visual indicators that i can use to verify the transmission is fine?

I was in the same boat until two weeks back. I bought the grand i10 automatic for my father. No ABS but everything else.

There are all kinds of cars for all kinds of needs. TC automatics are good in their own way. They have been around for so long. They are reliable. In a city, 4 speed is good enough for most of the times. I had particular requirements of size of car, quality of interiors and a sweet engine. Thus, the Grand i10.

For you the requirements are slightly different. You will be doing hilly runs etc in the automatic. You will also need top notch safety features because of that. Quick automatic gearshifts are always good.

I can think of only one car that fits all your needs - Ecosport DCT petrol.

Why? Because -
1. Ford is focusing on low cost of ownership for customers. I think thats a big and important positioning Ford has taken for itself.

2. Parents will sit higher in the Ecosport. That helps driving and visibility. (the negative point of Ecosport on the visibility front is the thick C pillars but thats a subjective thing)

3. DCT - dual clutch. fast. more reliable than German DSG.

4. Build quality - among the very best. Not flimsy like Figo / Aspire / marutis

5. Safety - Little irritating girl in ads, "meri gaadi mein 6 airbags hain. aur aapki?"

6. ESP. Hill assist... god knows what not. Is perfect for your needs.

7. Size - you want a small car...this is a small car. Under 4m!

8. Ground Clearance - 200mm. This is India. You WILL need it sometime or the other.

Increase your budget by a few lakhs and go for it! It will be worth it over next 8-10years of ownership.

AMTs should be avoided. They were ok when you didnt have so many CVT/DCT/TC options but not anymore.

Baleno CVT vs i20 TC - I would go for i20. The TC is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Its very useable and reliable. i20 IS the better car. No doubt!!

[RJ2285]

Hi Guys,

I am in the market for a used Polo GT TSI.

I have 2 options.

2015 Jan white colour - 22K on the odo for 6.6L

2016 June carbon grey colour - 7k on the odo for 8L

I had a budget of 6 Lacs and I intend to drive the car for 3 years.

Both cars seem to be in mint condition.

Seek your views

[NPV]

Originally Posted by RJ2285

Both cars seem to be in mint condition.

Seek your views

*Assuming both the cars have same features (not sure if anything is different in case there was a facelift in the 2016 version)

You intend to keep it for lesser time, so why spend extra ₹₹₹ ? The 2015 model also has low mileage at 22k so I would say that one makes more sense.

[sridhu]

Ok, I am in a similar position as @rohitoasis.

Replacing the Duster - after the brakes failed on Friday (while parking at Home. Managed to prevent it hitting the Crysta in the back even though it was on the garage ramp.) have lost confidence in the car.

They are replacing it under warranty. So no worries there but the confidence is shaken. Never had this happen in any car I have owned to now.

I maintain cars diligently - services at the time specified ; preventive approach to replacement etc. .

It s 3.5 years old with 75k on the clock (aside : how much can I expect to get for it? 85bhp RxL version. New tires. Alloys. Leather interior)


Anyway, the point is, me & the family want to change the car.

I want an automatic petrol hatchback largely for city use.

I like the Polo TSI. Liked it 4 years ago as well.

Just wondering what other options have surfaced in the last 4 years.

Specs:

- largish hatch (rules out Ignis /Tiago?)
- should be comfortable in the rear for 2 adults (comparison - Honda City, 2nd Gen). Polo fails here
- good to drive (I hated the Crysta automatic, for example)
- reasonable to run & maintain
- decent GC
- not a SUV
- comfortable
- fix safety-must have ABS/ at least 2 airbags (6 preferably)
- 10 l range

Polo seems to meet most of those conditions. Dread having to deal with VW for maintenance though

What are the competitors?

- Polo: the one to beat
- jazz: never tried it. Good?
- Baleno:I did not love even the manual. Drive. Safety?
- i20: did not lie the way it drove 4 years ago. Better now?
- fiat: does it have an auto?
- Ecosport : might be an option but everybody wants a hatch
-Tiago: too small
- no Skoda/Toyota equivalent?

What options buying used?

Anything over the near horizon?

Anybody know where I can get a used GTI ?!

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by rohitoasis

Guys looking out for your suggestions.

I am on the lookout for an new hatch for my parents. We are used to a humble 1996 Maruti 800. I was preferring to go with an automatic hatch rather than a manual transmission. Also We tend to keep our cars for very long in our family. Jump from Maruti 800 to a sedan is also ruled out because of the time required to adjust driving styles to a bigger car. So this investment would be for at least 10 years if not more. I hail from a humble town of Palakkad. So only few manufactures have decent presence here.

1) Would it be a pain to drive around hilly terrain?

Honestly, with electric cars becoming the norm by 2030, why bother with some half baked bargain automatic now? Automatics aren't a pain to drive around hilly terrain per se, but I would any day prefer to drive a manual in the hills and I've never known anyone, even the die hard VW DSG fans, to want anything but a manual in the hills. Driving a small car with an easily influenced power to weight ratio, is a very tactical experience in the hills. Ideally you want full control over the gearbox. Automatics will only perform the same if they are perfectly calibrated. They already do fumble around in traffic, now you want to add ghat sections into the mix? That would mean you will need to be very patient and understanding of all the goof-ups an AT would make in the hills.

I'd suggest looking for a proper manual, with a nice progressive clutch, well spaced pedals, crisp throttle response, proper gear ratios (any petrol Hyundai would be ruled out for example because of their ridiculous 1st to 2nd gear ratios) and smooth gearshifts. I'm sure your parents would appreciate that more than anything else in the hills

Originally Posted by sridhu

Ok, I am in a similar position as @rohitoasis.

Replacing the Duster - after the brakes failed on Friday (while parking at Home. Managed to prevent it hitting the Crysta in the back even though it was on the garage ramp.) have lost confidence in the car.

Sorry to hear about your Duster. As far as your options go, I don't think the market is saturated with enough options to fit all your criteria yet. The Polo is soon going to be replaced by an all new generation one, and so is the Duster. Presently you will need to decide which criteria are most important to you and rank them in order of priority to decide what to go for since there is nothing that does it all at the moment.

[blackasta]

Originally Posted by sridhu

Ok, I am in a similar position as @rohitoasis.

If I could interpret your requirements correctly, you want a reliable AT hatch which shall not break down, has good rear seat space, and costs less than 10L new.
Please check the Jazz V or Baleno Zeta / Alpha, if not the new Ecosport that is gonna get launched very soon.