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Old 13th February 2020, 15:15   #76
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

As an owner of a TSI DSG I feel sad about this news. I wish such a great combination could be more popular. A 1.0 litre turbo seems pidly for a sedan.
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Old 13th February 2020, 16:41   #77
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by n:CorE View Post
A little birdie tells me that VW might just retain the DSGs for the GTs only (No DSG for Vento, perhaps a Vento GT in the works?). If so, I think it is a logical way for them to differentiate between the products and sell the high-tech stuff only to the enthusiasts who are willing to pay a premium for it. Ideally, this transmission option should also be coupled with a different/more powerful state of tune.

Again, its speculation at this point but the source where it has come from leads me to not entirely write this off.
Okay, I'd like to correct this post. After a bit more digging around, it turns out the DSG boxes in the Polo, Ameo, Vento, Rapid are indeed going to be replaced with the 6-speed torque converter unit.

Hold on to your 1.2 TSi's, Fellow BHP-ians. If you were over the fence about getting one, the time is now to book a BS4 car. I do not wish to jump the gun on discrediting the new 1.0 TSi + 6AT without even driving it. But, the 1.2 TSi as it sits is one steering wheel upgrade away from making you feel like a formula one driver. :P
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Old 13th February 2020, 19:39   #78
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

I think it's time to wake up and smell the coffee. The future of IC engines is towards turbo gdi and downsizing. I know that many people live by the mantra "there is no replacement for displacement", but that is only partially true. With newer technologies, smaller engines often outperform their larger but older counterparts. A mahindra 2.2l mHawk was much ahead than the older 2.6l. Similarly for VW itself, the much loved 1.2 TSI was 25% smaller than the 1.6 it replaced.

If we look around, 3 cylinders are getting more and more prominent across brands and segments. Hyundai has it for the Venue, XUV300 is coming up with 3 cylinder T-GDI, Honda has city in other countries with a 3 cylinder 1l T-GDI, Tata's 1.2 L petrol is a 3pot, Ford's ecoboost, Suzuki boosterjet are glaring examples for the same. 3 cylinders offer better mechanical efficiency due to lesser number of moving parts and hence lesser frictional losses and lower rotational inertia. 3 pots are the future for small engines.

Just because it's a 1L and 3pot should not be a cause for thinking it's a puny engine. The TSI is a very accomplished engine platform and amongst the best in the business across segments. If the engine is capable enough and meets or betters the outgoing engine in terms of performance, we should be a lot more open minded. In fact, being enthusiasts and better informed consumers than the average buyers, we should focus on the numbers that really matter.
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Old 13th February 2020, 22:05   #79
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by n:CorE View Post
If you were over the fence about getting one, the time is now to book a BS4 car. I do not wish to jump the gun on discrediting the new 1.0 TSi + 6AT without even driving it. But, the 1.2 TSi as it sits is one steering wheel upgrade away from making you feel like a formula one driver. :P
I am a fence sitter I don't know whether there would be an overlapping period where one can checkout the new 1.0 L AT and still get to pick one of the last few 1.2 TSI laying in their stock. This is unlikely as even now there is a waiting period for the 1.2 TSI.
Other option will be to look for an 'almost new' 1.2 TSI, if the 1.0L AT turns out to be not as good.
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Old 13th February 2020, 23:18   #80
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by Guna View Post
I am a fence sitter I don't know whether there would be an overlapping period where one can checkout the new 1.0 L AT and still get to pick one of the last few 1.2 TSI laying in their stock. This is unlikely as even now there is a waiting period for the 1.2 TSI.
Other option will be to look for an 'almost new' 1.2 TSI, if the 1.0L AT turns out to be not as good.
I doubt - 1.2TSi will most likely go away after March 31st and VW/Skoda is unlikely to launch 1.0LAT before that.
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Old 13th February 2020, 23:24   #81
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by ethanhunt123 View Post
I doubt - 1.2TSi will most likely go away after March 31st and VW/Skoda is unlikely to launch 1.0LAT before that.
Agree. Another thing I am anticipating is, the 1.0L GT may be loaded with more features (from Polo Highline). It is getting really difficult to decide now.
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Old 14th February 2020, 01:30   #82
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by Guna View Post
I am a fence sitter I don't know whether there would be an overlapping period where one can checkout the new 1.0 L AT and still get to pick one of the last few 1.2 TSI laying in their stock. This is unlikely as even now there is a waiting period for the 1.2 TSI.
Other option will be to look for an 'almost new' 1.2 TSI, if the 1.0L AT turns out to be not as good.
It is tricky. I did take the plunge with 1.8TSI which is also expected to be replaced with 1.5TSI and a new model car.

I still have the 1.2TSI and the difference in refinement (including implementation of DSG) when compared with the 1.8TSI is night and day.

I do really like the Polo GT, but it still leaves a lot to be desired. Only two reviews on team-bhp I've read so far, (one comparing with Octavia 1.8, second comparing with a Volvo) have criticized the drivability of the Polo with its DSG. I know these aren't fair comparisons, but only when you drive something better, you realise how much scope of improvement exists.

Compared to Octavia with the same DQ200, Polo's engine isn't able to handle the sharp changes in rpm the the DQ200 demands, which causes an overall jerky experience at lower speeds (no I'm not talking about the infamous DSG jerks).

Also, in the D mode, Polo is extremely poor with kick-down therefore I always drive in manual.

Again, I'm pointing out only the shortcomings of a car that is otherwise better than the competition in its segment.

Just looking at the practical drivability issues with the DSG implementation in the Polo, it may not be a loss to wait for a more powerful engine (which will bring it back into the race with the competition, which is now launching more powerful turbocharged engines), and a smooth 6 speed TC box. Therefore, at this stage a 1.2TSI should only be bought if it is at a deep discount.

Last edited by SLK : 14th February 2020 at 01:54.
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Old 14th February 2020, 09:00   #83
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by n:CorE View Post
Hold on to your 1.2 TSi's, Fellow BHP-ians. If you were over the fence about getting one, the time is now to book a BS4 car.
Well, I had called VW this week to inquire about Polo GT. Answer I got was, "Sir, we have regular Polo, if you are interested. GT versions are hard to get currently! And GT TDI is not available with any dealer."
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Old 14th February 2020, 11:37   #84
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Quote:
Originally Posted by n:CorE View Post
Hold on to your 1.2 TSi's, Fellow BHP-ians. If you were over the fence about getting one, the time is now to book a BS4 car. I do not wish to jump the gun on discrediting the new 1.0 TSi + 6AT without even driving it.
Exactly my thoughts, and hence I took the plunge and put my money where my mouth is, and got the Polo 1.2 TSI for my wife just last month .

My gut feeling is that, however good the 1.0TSI with a TC is going to be (from whatever "rave" reviews some are quoting), the probability of it being "significantly better" is much much lower than the probability of it being worse. We will know in due course. But, I think 1.2TSI are mostly sold out atleast in Bangalore, from what I heard. The January sales figures probably confirm that. Ofcourse, reliability is a different topic altogether.
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Old 14th February 2020, 14:58   #85
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

I guess hope is the thing which keeps everyone going.
So, while we all can hope that the 1.0 TSI + TC will be as good as the 1.2 TSI + DSG, the chances of that happening are very slim, if not impossible.

The 1.0 TSI with one cylinder and 200 cc less can be more powerful (on paper) with a bigger turbo but I will be surprised if it can match the refinement and drive-ability of the 1.2 TSI.
As for the gearboxes, VW themselves have said that they are replacing the DSG with TC because of cost and they want to reserve the DSG for higher-end vehicles. I like the honesty here rather than a convoluted justification. So, there's the truth from the company itself.

So, I agree whole-heartedly with the suggestion of picking up the 1.2 TSI+DSG combo NOW as you will probably not get such a good driving experience in this price range in the near future.

Also, while I like that VW is trying to increase sales and reach out to a wider base of customers, what I don't understand is how they are planning to differentiate themselves. I don't think they can price their cars lower than competition. They might be able to match the price and offer enough features but then why will people buy a VW/SKoda when there is one from Maruti/Hyundai etc?
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Old 14th February 2020, 15:44   #86
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Quote:
Originally Posted by niteshbids View Post
I think it's time to wake up and smell the coffee. The future of IC engines is towards turbo gdi and downsizing. I know that many people live by the mantra "there is no replacement for displacement", but that is only partially true. With newer technologies, smaller engines often outperform their larger but older counterparts. A mahindra 2.2l mHawk was much ahead than the older 2.6l. Similarly for VW itself, the much loved 1.2 TSI was 25% smaller than the 1.6 it replaced.
Hope people realise the same sooner. Remove the turbo out of diesel engines, they are highly polluting, low on power and low on fuel efficiency as well. The TSI's can provide more peppy performances and efficiency almost on par with turbo-diesels in smaller displacement engine. I wish Turbo direct injection was the norm in BS-4 era itself and guess who has an edge here? VW group with excellent TSI engines. I have a 1.6 MPI bought in 2019 but it would be a TSI for the regular drives soon for me.

Chances are they might price the current ones almost equally to diesel. The choice of the gearbox is another part though.
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Old 14th February 2020, 16:30   #87
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Many of the folks don't know the difference between DSG, TC and AMT. For them all are just automatic transmissions. When a swift with AMT is seen as equal to polo with DSG, it really makes it difficult for VW to compete. In layman terms "19-20 ka farak hai".
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Old 14th February 2020, 18:13   #88
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

My experience with automatic cars is quite short -

Nano AMT: ~500kms within the city
Polo GT TSi: ~ 300kms within the city
Vento TSi: ~1000kms on the highway, ~100kms within the city
Nexon AMT: ~100kms within the city

While having absolutely no doubts on it's highway performance, I cannot say that I was blown away with the city driveability of the 1.2 TSi-DSG. At crawling speeds the engine felt coarse and the gear shifts (speed and quality) were almost similar to my experience on the Nexon AMT. In fact, I though the Nexon was more at home doing the Bangalore's famous traffic-jam speeds than the Polo.

This makes me wonder, is ditching the 1.2TSi-DSG combo such a bad thing considering a 70% city, 30% highway driving cycle? IMO, if the cost and reliability factors are considered in the calculation, the 1.0TSi-TC might just become the next big thing from VW-Skoda India.
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Old 14th February 2020, 19:11   #89
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by Porschefire View Post
While having absolutely no doubts on it's highway performance, I cannot say that I was blown away with the city driveability of the 1.2 TSi-DSG. At crawling speeds the engine felt coarse and the gear shifts (speed and quality) were almost similar to my experience on the Nexon AMT. In fact, I though the Nexon was more at home doing the Bangalore's famous traffic-jam speeds than the Polo.
I don't know if it could be a valid point or relevant but I think there is a thing with DSG equipped vehicles that it needs proper maintenance. So, I had taken a TD of an Ameo TDi which left me super disappointed, it was exactly the same as you stated but then I drove a friend's vehicle it was different, extremely better than the TD vehicle and his car was serviced just 1000 kms before. Furthermore, I drove multiple friend's GT TSi and there was again this same thing and then the most recent experience was in Octavia TSi as well. Hence, would suggest you to again drive a different TSi, it might change your view.
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Old 15th February 2020, 01:19   #90
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

This is what VW India director, Mr. Steffen Knapp had to say. It seems that the regular trims might be getting the torque converter AT as an option as well.



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