[srishiva]

Is Tata stretching out this thing for too long ? Seems like people are getting tired of the details. Not sure if this is a strategy or they are working in ad hoc manner right from showing the concept to us.
I wish them success and their cars are also better. But the way everything is being rolled out without divulging much but showing the car everywhere disguised for long time is something confusing. I am no longer excited about this as I used to be.

[rovingeye]

This picture explains why Tata may not have much wiggle room to provide what we want, i.e. an attractively priced, feature loaded automobile that everyone will line up to buy. JLR has suddenly hit a big pot hole in its erstwhile growth market, China. This is a very recent development, by the way, attributable at least in part to the joker sitting in the White House. Tata knows this is something that's not going to fix itself any time soon.

Therefore, we are observing various cost cutting measures, as discussed in multiple threads of this forum. Tata are desperate to put some positive numbers in the EPS column to turn the stock around. I suspect pricing the Harrier at the premium end in a market like India (and understandably due to cost pressures) is not going to do it for them.

Sorry Tata. I love you, but I can't marry you because you're acting too pricey.

[FordDodo]

Meanwhile, testing of Harrier continues. Spotted by my friend Lijith Mohanan at a petrol bunk in Bangalore today morning.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by FordDodo

Meanwhile, testing of Harrier continues. Spotted by my friend Lijith Mohanan at a petrol bunk in Bangalore today morning.

Attachment 1820725

Fuel lid on the driver side is a good thing . Is that how it is on other Tata cars?

[condor]

Originally Posted by Guna

Fuel lid on the driver side is a good thing . Is that how it is on other Tata cars?

Used to be earlier, but of late has been on the left. I prefer it on the driver side so that I can see the fuel pump reading and talk to the attendents much more easily.

[adimicra]

Frankly, I am tired to seeing the same disguised pictures of the Harrier so many times in this thread. I am not sure what value it adds if it is not revealing anything new to the thread. And I also think Tata is stretching this for too long as it is almost impossible to keep the buzz going for such a long time.

About the car in particular, I am not excited if this is priced in 16L-21L range unless the 16L model itself is close to fully loaded model of competitors like Creta. I strongly feel the market for 20Lakh 5-seater SUVs is very limited. Take a look at the Compass, it's a very competent car and beats the Creta in almost every parameter but for >95% of people (just a guess), Creta provides all what is needed and whatever incremental value provided by the Compass does not qualify for 25% higher price. In fact, I am considering a 5-seater SUV for my next upgrade and if I have to put my money on a car today, I will choose the Creta over the Compass though I can afford the Compass simply because the value proposition is not strong for the Compass in my opinion. It is very similar to the D-segment sedans and how City/Verna segment literally killed the Civic/Corolla segment.

Now, for the Harrier to be priced higher than the Creta, what additional value is Tata Motors going to provide? I can see that the Harrier is considerably bigger which should translate to more space and better street presence but many people traveling in the city roads would like a more compact SUV with adequate space which the Creta provides. Harrier will marginally be more powerful but given the size and weight, I don't think it will provide any performance advantage over Creta while fuel efficiency will easily be more for the Creta. On top of it, if you add the brand value and reliability of Hyundai, Tata Motors have clearly a huge uphill battle in their hands if they price it higher than Creta. They probably have to launch quite a few segment-first features to make it a good value proposition. Even in that case, whether those features will be appreciated by the public beyond a few enthusiasts in forums like this is another big question.

I hope Tata Motors surprises us with the pricing of the Harrier as I will be looking forward to this car as my potential next upgrade in an year or so.

[nainan]

Originally Posted by FordDodo

Meanwhile, testing of Harrier continues. Spotted by my friend Lijith Mohanan at a petrol bunk in Bangalore today morning.

Attachment 1820725

The black alloys look cool and the vehicle behind has black steel rims too. I wonder why they still use those atrocious looking headlamps when the headlight cluster of the Harrier is already revealed.

I know I am hoping against hope here but considering every media mention of the H7X has been accompanies with black alloys/steel rims are these H7X? However since the Safari like hump on the roof is absent and the rails(both are present in the Omega Arc video rendering of the H7X) I have my doubts.

[nikipedia87]

Originally Posted by nainan

I know I am hoping against hope here but considering every media mention of the H7X has been accompanies with black alloys/steel rims are these H7X?

I am hoping against hope that the fuel attendant is filling petrol in the car . Considering its camouflaged, maybe there will be slight changes in the petrol variant, whenever it is slated to release.

[samaspire]

Originally Posted by nikipedia87

I am hoping against hope that the fuel attendant is filling petrol in the car . Considering its camouflaged, maybe there will be slight changes in the petrol variant, whenever it is slated to release.

It's diesel. The petrol nozzle is going into the bike on the other side.

[nainan]

Originally Posted by nikipedia87

I am hoping against hope that the fuel attendant is filling petrol in the car . Considering its camouflaged, maybe there will be slight changes in the petrol variant, whenever it is slated to release.

Sorry to disappoint you it seems to be diesel. If you look at the board above it says diesel to the left and the right side filler is in its bracket.

[prakash_ajp]

Originally Posted by adimicra

Now, for the Harrier to be priced higher than the Creta, what additional value is Tata Motors going to provide? I can see that the Harrier is considerably bigger which should translate to more space and better street presence but many people traveling in the city roads would like a more compact SUV with adequate space which the Creta provides. Harrier will marginally be more powerful but given the size and weight, I don't think it will provide any performance advantage over Creta while fuel efficiency will easily be more for the Creta. On top of it, if you add the brand value and reliability of Hyundai, Tata Motors have clearly a huge uphill battle in their hands if they price it higher than Creta. They probably have to launch quite a few segment-first features to make it a good value proposition. Even in that case, whether those features will be appreciated by the public beyond a few enthusiasts in forums like this is another big question.

I hope Tata Motors surprises us with the pricing of the Harrier as I will be looking forward to this car as my potential next upgrade in an year or so.

You also have to remember that there's a thing called segment. Harrier is going to be bigger than the vehicle that is one segment above the Creta, the Compass.

Going by what you say, one can also say Creta has no real advantage over something like a Brezza or Ecosport, but people still see value in it and buy in thousands. And by the same logic, Creta and Tuscon should also be priced similarly, right?

I think people are mixing up what they need/want/can-afford with what the Harrier is. I am not saying Harrier should be more expensive than Creta (for, I think Creta is way over-priced) but it is so wrong to compare these two cars.

[nainan]

Originally Posted by prakash_ajp

You also have to remember that there's a thing called segment. Harrier is going to be bigger than the vehicle that is one segment above the Creta, the Compass.

Going by what you say, one can also say Creta has no real advantage over something like a Brezza or Ecosport, but people still see value in it and buy in thousands. And by the same logic, Creta and Tuscon should also be priced similarly, right?

I think people are mixing up what they need/want/can-afford with what the Harrier is. I am not saying Harrier should be more expensive than Creta (for, I think Creta is way over-priced) but it is so wrong to compare these two cars.

Segmentation both in SIAM terminology or EPA in the US classifies the Creta, Compass and Discovery Sport in the same segment (Compact SUV). The Discovery Sport is considered a luxury vehicle while the other two are not.

So by segment the Harrier too is in the very same segment. If we look in the Tata stable the Hexa is the only vehicle large enough to go to a higher segment.

The Brezza, Ecosport and Nexon are in a lower segment (subcompact SUV). So the if we are comparing by segment comparing the Creta and Harrier is right and comparing either of these with the Brezza, Ecosport or Nexon is not.

Secondly Tata considers the Harrier a Creta competitor(someone had asked me for a reference and its been given a few pages back).

Only 1000+ people buy the Compass a month and 10000+ buy the Creta.

Tata has not made a secret of how many Harriers they hope to sell a month(calculation and references in a previous post) and given that its a no-brainer that its the Creta customer who would need to move to a Harrier to give Tata the numbers they need.

Yes the Creta is overpriced but selling due to the Hyundai brand and no attractive alternatives and as a fan of Tata SUVs since the Sierra I hope they price the Harrier(which I dont intend to buy) and the H7X(which I intend to buy) to offer the best value for their segment at the best pricing when they have an obvious advantage in terms of localization and supply chain which Hyundai and Jeep dont have.

The Nexon and Hexa have started a new era of affordable, feature laden attractive SUVs and I see no reason that the Harrier continue from there.

As for aspiration and affordability I do not see in the age of EMIs 4 lakh more on a 18 lakh car mattering. Value does in this market as many in the automobile segment especially 2 wheelers are waking up to.

[prakash_ajp]

Originally Posted by nainan

Segmentation both in SIAM terminology or EPA in the US classifies the Creta, Compass and Discovery Sport in the same segment (Compact SUV). The Discovery Sport is considered a luxury vehicle while the other two are not.

It'll be interesting to see where Tuscon is slotted. Surely, not in the same segment as the Creta? If they are in the same segment, that'll not only make the whole segmentation thing ridiculous and pointless exercise, but will also render this particular point invalid.

[nainan]

Originally Posted by prakash_ajp

It'll be interesting to see where Tuscon is slotted. Surely, not in the same segment as the Creta? If they are in the same segment, that'll not only make the whole segmentation thing ridiculous and pointless exercise, but will also render this particular point invalid.

The Tucson is Hyundais compact segment offering worldwide. The Creta also is a compact and was a created as the ix25 specifically for the Chinese market and then launched in the Indian market. It also is sold in other markets in Africa, Latin America and Russia primarily markets where pricing was a crucial factor. Essentially Tucson is the global compact SUV and the Creta is the price sensitive compact SUV for emerging markets . Both are sold side by side in most markets.

Localization and taxation too is an important component at the Creta is 90% localized while the Tucson is CKD. In other markets the pricing differential between the two is not as sharp as in India. The Compass on the other hand is 70% localized but FCA hoping to make maximum use of the Jeep brand. They seem to have overestimated the reach/perception of the brand.

Its is overpriced and Hyundai made full use of their brand name and lack of a capable competitor.

Oops sorry I seem to have deviated significantly from the topic so coming back to it. I truly think unlike before Tata is building up a reputation for good cars and the Harrier seems the right point to win back the SUV segment from the foreign brands so they should leave no effort including pricing.

[prakash_ajp]

Originally Posted by nainan

The Tucson is Hyundais compact segment offering worldwide. The Creta also is a compact and was a created as the ix25 specifically for the Chinese market and then launched in the Indian market. It also is sold in other markets in Africa, Latin America and Russia primarily markets where pricing was a crucial factor. Essentially Tucson is the global compact SUV and the Creta is the price sensitive compact SUV for emerging markets . Both are sold side by side in most markets.

I was hoping you would tell me where the SIAM has put the Tuscon in their classification. I will assume for now that Creta and Tuscon that are 10L apart in terms of pricing are in the same segment (unless proven otherwise). That IMO, makes the whole SIAM classification thing a farce. On the other hand, I find our C2/D1/D2 segment much more palatable, which puts Creta in the same C2 segment as Duster/Brezza and groups Compass, Tusson and Tiguan together in D1. I expect the Harrier to fit right into this group.

Another point I would like to make is this: If a company invests in 100% localization, it not only gets to price it competitively, it also is entitled to enjoy some profit.

Edit: Just because we are allowing ourselves to be fleeced by Hyundai, doesn't mean that becomes the standard. In China, the price of Tuscon starts where the ix25 ends. So, I would say it' only fair if the Harrier price starts somewhere between the Creta and Compass/Tuscon.

Courtesy: https://chinaautoweb.com/car-models/hyundai-ix25/