[Flyer]

Originally Posted by Simhi

Pictures can be misleading. As per official brochures of City and Yaris
City width: 1695mm
Yaris width: 1730mm

How come despite being smaller in width, City can easily accomodate 3 at the back and a bigger Yaris can't??

[indivic]

Originally Posted by Flyer

How come despite being smaller in width, City can easily accomodate 3 at the back and a bigger Yaris can't??

Could be because of various factors - amount of space used by the door pads/pockets,contouring of the seat.
Etios has a flat seat and I found it to be more comfortable for 3 people at the rear than the Yaris which has a contoured rear seat with the middle part being raised.

[nmenon]

Originally Posted by Samba

[b]

The meter console, dashboard and the power window console looks good.

Attachment 1757394

Attachment 1757395

From the power window console it looks like only the drivers window button is illuminated.
In which case it appears that Toyota have learnt from Maruti

Why Toyota why? Can't you just illuminate the power window switches or is it the beginning of the Toyota and Suzuki partnership?

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by Flyer

How come despite being smaller in width, City can easily accomodate 3 at the back and a bigger Yaris can't??

City can easily seat 3? I doubt, atleast not in my uncles current gen City. Me a cousin and my grandmother could barely manage/squeeze. City is nowhere in the league of Verito/Etios which I feel are the only sedans which can easily seat 3. City might be better than Yaris but definitely not a comfortable 3 seater.

[Prathiiik]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

City can easily seat 3? I doubt, atleast not in my uncles current gen City. Me a cousin and my grandmother could barely manage/squeeze. City is nowhere in the league of Verito/Etios which I feel are the only sedans which can easily seat 3. City might be better than Yaris but definitely not a comfortable 3 seater.

The 4th gen City can seat 3 people at the back without any problem. The only minor issue is the placement of the power window switches which are a minor irritant. Otherwise, the City can comfortably seat 3 people in the rear bench.

[Flyer]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

City can easily seat 3? I doubt, atleast not in my uncles current gen City. Me a cousin and my grandmother could barely manage/squeeze. City is nowhere in the league of Verito/Etios which I feel are the only sedans which can easily seat 3. City might be better than Yaris but definitely not a comfortable 3 seater.

Yes it is a bit of squeeze in City. But I was asking only in comparison to Yaris, because lately I have been hearing praises about the rear seat space of City.

What adds more confusion is if Etios (which is also 1695 mm in width) can easly seat 3 at the back then why can't Toyota's bigger car do it?

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by Prathiiik

The 4th gen City can seat 3 people at the back without any problem. The only minor issue is the placement of the power window switches which are a minor irritant. Otherwise, the City can comfortably seat 3 people in the rear bench.

The squeeze/lack of space in most cars is because of door pads(seat width in some case) which you have mentioned. Add to that passenger in middle doesnot get a comfortable place(also mentioned in official review)

Originally Posted by Flyer

Yes it is a bit of squeeze in City. But I was asking only in comparison to Yaris, because lately I have been hearing praises about the rear seat space of City.

What adds more confusion is if Etios (which is also 1695 mm in width) can easly seat 3 at the back then why can't Toyota's bigger car do it?

Car width doesnot necessarily mean spacious interiors. Seat bench width, door pad/door thickness, placement of armrests, type of seat all determine the space. As I recall the Ecosport was as wide as Innova, but the space at back seat is a different story.

[Baddychat]

Originally Posted by Flyer

How come despite being smaller in width, City can easily accomodate 3 at the back and a bigger Yaris can't??

The middle or the 5th passenger as you may call it is uncomfortable in the Yaris because of a flawed arm rest design. It protrudes all the way to nearly the middle of the rear row although there is zilch transmission hump on the Yaris.
So a tall guys swivels a little left or right making 5 a very very tight fit or not.

[GTO]

Just to tell you guys of how perspectives & preferences can differ.

We're currently running the Yaris through our full test. Moderator Navin is in the market to get a car for his wife (he already has a Camry), hence I thought I'll swing by his place. Went last night.





He drove it and within 500 meters said "I'm sold". Navin will be booking it today. I'd never buy the Yaris for myself; however, Navin was easily convinced & it's easy to see why the Yaris will appeal to a certain customer profile. Equally, I might add that:

• Even if a car is overpriced, that doesn't make a difference to him. He's not price sensitive.
• Three of them in the family (including his 15-year old son), so space for 4 or 5 is not required. Plus, the Camry is always there.
• He's not an 'engine vengine' guy. He drove the Yaris, liked the interiors, seats, smoothness etc. and was satisfied. But yes, he did find the CVT's behaviour under full throttle 'annoying'.

What I liked: Quality (doors shut nicely, interiors well put together etc.), safety kit & Toyota's safety standards (remember the Etios' NCAP safety rating?), smooth CVT, mature suspension for a Japanese car (ride & handling package), steering design & weight, insulation (outside sounds are very well controlled, no wind noise at high speed), amazing upholstery quality, legroom is 'adequate' for 4, rear seat back support, powerful air-con, good sound quality for a stock ICE system...

What I didn't like: Overpriced, engine feels old by 2018 standards (forget City, even Verna petrol is better), lazy CVT can take upto 4 seconds to get things moving after kickdown, w-e-i-r-d front-end styling, no reach-adjustable steering (stupid decision - too far for my driving position), wheels look a bit small for all that sheet metal above them, small pedal area (will be tight in the manual, no dead pedal), narrow rear seat is good for 2 not 3, legroom is less than some competitors, no Android Auto...

Disclaimer: Have not yet taken it on the highway; will be doing so tomorrow, so my likes & dislikes might differ after a longer test-drive.

Sweet touch: The wipers, man! They are more silent than even Audis, BMWs & Mercedes'. Wiper + washer are whisper silent in their operation.

Funny moment of the day: I open the boot so Navin can check it out. Tell him that it'll carry his airport luggage easily. Navin ignores my statement, pops his head into the boot and starts talking about where exactly he is going to place his subwoofers & amps. To him, that's what a boot is for . Says the stock ICE won't even last a day in his car.

[navin]

Originally Posted by GTO

Just to tell you guys of how perspectives & preferences can differ. He drove it and within 500 meters said "I'm sold".

But yes, he did find the CVT's behaviour under full throttle 'annoying'.

Just to clear things. I do enjoy a little "engine-vengine". However I believe driving fast should be left for the controlled conditions of a race track and not city roads with humans, 2 wheelers, and enough ignorant drivers competing for space.

In addition, I am 55. I have no desire to race the next guy to the next red light. The car will never be used on a highway (my Camry is not either - we have another vehicle for that) and will spend most of it's time confined to city roads, city traffic, and traffic signals every 2-3km.

That said the Yaris has a weird power curve. It is fine from start to about 30/40kmph then it starts getting loud if you push it. If you are gentle with the accelerator as I am you may never notice it but if you try to hammer the gas pedal it will complain and loudly (louder than Lewis). There is a noticeable loud hum that emanates from the engine as it slowly reacts and gets to about 80kmph.

Beyond 80kmph it is less noisy but I don't go much beyond that.

This leads me to believe it is not the CVT that is the limitation it is the engine itself. It sounds and acts dated. Very 80s Corolla. But TOYOTA this is 2018!!!!! Get with the program!

The City's VTEC/iVTEC is several generations old and you guys cant even produce and engine to match that? Come on!

Why even the Verna and Ciaz have better response and the Ciaz is underpowered as it is.

Originally Posted by GTO

narrow rear seat is good for 2 not 3, legroom is less than some competitors, no Android Auto...

I did sit in the back. The Leg room is about 2" less than a City but what may be worse is that the middle passenger is left hanging, literally. About the only middle seats that are worse are the VW-Skoda seats with the 'transmission tunnel' hump in the middle.

Andorid? What is that? We are an Apple family. If I can sync mine and my wife's iPhones to the HU I am satisfied.

Originally Posted by GTO

Sweet touch: The wipers, man! They are more silent than even Audis, BMWs & Mercedes'. Wiper + washer are whisper silent in their operation

This is so true. If these wipers had been standard in 1969 the following words would never have been penned.

With them windshield wipers slappin' time
I was holdin' Bobby's hand in mine
We sang every song that driver knew
Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose
Nothin' ain't worth nothin' but it's free - Kris Kristofferson


Oh and lastly, Toyota you guys are either absolutely ignorant about ICE or don't care. It has been 6 years since I wrote this:

"...and then there is the ICE. It deserves to be shot. The people responsible for implementing this should be shot. No shooting them would be too easy. They should be stuffed in the Camry and force fed Kenny G over the ICE. I have heard elevator speakers that sound better."
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ip-review.html

It has been 6 years! I rest my case. BHPians if you care just a little about ICE you should storm Toyota's doors and lynch the group who is responsible for the travesty they call "In Car Entertainment" in the Yaris. (ok I am just kidding about the lynching part; please don't do it, but you get the picture).

Not only is the ICE bad but boffins at Toyota, in their infinite wisdom, insist on providing space on the dash for the speakers. For the life of me I cannot fathom why, when tweeters in the OVRM pods are so much easier to implement. Why, Toyota, do you insist on making my life so difficult?

But they aren't listening are they? Everyone in Toyota must be deaf. That's why they don't care about ICE.

[riteshritesh]

Originally Posted by navin

l

It has been 6 years! I rest my case. BHPians if you care just a little about ICE you should storm Toyota's doors and lynch the group who is responsible for the travesty they call "In Car Entertainment" in the Yaris. (ok I am just kidding about the lynching part; please don't do it, but you get the picture).

Hahaha. What an icy cold post about the ICE! If words could melt, the ICE would be broken.
On a similar note, I get your with reference to the buying impulse. I too sit in a car and in an instance if it clicks it is home. No Engine Vengine issues. Just that the car has to feel nice.

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by navin

That said the Yaris has a weird power curve. It is fine from start to about 30/40kmph then it starts getting loud if you push it. If you are gentle with the accelerator as I am you may never notice it but if you try to hammer the gas pedal it will complain and loudly (louder than Lewis). There is a noticeable loud hum that emanates from the engine as it slowly reacts and gets to about 80kmph. Beyond 80kmph it is less noisy but I don't go much beyond that. This leads me to believe it is not the CVT that is the limitation it is the engine itself.

Going by the symptoms, it does look like a CVT issue to me. This is exactly the way Honda 1.5 iVTEC CVT behaves when driven hard - a cacophony of growls & groans at the speeds you mentioned. You probably won't see this in the Camry because of a much larger engine. And this behavior will be even worse in [1.2L engine + CVT] combination like the Micra.

But over the next 3 to 6 months, you will sub-consciously figure out how to get the best acceleration without all that noise. You need to progressively floor the pedal - gentle during the first 25% play and more aggressively beyond that.

[motorworks]

So in the J variant you get 7 airbags but no defogger? I think some one from Hyundai who planned the Creta Variants has joined Toyota! I mean how ridiculous is this! No defogger on a 11-12 lakh (OTR) Car! Exactly same as the Creta! The entry level variants do not get the defogger at all!

How expensive is a defogger really!

[yatin]

Not giving the defogger seems standard practice. Even if the mythical "average car buyer" cared about the defogger, manufacturers want such people to move up a couple of variants (but with Toyota, its usually just 1 variant up).

On another note, have we now seen the first photo-post by @Samba without a shot of nature?

[raghuveerk]

So I just test drove the Yaris. I asked for a test drive today morning from madhuban Toyota in Mumbai and they managed to offer it right away.

My two cents:

Overall package is good and I did feel the car felt more planted and sturdy vis a vis the honda city. I test drove the top end CVT and while the ivtec CVT is marginally better, this one offers excellent driveability as well. I did not feel that it was ‘unresponsive etc’. The acceleration is good enough for city driving.

Pricing discussion apart, the biggest drawback of this car is the extremely poor rear seat space. I am 5 feet 11 and in a regular seating position on the rear seat, my head was almost touching the roof! Legroom space while ok, is not at par with the Honda city. Rear seating is still better compared to the new verna though! This to my kind is a huge miss for a car in this segment.

I have been scouting for a car which will be predominantly driver driven mostly for city commutes to replace my SX4. Shortlisted in the Honda city and the ecosport petrol (waiting for the sunroof S and signature editions). So I will stick to my original shortlist as the Yaris just won’t tick the box for me as a rear passenger.

If Honda addresses the airbags and CVT in the lower variants, it will IMO ward off majority of new buyers who would tilt towards to the Yaris.