[Waspune]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

The Etios being utilitarian in comparison is the point. What I meant was that an upgrade need not be better in every imaginable way to distinguish itself as one. One can get tired of a spartan car an upgrade need not mean more performance merely better comfort, feel, quality and snob value while losing none of the perks of a Toyota, is enough. Whether or not it is worth the price is a different more individual subject.

What you are saying makes sense when someone is upgrading from a Toyota to a Merc or another manufacturer that has a very high desirability quotient. Here it's the same manufacturer and the same silhouette.

[subratasenn]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Actually Toyota have done some mix and match here for India. Now I don't know if this has been done to reduce costs because it surely hasn't resulted in the Yaris being priced that way.

Basically the Yaris we get here is sold as the Yaris Ativ in Thailand. The Yaris Ativ slots in below the Vios. The Vios is the City competitor and the Yaris is a segment lower.

The Yaris is priced lower in Thailand because it gets a smaller 1.2L engine and some other features missing.

Basically India gets the Yaris body but mechanicals are from the Vios.

Why they followed this strategy I am not sure. The Vios and Yaris Ativ seem to be have the same underpinnings and only have different design elements.

Maybe Toyota doesn't want to kill the Etios right away. By pricing Yaris closer to Etios would have killed the car (except for the taxi segment).

I would expect Yaris price to come down once Etios/Liva is gone and Toyota starts rolling out their small segment cars based on Suzuki platforms.

[headbanger]

Originally Posted by subratasenn

I would expect Yaris price to come down once Etios/Liva is gone and Toyota starts rolling out their small segment cars based on Suzuki platforms.

Any idea when was the last time this happened with Toyota in India? Dishing out the same car with lowered prices mars the brand- something which is USP in case if Toyota.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by subratasenn

Maybe Toyota doesn't want to kill the Etios right away. By pricing Yaris closer to Etios would have killed the car (except for the taxi segment).

I would expect Yaris price to come down once Etios/Liva is gone and Toyota starts rolling out their small segment cars based on Suzuki platforms.

Which manufacturer in the history have you seen reduce prices and change their position to a lower segment?

It would completely kill the car and dilute the Toyota brand. This is possibly the last thing they will ever think of.

Infact the prices are introductory as per Toyota so if anything they are expected to go up rather than down unless sales tank.

In case of Yaris, the product has it's fair share of positives, especially when it comes to safety features, however it is not perfect.

If they were offering everything one can expect, I would have no qualms paying the additional for the Yaris. Let me name a few features which IMO prevent the Yaris from being justified at this price:

1. Auto dimming IRVM in this segment! The recently launched Ford Freestyle has it at half the ex-showroom price.
2. Telescopic steering - Top end City has it, Vento/Rapid have it.
3. No soft touch plastics or premium feel materials anywhere. The City now has a portion of the dash as soft touch.
4. No LED Lights. - The Vento and City now get LED lights in this segment. Atleast like the Innova, they should have had that in the Yaris.
5. No Sunroof - YEs it has the roof mounted blower over the sunroof but knowing Toyota air con units in the past as being the absolute best, personally I would love for a 17L car to have a sunroof and wouldn't miss the roof blower.
6. No dead pedal - Small irritant but again at 17L for an automatic car not to have one is inexcusable.

With the above 6, Toyota could have charged 50K above the City and I would recommend it to anyone. I would overlook the engine and CVT aspect which is just above average. For many the engine is the single most important aspect.

Sadly it's not the case today and I feel Toyota today is charging more for the brand / logo on the car than the actual product / car. I can understand the reliability, long term hassle free ownership, maintenance costs associated with the brand but the product has to be perfect as well.

[subratasenn]

Originally Posted by headbanger

Any idea when was the last time this happened with Toyota in India? Dishing out the same car with lowered prices mars the brand- something which is USP in case if Toyota.

It happened with Etios/Liva itself. Mine was the first generation car, but after about one and half years, the dealers came up with hefty discounts.

I have a feeling that despite the price tag, the dealers will be offering discounts after the initial launch is over.

[400notout]

Originally Posted by Waspune

What you are saying makes sense when someone is upgrading from a Toyota to a Merc or another manufacturer that has a very high desirability quotient. Here it's the same manufacturer and the same silhouette.

Pardon me for butting in this discussion with my unsolicited 2p. My views match with member Ishaanlans here. After going through various reviews, the biggest attractions of the Yaris is comfort and safety. 7 airbags, Good ride quality, noise cutting windows, good built quality, TPMS, powered driver seat, and a CVT. All of this adds to a providing an ultra comfortable commute. Atleast for 4.

OP who is used to an Etios, does not get a bigger car or a better engine. But a more comfortable option from the same place he purchased the Etios. Unless he can afford a Corolla, the Yaris does make its own case.

There was always a void between the Etios and Corolla for toyota seekers. You are underestimating the lure of a Toyota automatic. A sedate driver will be well at home with that rubber band inflicted CVT. Agreed It offers nothing for the performance seekers, and that it looks nothing exciting, but for most a comfortable daily commute is of higher relevance in today's traffic.

There's more to "upgrading" then engine performance and body size. OP already drives a 1.5 petrol an upgrade in that sense rules out city and verna too. If a upgrade means a bigger body then Tata hexa owners should buy a 407 as their next.

[Simhi]

Took a test drive of Yaris VX CVT variant today at Shaw Toyota, Pune.

Most of the points have been already mentioned in this forum. So, ignore if repeated.
1. Looks - We were fine with the exterior looks - side, rear and front. Did not feel anything offending neither was there an awe factor.

2. Seats - Front seats are fine and spacious. Rear seats looked cramped as soon as we opened the rear door. Once inside, it felt the sedan is strictly for 4 adults. At the max we can accommodate a kid along with 2 adults at the back. I am 5'7" and while I was sitting at the back, spouse noticed that my head was near the roof. I did not feel very uncomfortable, there was sufficient space. Maybe a 6' person head might brush the roof. The back seat in City looks spacious compared to Yaris.

3. Dead Pedal - Got into drive seat and the first thing I noticed is missing dead pedal. I am so used to dead pedal in my i10 Automatic that I sorely missed it in Yaris.

4. Insulation is very good and keeps most of the ambient noise out. This also helps in reducing CVT transmission noise coming into the cabin. Yaris is far better than Honda City in this aspect.

5. Drive - If you are gentle with the throttle, you will not even notice that it is a CVT. Yaris seems to have better low-end torque than City. If you are going to drive within city mostly in the range of 0 to 50 / 60 kmph, then Yaris will perform better than Honda City. It is only when you try to push Yaris that the CVT tends to make noise and can be heard inside cabin. What I also noticed that Yaris CVT easily reaches 80 kmph but seems to struggle beyond that. I will wait for official review on the driving aspect to confirm my observation.

6. Other points - Boot space is good. Fit and finish is good. Safety aspects such as disc brakes on all wheels, 7 airbags, ABS+EBD+BA cannot be overlooked.

In my opinion, if you are a sedate driver or going to use the car mostly in city than Yaris is a good choice and will not disappoint you.


Few snaps in Phantom brown colour



G variant wheel design


V variant wheel design


Pune price list

[Waspune]

Originally Posted by 400notout

There's more to "upgrading" then engine performance and body size. OP already drives a 1.5 petrol an upgrade in that sense rules out city and verna too.

Agree that there is more to an upgrade but that has to do with an aspirational aspect which is quite subjective. I just covered the objective points. For you the Yaris might be an upgrade over Etios but for me it's not. Simple!
The Verna and city petrols are better performers which is a fact and I would definitely call it an upgrade in terms of performance. It's not about the numbers here. City petrol is far better than verna petrol even after having 100 cc of lower displacement and lower bhp and NM numbers. But here it's exactly the same engine and Yaris is heavier than etios.

Originally Posted by 400notout

If a upgrade means a bigger body then Tata hexa owners should buy a 407 as their next.

That's an ill-informed analogy at best. A better example would be an upgrade from a Vento to a A3. You know why.

[400notout]

Originally Posted by Waspune

Agree that there is more to an upgrade but that has to do with an aspirational aspect which is quite subjective. I just covered the objective points. For you the Yaris might be an upgrade over Etios but for me it's not. Simple!

Not pushing you to agree with me. Just presenting what favours the Yaris. It has its merits too.

Originally Posted by Waspune

The Verna and city petrols are better performers which is a fact and I would definitely call it an upgrade in terms of performance. It's not about the numbers here. City petrol is far better than verna petrol even after having 100 cc of lower displacement and lower bhp and NM numbers. But here it's exactly the same engine and Yaris is heavier than etios.

Having driven all generations of the city through ownership or acquaintances, I can vouch for the car. But coming to same engine comparo, IMO the Yaris to the Etios is what the s-cross is to the Brezza in terms of build quality (better actually) . Whereas it's the Brezza to s-cross in terms of desirability. This is talking about same brand in family shopping.

It's all finally subjective. But I repeat, it's a well built, well riding 7 airbags equipped Toyota automatic which is available at a cheaper price point than the City automatic in the lower variants, and that means a lot.

Originally Posted by Waspune

That's an ill-informed analogy at best.

Rather an ill attempted take on humour.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by jassi_jeeper

But in the case of the Yaris, it is not the AC sucking the air from the top of the cabin. It is just a fancily designed 'exhaust fan'.
Also this 'exhaust fan' is also available only in the top model. whereas city/ciaz have proper ducting from AC to the back seats even in starting models.
The only thing this Yaris 'exhaust fan' will do is tell the back seat occupants, what oil have the front seat occupants have applied in their hair! Poor show Toyota!

Just a clarification here. While your logic of hot air at the top makes sense, I will have to agree with akj53 on the below point:

Originally Posted by akj53

It is other way round, when AC sucks the hot air from top half, you will get a nearly uniform temperature from top to bottom, otherwise there is always a hot air pocket in the upper half of the cabin.

I always keep aircon vents pointing upwards to get uniform cooling in the cabin.

The cars which have the AC vent in the centre armrest just have basic ducting to those vents. There's no separate blower also and it is dependent on the blower of the front air con. Net result is very poor air flow from those vents and since they are placed low down, it really doesn't cool the upper half of your body much.

While the Ciaz and City have strong air cons, the Vento Rapid and even Jetta are terrible at the back even with rear AC vents. It was a struggle sitting at the back of a Jetta from Bangalore to Pune.

In this case, the blower on the top is able to recirculate the air on top near the roof better to get uniform cooling. Remember the blower in the car is below the passenger side dashboard, so this vent is able to circulate the hot air on top to allow for the Air con inside to uniformly cool the cabin.

When you sit inside the Yaris back seat under the hot sun on a highway, you will see that this system works and works really well.

What's a big plus point is that you get your own controls for blower speed, so you can adjust the blower accordingly. In City and Ciaz it is dependant on front blower only.

[VKumar]

Today I had a brief test drive in a Yaris petrol manual, first let some pictures speak, then I will do

To be very frank, for once it looked a bit odd and I am quite skeptical that those air deflectors will work perfectly in long run or not. IMO, they could have gone a bit conventional way.

That's Toyota 'Thank you' footmat, sorry if this resulted in some dust going into the system, that said; they are simply the blowers with no cooling coils. What's the issue? Well, we tried three different situations:

• Very hot noon: Enter the car and they will throw proper hot air towards your face, best is to keep them off for first 5 minutes. Thankfully you get proper air volume control and hence can manage the things in a better manner.
• Direct central vents towards the top: That's effective and you can start feeling cool air on your face within a few seconds of it starting to flow from front AC vents
• Central vents directed in any direction: The rear passengers will get their share of cool air only after 3-4minutes of the moment the air conditioning starts working

That said, the ACC is quite effective and having the air flow volume control is very helpful - but if they introduced cooling coils in there, it would have been massively helpful.

I, for one simply open the sunroof of the car for first 1 minute with ACC running, opening the sunroof always makes me feel relaxed as the hot air escapes from the sunroof and air conditioning takes care of everything else - my experience says that this method is quite effective. In other words, instead of having this 'aeroplane' on the roof, I will prefer having a Honda City with rear AC vents directing cool air at the back and having a sunroof doing the job for me.

The instrument cluster is quite functional and legit, is loaded with a lot of information and the fonts definitely look and feel better than those in City.

Buttons work with a nice tactile feel and leather armrest is wonderful too.Since Innova Crysta, we are seeing this kind of armrests in Toyota cars which are slightly slanting towards inside - and that's a good thing. I drive in a laid back position with seat set at lowest position and this one is just perfect for me. The front central armrest is slightly idiotic IMO as even in my laid back position too, hardly 20% of it was accessible for me - for the first time I have seen Toyota doing a Mahindra or Tata.. ie: an ergonomic disaster!!

The rear seat offers a reasonable legroom, that is with the seating position of a 5'8" friend, but even with my seating position, the legroom is definitely good. That, down there is the slanting foot resting area under the front seats. I must say that thigh support is quite good. I, being 5'10" found this seat better than Ciaz (This car has poor - Swift grade interior plastics and only legroom) or Verna and probably 90% as comfortable as that of City.

I liked the shape of the squab and the thigh support on offer - I personally hate the ones which end up digging into my knees from behind. Compared it directly to the City and the squab length difference is hardly 1 inch, but the overall shape of the rear seat is definitely better in the city. Yaris seat is lagging behind, but by a very small margin.

Yaris claws back with a better set of headrests and I felt the armrest better suited to my seating position. Even the middle passenger gets three point seatbelt but I am damn sure that the middle passenger will love to be in the rear of a City rather than this.

I really am not very much impressed with this front - as good it looks in the pictures, it feels less mature than City or Verna front when seen in person. What else? Well, although it's as wide as the City; the Yaris doesn't look and feel as wide the the City or even Verna in person - be it outside or inside.

I really don't understand why the cars get such a useless rear bumper these days, this isn't a sub 4m car; I can see that even if a hatchback strikes this car from the back - the owner can look forward to replace his bootlid.

Thanks a lot for your expert observations Vidyut, I found them all to be spot on after I returned back from my TD and read your observations.

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Yaris styling was not as flamboyant as City. Completely inoffensive. Infact driving it for an entire saturday, nobody even gave it a second look

It looks a segment smaller than the City IMO, in fact it even looks louder too from that overdone front. I personally feel that City and verna are more mature designs.

When you get inside, the feeling was similar. Everything is built really well but the design didn't look premium or luxurious.

Completely agree, it feels a bit better built than the City, textures and material quality used are quite good and will manage to impress a few.

The 1.5L motor has decent low end but is flat after that. In MT guise, it is a lot better and more fun to drive.

The low end and driveability is the forte of this engine, I engaged 6th at 50 kph on a flat surface and the Yaris managed to show some progress - definitely the low end is better than that of the City.
Mid range felt quite reasonable, it's definitely not flat as the progress can be felt right there. Yes, the top end is not closer to that of the City, but this motor doesn't feel strained and manages to cleanly pull till 6000 rpm at least - and it makes nice sounds too.

City starts coming into character only after 3000-4000 rpm, but the Yaris offers a more usable power delivery IMO. I agree that City has a manic top end and what not, BUT... and a big BUT indeed, how many times any owner is going to drive till 7000 or even above 5000 rpm in actual ownership period? Overall, I agree that Yaris is lower on power but it offers quite a silken and relaxed power delivery with enough grunt for some fun moments of any family man. Is it the car for me? No, I will prefer driving the Honda i-VTEC any day.

But yes, this engine knows how to deliver fuel economy and it managed to stun me with the numbers I saw in the MID - and going by the engine state of tune, I am damn sure that it will be any day more economical than a City to drive as it packs enough grunt in the lower end itself that most of the driver's won't need to downshift in the situations in which they do in the City.

The gearbox is really nice but again the weak link is the Engine.

Feels more of a Toyota gearbox, it neither slots with the confidence of a City nor is creamy like a Verna. It feels to have narrow gates and short throws, I felt a bit notchyness (Very less of it, don't get me wrong) but overall it's quite a decent experience to use it.

That said, why can't Toyota manage to give those slick and short levers with precise throws as in City? That Honda gearbox is fun to even slot, engine takes care of the remaining part.

gets vocal above 4000rpm

Which out of 1.6 VTVT, 1.4 VVT or 1.5 i-VTEC doesn't? IMO only this one and 1.5 i-VTEC manage to sound a bit sporty too. What's missing? Well, the 1.5 i-VTEC makes the car go like a bullet from a rifle and this one makes it go like a bullet from a desi double barrel bandook!

What is good is the dynamics and suspension setup. Ride quality is very superior to the City and can take on any road conditions without transmitting much into the cabin.

100% agree

The all round disc brakes give it fantastic braking. The MT brakes were brilliant.

Indeed, I had to rewire my brain map and re-adjust my right foot for the brakes,t hey bite quite well and offer a wonderful stopping power. I tried at 100 kph and it was a wonderful stopping. I guess the car I drove was on Bridgestone Turanza shoes and they did their job of gripping the tarmac quite well.

[gopalnt]

Went and checked both Yaris and City today. I was not happy with the rear seat space, under thigh support and height of Yaris when compared to City. Also, I felt that the steering position was low in Yaris, even when it was set at its max height.

[400notout]

Originally Posted by VKumar

The front central armrest is slightly idiotic IMO as even in my laid back position too, hardly 20% of it was accessible for me - for the first time I have seen Toyota doing a Mahindra or Tata.. ie: an ergonomic disaster!!

In their youtube review comments section, on this topic, Karthikeya Singhee of Zigwheels has said that Toyota calls this a "storage space" and not an armrest.

Not defending just saying.

Thanks for the detailed analysis. In the same review he had demonstrated the sound cutting windows to be quite effective. Is it a party trick or does it really make the cabin quieter vis-à-vis competition?

[VKumar]

Originally Posted by 400notout

In their Youtube review comments section, on this topic, Karthikeya Singhee of Zigwheels has said that Toyota calls this a "storage space" and not an armrest.

In that way also Honda City offers a better storage space with a foam padding on the top for resting your elbow. Toyota is free to call the Yaris even 'Land Cruiser Sedan Edition' ( it's their car, they can call it or its components anything), why just call armrest only with other name? Any ways, things will remain the way they are.

sound cutting windows to be quite effective. Is it a party trick or does it really make the cabin quieter vis-à-vis competition?

When it comes to quieter cabin, nothing beats Verna as per what I have observed. Yaris also gets a commendable sound deadening, rest all of us know that most of the terms are tossed by marketing guys and everyone knows that exaggeration and marketing goes hand in hand.

[sumeethaldankar]

Was at the showroom today. The Accesories worth 14.1 k were termed as compulsory buy. How can this be? It's basically some chrome fittings, a car cover etc which is getting shoved down the customers throat.