[400notout]

Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator

USP of Ciaz is not pricing, it's Value.

Having said that, what is the USP of City? Revv-happy engine, that's it? And Verna? (looks being subjective) Ventilated seats?

Price is major advantage the Ciaz has and there are no two ways about it. As the City is not far behind on space or others reliability wise.

But that being said Honda really needs to look into what the USP the City is. It's far from the premium offering it used to be when it was unchallenged earlier. Also competition has caught up or surpassed it on many counts. Its definitely more fun to drive but how often you get to exploit that is another question.

Charging 2 to 3 lakhs over the Ciaz won't work in the long run. Unless MS is confident of pricing brand "Ciaz" alongside the City. Then the comparison would be only fair.

About the facelift, I like how it looks. The "humanity line" makes it look more mature .

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by 400notout

Price is major advantage the Ciaz has and there are no two ways about it.

Rather than being generic - Let's look at it variant wise.

Petrol Manual - Enthusiasts City v/s Everyone else Ciaz.
City does not offer the manual transmission option on the ZX variant - so no 6 airbags angle here. It also misses out on Auto headlamps and wipers, but receives a sunroof option. Lights are LED as well.

Ciaz offers almost everything except the sunroof, while being priced a good 2 lakhs cheaper, much more in terms of onroad price due to higher tax slabs above 10L in many states. The only prime differentiating factor is the engine then - the Honda will suit for those loving to revv the engine everytime needed, whereas Ciaz seems to be an efficient and driveable engine as per the initial reports.

Petrol Automatic - City wins hands down.
4 speed AT v/s 7 step CVT with paddle shifts.
6 airbags option on the City.

Diesel - Neither.
Verna easily wins on engine alone! Unless you plan to be chauffeured around and backseat is the most important seat in the car - In that case its the Ciaz for everyone who can't afford the City ZX for its 6 airbags.

Edit -

Originally Posted by DieselAddikt

Wow !! That gives me some hope. Is the source of the information credible? Can you share that as well? If this is true, I would consider one for my next purchase. Please do keep us folks posted.

Originally Posted by giri1.8

It has been built keeping local law coming into force, not the Euro-NCAP or any other international organisation.

Surprisingly - While checking variant information for above post, I noticed the below claim from Maruti Suzuki. "Successfully tested and in compliance with International Safety Norms". Hopefully that points to an NCAP test achieved by Maruti, though I'll believe them only once an external agency publishes the results.

[arjab]

Cousins separated at birth? ....right down to the "humanity line across the grille? :-)

[Jeevith]

Originally Posted by MaheshY1

Mark my words, the Nexa will park a Rs 25 lakh rupee car on the showroom floor before 2025.

Very valid observations, but this bit is not really saying much. As early as 2019-20 Nexa will have a Suzuki badged version of the Corolla. If you factor in inflation, this Corolla (or whatever it will be called) will itself be close to 25 lakhs by 2025.

[MaheshY1]

Originally Posted by giri1.8

It has been built keeping local law coming into force, not the Euro-NCAP or any other international organization. We can't be sure if it performs well until they test it and make the results public.

Originally Posted by DieselAddikt

Wow !! That gives me some hope. Is the source of the information credible? Can you share that as well? If this is true, I would consider one for my next purchase. Please do keep us folks posted.

Here's a post from our homie Volkman10:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-s...program-4.html

In fact, the entire thread is worth a read. The Indian NCAP is a little lenient. For example, the front offset for Euro NCAP is done at 64km/h while the Indian NCAP tackles it at 56km/h as per ARAI's AIS 098 document.

For full frontal, the Euro standard is 50km/h while the Indian test standard (AIS 096) requires testing at 48.3km/h. This one is only 1.7km/h shy.

This is a great source to understand the Indian testing procedures and thresholds:
https://www.araiindia.com/passive-safety.asp

The PDFs for various tests are available online. Just Google the code e.g. AIS 096. But let me warn you, they're difficult to decipher.


For a little more understanding refer the following links:

Future Safety Norms In India Explained -- By Cyrus from NDTV Auto

How Strong Is The Maruti Suzuki Ignis? --By Jagdev from CarDekho

Is The Indian Ignis As Strong As The European Car? --By Kartikeya from ZigWheels

From what I can understand, the higher trims of the Ignis score better in Euro NCAP because of preventive safety measures.

Way
Given the iSize regulation that mandates ISOFIX for all new cars in Europe, it was encouraging to see Maruti adopt the standard before we even asked for it. Maybe because they're incredibly simple to manufacture and yet have tremendous benefits. ... and it earns Maruti extra brownie points. Because as per AIS 72, a seatbelt as an anchor for the child seat is adequate as long as it keeps the dummy baby safe during testing.

Among other revisions, the iSize regulation made child seats dummy proof by mandating ISOFIX since many parents couldn't correctly install the universal child seat that uses the regular seatbelts to secure the child seat.

My car doesn't have ISOFIX mounts, so I use the universal ECE R44-certified seat. I have thought of removing the stickers that help with the installation but decided to keep them. Because, even after removing and installing it several times, I find myself referring to the instructions. It's not straightforward.

Originally Posted by Jeevith

Very valid observations, but this bit is not really saying much. As early as 2019-20 Nexa will have a Suzuki badged version of the Corolla. If you factor in inflation, this Corolla (or whatever it will be called) will itself be close to 25 lakhs by 2025.

You got me.
Believe it or not, I made this statement about a year ago. Before the rebadging came into the picture. I had just visited the Nexa showroom to inquire about the Ignis. It was 1 or 2 weeks before Maruti announced the Nexa service center. I came to this conclusion after looking at the accessories on display. The day a car manufacturer starts selling you things you wouldn't expect to buy from a car manufacturer, you can say that they've graduated to a whole new level. It was a Nexa-branded umbrella. That day, I could see Maruti's intentions of rivaling luxury brands. Because they'll sell you anything. Like a set of "luxurious" (read: overpriced) cufflinks. Or a desk clock. Or ... whatever.

And then the intentions were confirmed with the Nexa service center press release. Most things in the release appeared unnecessary as I skimmed through it. Just the way I would expect Mercedes or Jaguar or Porsche to showcase the features. That's how you create an aura of luxury around a car. By not selling a car. By selling an experience that's worth bragging. If Maruti can do that today, I'm sure they'll only get better in a few years. The experience Baleno, Ciaz, and S-Cross owners' have today will determine how much longer they're willing to stay in the Maruti family. Because eventually, they're going to upgrade to a luxury car. It could very well be a Maruti; just that it wouldn't say it out loud.

Let me rephrase: By 2025, you'll see a Maruti Suzuki that's at least as expensive as the Camry will be in 7 years.

[searacer932]

Originally Posted by PraNeel

None of the competitors offer soft touch plastics, 4 wheel disc brakes.

You are wrong on both of these

- Honda City offers soft touch plastics in the dash.
- Yaris offers 4 wheel disc brakes.

Originally Posted by PraNeel

I prefer a stronger roof than sunroof and don't care for auto wipers or headlamps.

I prefer the same as well. But the question is how safe is the Ciaz? Did they not give a sunroof so that the structural integrity is not compromised?

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

True. The automatic is not worth considering - except for those only using inside the city.

And Maruti is greedy enough to charge 1 lac premium for this 4 speed AT

Originally Posted by MaheshY1

Mark my words, the Nexa will park a Rs 25 lakh rupee car on the showroom floor before 2025.

They parked a 17 lac car known as S-cross in 2015 . So, will not be surprised with a 25 lac car in 2025

Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator

USP of Ciaz is not pricing, it's Value.

And in it's top most trim, Alpha, Maruti has given a spare wheel which is steel and is even one size lower. This is NOT value. This = Cost Cutting.

[VWAllstar]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Premium Silver Shade, replaces Silky Silver

Attachment 1793245

Attachment 1793246

Attachment 1793247

Wow. Really this one's looks like a segment above. Really sophisticated and a looker.
Be ready to see a lot of Ciaz on the road. But I feel bad for products which are better than the Ciaz like the Rapid, Vento and Verna. Skoda is improving its post sales support but with such blind folded trust on Ciaz with such offerings I think Skoda shall lose again.

[blorebuddy]

And in it's top most trim, Alpha, Maruti has given a spare wheel which is steel and is even one size lower. This is NOT value. This = Cost Cutting.

I fail to understand. How can it be a size lower? What’s the logic?

[searacer932]

Originally Posted by blorebuddy

I fail to understand. How can it be a size lower? What’s the logic?

The standard wheels are alloys and of size 195/55 R16 whereas the spare is 185/65 R15 and is steel. Note this is in the top most trim, Alpha, which costs close to a million rupees. Logic = cost cutting and breaks the theory that people have been saying on this thread that the Ciaz is value.

[arun_josie]

Originally Posted by searacer932

The standard wheels are alloys and of size 195/55 R16 whereas the spare is 185/65 R15 and is steel. Note this is in the top most trim, Alpha, which costs close to a million rupees. Logic = cost cutting and breaks the theory that people have been saying on this thread that the Ciaz is value.

This is very common across all the segments these days. Here is the spare wheel of Skoda Octavia vRS, Puny 125/70 R18- looks like a bike tyre. Actual size is 225/45. And if I am not wrong this car is 3+ million rupees.

[searacer932]

Originally Posted by arun_josie

This is very common across all the segments these days.

It may well be common. All I am saying is that the Ciaz is not as 'value for money' as some people on this thread think it is. It's as costly as other cars in the segment for the features that Maruti have offered on the Ciaz.

[blorebuddy]

Is it ok to use this small size wheel when one of the tyre gets a puncture? Can you drive at 80 KPMH if not more with 16” on one side and 15” on another?

[prakash_ajp]

Originally Posted by blorebuddy

Is it ok to use this small size wheel when one of the tyre gets a puncture? Can you drive at 80 KPMH if not more with 16” on one side and 15” on another?

Not okay. But if you look at the given case, what the wheel lacks (1/2 inch) is somewhat compensated by the taller profile (10mm, which is close to 1/2 inch)

[rajamuneeb]

Ciaz Alpha and Verna SX are pretty much same in terms of feature list. So the enthusiasts among us can look at the Verna in the same price bracket. Feature wise it's pretty same barring a few here and there. I agree that Ciaz got a midlife refresh so seems half baked but for a car just under a million rupee mark it's not a bad product. Yes we expect Maruti to set benchmarks and they keep disappointing sometimes but overall this product will appeal to the general masses. I saw a discussion above of it having four disc brakes, but certain reviews point out that it has disc in the front and drum brakes at the rear. I personally would have loved to see a better metal sheet and additional airbags instead of all chrome and LED's. The point I am trying to make is that every product is different and all have their strengths and weaknesses. So lets see how the market responds to the new Ciaz. Will it start cannibalising the numbers from rivals or will it keep its customer share is something what the future sales report in coming months will determine.

[blackwasp]

Originally Posted by searacer932

It may well be common. All I am saying is that the Ciaz is not as 'value for money' as some people on this thread think it is. It's as costly as other cars in the segment for the features that Maruti have offered on the Ciaz.

Almost a 2 lakh rupees difference at the top trims across the segment! If thats not VFM, I don't know what it is. On-road Ciaz price will be cheaper than the competitors ex-showroom!